TB's top line

[brelic]

You could make the argument that TB's top line is Johnson (64pts), Kucherov (56pts), and Palat (52pts). Johnson is ahead of Stamkos.

 

Johnson is 24 and was undrafted.

 

Kucherov is 21 and a 2nd round pick.

 

Palat is 23 and a 7th round pick.

 

Meanwhile, we can barely get 5th overall Schenn and 8th overall Couturier to produce. 

 

No real point to this thread other than jealousy at other team's drafting, scouting, and production with (on paper) lesser assets.

 

 

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

Sure, and Voracek 8th overall and Read Free Agent and Mark Streit (Free Agent acquired for 4th round pick) are outproducing Stamkos 1st  Drouin 3rd and Hedman 1st

[brelic]

@brelic

 

Sure, and Voracek 8th overall and Read Free Agent and Mark Streit (Free Agent acquired for 4th round pick) are outproducing Stamkos 1st  Drouin 3rd and Hedman 1st

 

Voracek and Streit were not our picks, nor were they developed by this team.

 

I'll give you Matt Read. He was a solid find. He peaked two years ago at 47 points, but gives us solid 3rd line / PK minutes.

 

If we were to actually compare these three, though, regardless of who developed them, I would take Stamkos, Drouin, and Hedman 10 times out of 10.

[flyercanuck]

So you'd take a 1st overall, a 3rd overall and a 2nd overall over our trades and FAs? Me too. Tampa got some great pieces by absolutely sucking. Take those 3 off Tampa, throw them on the Flyers and the two teams basically swap places. Imagine Giroux and Voracek feeding Stamkos? Or a real #1 defenceman who we'd have his entire career? What a novel idea. 

[brelic]

So you'd take a 1st overall, a 3rd overall and a 2nd overall over our trades and FAs? Me too. Tampa got some great pieces by absolutely sucking. Take those 3 off Tampa, throw them on the Flyers and the two teams basically swap places. Imagine Giroux and Voracek feeding Stamkos? Or a real #1 defenceman who we'd have his entire career? What a novel idea. 

 

Sure... that's not exactly what I was saying, though. I think we got our wires crossed.

 

I was just expressing my jealousy for Tampa's drafting and development outside of the top level picks, and those three guys in particular. 

 

We have Giroux, Couturier and Rinaldo on our team that have been drafted and developed by us. You can include Raffl, Read, and Bellemare as guys that were scouted by us. None of those guys are Tyler Johnson, though And all three are completely replaceable. 

 

The fact that their undrafted guy, their 2nd round pick, and their 7th round pick are outperforming (at least offensively) Couturier and B Schenn, for example, by a wide margin has me jealous of their team for sure. I wish we could do the same. 

 

But they didn't give me the controls I wonder if they even looked at my CV.

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

Philly just needs to stop trading their picks away...and their prospects before they develop. And stop chasing the FA whose best years are behind. I think (I hope) Hextall is on the right track. Meanwhile we have fans who think playing 5 or 6 playoff games is more beneficial than a top ten bluechip prospect in this draft, or that we should trade away some of our young guys cause they haven't developed yet. You'd think fans of this organization would be sick of watching guys become good players on other teams.

[Cheesesteak]

 Or a real #1 defenceman who we'd have his entire career? What a novel idea. 

They're coming!     Phinally

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

***Thread bump***

 

Technically, The Triplets line (Johnson, Kucherov, Palat) is the Bolts' 2nd line...but based on these playoffs (and truthfully, most of the season) these guys have PLAYED like the top line.

 

The Lightning have been trying to get a player to work seamlessly with Steven Stamkos ever since MSL was traded.

Oh, Stamkos has still played well enough to warrant his top six minutes and players such as Filppula, Killorn, and Callahan being linemates for him at various times has worked well, but the overall consistency for Stamkos' "top line" simply hasn't been there....and hasn't been consistent even in the playoffs.

 

That said, last season, Stamkos did VERY well as a WINGER on a line centered by Tyler Johnson.

Thus, Coach Cooper has moved Stamkos to wing for the remainder of the playoffs (at least, last I checked)....but that top line has been centered by Valteri Filppula.

 

I propose the Bolts promote Tyler Johnson to top line center, Ondrej Palat to top line winger, have Stamkos as a wing as well, then for the 2nd line, have that one centered by Valteri Filppula, with Callahan and Kucherov as his wingers.

 

Break up the Triplets? Crazy you say?

Well, they are good enough to play with each other, or others as they have shown throughout the season.

Stamkos plays best when he has a winger who he almost has ESP with.

He had that with VLC and MSL previously, he had that with Johnson and Palat last season....I say, reunite Stammer with Johnson and Palat and THAT will be the top line for the Lightning.

 

Kucherov will be just fine with Filppula and Callahan as his 2nd linemates (and if Filppula doesn't work as the 2C, make Vladislav Namestnikov the 2C).

That's the thing for Jon Cooper...with this lineup, he has LOTS of choices and lots of ways he can go....but if the primary goal is to maximize Stamkos on the top line, then I believe Johnson and Palat would do that.

[jammer2]

  You will know who the top line is by who lines up against them when the Rangers have last change...

[jammer2]

I'll give you Matt Read.

 

 Wow, did Read ever regress last year. I still hold out a faint hope there is some 3rd line scoring in there somewhere....but he is signed for 3 more years at 3.5 mill, which will be a real nice deal in a year or so, judging by how salaries have escalated of late. Even if the pts don't come in bunches, 3.5 for a respectable winger in the bottom six will become the norm quicker than people think.

[J0e Th0rnton]

***Thread bump***

 

Technically, The Triplets line (Johnson, Kucherov, Palat) is the Bolts' 2nd line...but based on these playoffs (and truthfully, most of the season) these guys have PLAYED like the top line.

 

The Lightning have been trying to get a player to work seamlessly with Steven Stamkos ever since MSL was traded.

Oh, Stamkos has still played well enough to warrant his top six minutes and players such as Filppula, Killorn, and Callahan being linemates for him at various times has worked well, but the overall consistency for Stamkos' "top line" simply hasn't been there....and hasn't been consistent even in the playoffs.

 

That said, last season, Stamkos did VERY well as a WINGER on a line centered by Tyler Johnson.

Thus, Coach Cooper has moved Stamkos to wing for the remainder of the playoffs (at least, last I checked)....but that top line has been centered by Valteri Filppula.

 

I propose the Bolts promote Tyler Johnson to top line center, Ondrej Palat to top line winger, have Stamkos as a wing as well, then for the 2nd line, have that one centered by Valteri Filppula, with Callahan and Kucherov as his wingers.

 

Break up the Triplets? Crazy you say?

Well, they are good enough to play with each other, or others as they have shown throughout the season.

Stamkos plays best when he has a winger who he almost has ESP with.

He had that with VLC and MSL previously, he had that with Johnson and Palat last season....I say, reunite Stammer with Johnson and Palat and THAT will be the top line for the Lightning.

 

Kucherov will be just fine with Filppula and Callahan as his 2nd linemates (and if Filppula doesn't work as the 2C, make Vladislav Namestnikov the 2C).

That's the thing for Jon Cooper...with this lineup, he has LOTS of choices and lots of ways he can go....but if the primary goal is to maximize Stamkos on the top line, then I believe Johnson and Palat would do that.

I hate that idea. The triplets line has chemistry and is doing it's job. Why break it up to get one player going? If anything, I am shocked Drouin is not being given a shot. Yes he is raw, but he oozes offensive talent and has high end skill. He makes some hot dogging mistakes, but when I see Morrow out there, I still go.....WHY? But Drouin needs other high skilled players to be as effective and see what he is doing. Kinda catch 22 with the top 6 or don't bother playing him.

 

If anything, ensure the Hedman/Stralman pairing is out with Stamkos line. Offense from the blueline + Stamkos, while the triplets line gets Garrison/Coburn? In reality, Cooper has options even in away games based on how the opposing coach decides to line match. The triplets line should effectively be treated like the first line, but no coach wants to put his best checkers out knowing Stamkos is on another line.

 

Alternatively, they could move one of the triplets wingers to Stamkos' line. Perhaps Palat. Choices choices. I would definitely keep Johnson and Stammer on different lines in away games when the opposing coach has last change, if only to confound matcups. Johnson and Stammer on the same line basically makes the lineup match simple for the opposing coach. In home games with last change, hell yes Cooper should see the Rags 4th line go out and then throw Stamkos/Johnson out together

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

Well, while I still say what I proposed can work (Coach Cooper HAS done it before...with success), I must admit, that you, sir, make a LOT of sense with your proposals as well.

Particularly with different lineup depending on whether the Lightning have last change or not.

 

Especially with keeping Stamkos and Johnson separate on road games.

It did occur to me after I posted that putting those two on the same line in road games may make the opposing coaches line matching easier while keeping them separate forces the opposition to make harder choices.

 

Good stuff, Joe!

[flyercanuck]

 Wow, did Read ever regress last year. I still hold out a faint hope there is some 3rd line scoring in there somewhere....but he is signed for 3 more years at 3.5 mill, which will be a real nice deal in a year or so, judging by how salaries have escalated of late. Even if the pts don't come in bunches, 3.5 for a respectable winger in the bottom six will become the norm quicker than people think.

 

Read played with a high ankle sprain...he gets a pass unless he plays as bad this year, which I doubt. Getting Umberger off that line can only improve his points as well.

[yave1964]

@TropicalFruitGirl26

 

Johnson has had a coming out party of sorts in this postseason while Stamkos has taken the Rick Nash Invisible man approach. They need to get Stamkos going to get past the stifling Rangers defense.

 

  To me however the top six will work themselves out hard to believe that the player they need to come back and play at the top of his game is Boyle, a 4th liner but he shuts other teams top lines down, takes defensive zone faceoffs with the best of them and kills penalties, making you account for him out of fear of him stealing the puck and getting a breakway.

So shuffle the top six how you need to (my personal thought is Palat, Johnson and Stamkos are almost unstoppable if you put them together) but they desperately need Boyle back more than anything. Give the man a raise.

[OccamsRazor]

Tampa''s reason they lost game 6???

 

[jammer2]

  The fact that Tyler Johnson went undrafted, WOW...if I'm a rich team like the Leafs or Flyers, I immediately hire 3 or 4 more scouts and give them a mission..... GO FIND THE NEXT JOHNSON!!