Your all-time all-NHL team.

[ScottM]

Since we had a discussion about the greatest players in each franchise, I thought it might be fun to do the same thing for the NHL as a whole. In mine, I chose four lines, three defensive pairs and three goalies. The goalies were definitely the hardest part. Anyway, here it is:

 

First line: Bobby Hull, Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe

Second line: Alexander Ovechkin, Mario Lemieux, Mike Bossy

Third line: Frank Mahovlich, Jean Beliveau, Jaromir Jagr

Fourth line: Luc Robitaille, Phil Esposito, Maurice Richard

 

First defensive pair: Bobby Orr, Nicklas Lidstrom

Second defensive pair: Doug Harvey, Raymond Bourque

Third defensive pair: Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson

 

Goalies: Dominik Hasek, Jacques Plantes, Glenn Hall

 

Again, the goalies were tough. I'm not even sure that I'm 100% sold that that's my trio. Anyway, anyone else want to jump in?

[JackStraw]

@ScottM - I like your team. I might have a few different choices-

 

At the risk of sounding like a homer I think I would go with Bobby Clarke over Phil Esposito. Much better playmaker and much better defensively. I would go with Forsberg over Big Phil too, for the same reasons. Maybe Stan Mikita too. Esposito was just too one dimensional for me.

 

I can't think of a name off the top of my head, and I know Robitaille had the career numbers, but I just think there's a better choice at LW there. But I don't have anyone specific in mind.

 

In goal, I would have Sawchuk over Hall. But goalie is a tough one.

[ScottM]

@ScottM - I like your team. I might have a few different choices-

 

At the risk of sounding like a homer I think I would go with Bobby Clarke over Phil Esposito. Much better playmaker and much better defensively. I would go with Forsberg over Big Phil too, for the same reasons. Maybe Stan Mikita too. Esposito was just too one dimensional for me.

 

I can't think of a name off the top of my head, and I know Robitaille had the career numbers, but I just think there's a better choice at LW there. But I don't have anyone specific in mind.

 

In goal, I would have Sawchuk over Hall. But goalie is a tough one.

 

I wouldn't call you a homer. I considered both Clarke and Mikita. There were a lot of guys to choose from. At left wing, it was a lot different, though. There's not the historical depth there that there is at center and right wing.I considered Shanny and Bucyk, but Robitaille just impressed me a little more. Of course, if Mess had remained at LW, it would've been a no-brainer.

[JagerMeister]

I didn't notice this thread before.

First line

Bobby Hull, Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe

Second Line

Ted Lindsay, Mario Lemieux, Maurice Richard

Third Line

Alexander Ovechkin, Jean Beliveau, Jaromir Jagr

Fourth Line

Frank Mahovlich, Stan Mikita, Guy Lafleur

1st defensive pair

Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque

2nd defensive pair

Nicklas Lidstrom, Doug Harvey

3rd defensive pair

Eddie Shore, Denis Potvin

Goalies

Dominik Hasek, Jacques Plante, Patrick Roy

HM: Glenn Hall, Larry Robinson, Howie Lorenz, C helios, Brendan Shanahan

Yea, Im not sure if anyone will agree with at least half my choices. Sure as hell won't agree with Ovechkin...

Ps if I somehow misread the question. Then I would have replaced the fourth line with Valeri k harlamov and sergei makarov, and I refused to put Messier in....

Not sure I thought this one through...

[WordsOfWisdom]

Since we had a discussion about the greatest players in each franchise, I thought it might be fun to do the same thing for the NHL as a whole. In mine, I chose four lines, three defensive pairs and three goalies. The goalies were definitely the hardest part. Anyway, here it is:

 

First line: Bobby Hull, Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe

Second line: Alexander Ovechkin, Mario Lemieux, Mike Bossy

Third line: Frank Mahovlich, Jean Beliveau, Jaromir Jagr

Fourth line: Luc Robitaille, Phil Esposito, Maurice Richard

 

First defensive pair: Bobby Orr, Nicklas Lidstrom

Second defensive pair: Doug Harvey, Raymond Bourque

Third defensive pair: Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson

 

Goalies: Dominik Hasek, Jacques Plantes, Glenn Hall

 

Again, the goalies were tough. I'm not even sure that I'm 100% sold that that's my trio. Anyway, anyone else want to jump in?

 

Your team is too soft. Lots of skill, but not built for the clutching, grabbing, bullying, no rules style that is the NHL playoffs.

 

I would dump some of the flowers you have on your lower lines and replace them with:

• Marty McSorley
• Tie Domi
• Tiger Williams
• Eric Lindros
• Zdeno Chara
• Scott Stevens
• Rob Blake

For goalies:

• Hasek
• Roy
• Brodeur

(I want big goalies with big equipment from the modern era where goalies are the best they have ever been.)

 

[jammer2]

  Always tough to do this type of a thread, I like a lot of Scott's picks.....but I must say, somehow, someway...I would find a way to include Marcel Dionne.

 

 

 AND...as much as I like Denis Potvin as a player (NOT an announcer!)....I think Serge Savard was all round better than him, just a personal thing of mine.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Can I make a list of players I have seen play a lot? I dislike ranking too many players I have not seen, mostly because I need to do it from a standpoint of other people's opinions instead of having seen a bunch of their games.

 

And, well, we have a bunch of people today who claim Lidstrom is better than Bourque and count his trophies, yet so many of them never saw Bourque play or saw the relative lack of superstars and supporting players the Bruins had. I take major exception lol.

 

Or people today who claim Bergeron is better than Neely was, etc

[ruxpin]

And, well, we have a bunch of people today who claim Lidstrom is better than Bourque and count his trophies, yet so many of them never saw Bourque play or saw the relative lack of superstars and supporting players the Bruins had. I take major exception lol.

 

I really liked Bourque.  At least from the standpoint that a fan of an opposing team could.  I put Lindstrom above him, but it's close.   It's the people who say "hands down"  that make me think they're gripping a little too hard while the hands are down.

 

Bergeron is a nice player.   He's no Cam Neely.

 

@ScottM    I like your list as is.  I'm with @JagerMeister with his dislike for Ovechkin and might switch him out just for personal dislike.  But objectively, I guess he needs to be there.

 

I also might switch Espo for Clarke, but that's a tough call.   I don't think it's clear cut, but I'm fine leaving Espo.

[JackStraw]

Can I make a list of players I have seen play a lot? I dislike ranking too many players I have not seen, mostly because I need to do it from a standpoint of other people's opinions instead of having seen a bunch of their games.

 

And, well, we have a bunch of people today who claim Lidstrom is better than Bourque and count his trophies, yet so many of them never saw Bourque play or saw the relative lack of superstars and supporting players the Bruins had. I take major exception lol.

 

Or people today who claim Bergeron is better than Neely was, etc

 

I've seen Lidstrom, and Bourque (and Orr and Robinson and Potvin and Park) and I would put Lidstrom behind only Orr, and then Bourque. Lidstrom just did everything so well. He wasn't as dynamic as Orr or Coffey but his hockey IQ was off the charts.

[Podein25]

Lidstrom just did everything so well. He wasn't as dynamic as Orr or Coffey but his hockey IQ was off the charts.

 

 

Yeah, he went to where the puck was going to be. Few players not named Gretzky did that like Lidstrom.

[AJgoal]

I'm no good at coming up with an actual answer for this sort of thing, so I'd like to offer:

 

Lang Lang Lang

Lang Lang Lang

Lang Lang Lang

Lang Lang Lang

 

Lang Lang

Lang Lang

Lang Lang

 

Lang

Lang

[ruxpin]

I'm no good at coming up with an actual answer for this sort of thing, so I'd like to offer:

 

Lang Lang Lang

Lang Lang Lang

Lang Lang Lang

Lang Lang Lang

 

Lang Lang

Lang Lang

Lang Lang

 

Lang

Lang

 

But what about Lang?

[peter puck]

Hull-Gretzky-Howe

Robitaille-Lemieux-Jagr

Bucyk-Messier-Selanne

Ovie-Lindros(Crosby)- LaFluer

Orr-Lidstrom

Borque-Chara

Coffey-Stevens

Broduer

Hasek

Roy

[Podein25]

My all-time all #25 all Flyers team

 

Podein Primeau Thoresen

Podein Zezel Adams

Podein Acton White 

Podein Talbot Kovalenko (!)

 

Carle Duchesne

Barnes McCarthy

Finley Joseph

[J0e Th0rnton]

I've seen Lidstrom, and Bourque (and Orr and Robinson and Potvin and Park) and I would put Lidstrom behind only Orr, and then Bourque. Lidstrom just did everything so well. He wasn't as dynamic as Orr or Coffey but his hockey IQ was off the charts.

Hey, it can be close. I think Lidstrom gets massively overrated though. Bourque's hockey IQ was near the same level defensively(usually with much worse partners and backchecking forwards) and his offensive IQ was miles ahead. Lidstrom was good, but not in the same level offensively. His point totals and cups came on a largely stacked team and PP from top to bottom with hall of famers.

[JagerMeister]

Hull-Gretzky-Howe

Robitaille-Lemieux-Jagr

Bucyk-Messier-Selanne

Ovie-Lindros(Crosby)- LaFluer

Orr-Lidstrom

Borque-Chara

Coffey-Stevens

Broduer

Hasek

Roy

You live in Florida yet your not a panthers fan? Treachery!!!

 

So thats why Luongo wanted a trade to Florida...

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

You live in Florida yet your not a panthers fan? Treachery!!!

 

So thats why Luongo wanted a trade to Florida...

 

That and Florida's tax breaks for the rich. Only 40% lol.

[JagerMeister]

Your team is too soft. Lots of skill, but not built for the clutching, grabbing, bullying, no rules style that is the NHL playoffs.

 

I would dump some of the flowers you have on your lower lines and replace them with:

• Marty McSorley
• Tie Domi
• Tiger Williams
• Eric Lindros
• Zdeno Chara
• Scott Stevens
• Rob Blake

For goalies:

• Hasek
• Roy
• Brodeur

(I want big goalies with big equipment from the modern era where goalies are the best they have ever been.)

 

A team that consists of Howe, Richard, Mahovlich, Esposito, Bourque, Potvin, Robinson, Orr and Ovechkin is far from soft. And then you got guys like Jagr and Lemieux who took so many physical abuse yet it was not enough to stop those two.

[WordsOfWisdom]

I still think my dream team would knock everyone's team around, dish out concussions, make them wet their pants and flee in terror, and would all-around dominate.

 

Case in point: Everyone picked Gretzky, but only I added McSorley (to ride shotgun and protect #99).

 

On D, look at my defencemen: Scott Stevens said knock you ouuuuuuuuuuuuuut! Chara (in his prime) would tie up any of those midgets, hook and hold them into oblivion with his 200ft reach, and dummy anyone foolish enough to challenge him physically.

 

I like the historical players a lot too, but they don't match up well to today's players (in any sport). 

[ScottM]

I like the historical players a lot too, but they don't match up well to today's players (in any sport). 

 

But, if they grew up in today's era, they'd have the same advantages that today's players have. That's one of the biggest reasons it's hard to compare different eras. If Gretzky had played in the 1920's, people would make the same comments about him.

[WordsOfWisdom]

But, if they grew up in today's era, they'd have the same advantages that today's players have. That's one of the biggest reasons it's hard to compare different eras. If Gretzky had played in the 1920's, people would make the same comments about him.

 

This is true. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

I still think my dream team would knock everyone's team around, dish out concussions, make them wet their pants and flee in terror, and would all-around dominate.

 

Case in point: Everyone picked Gretzky, but only I added McSorley (to ride shotgun and protect #99).

 

On D, look at my defencemen: Scott Stevens said knock you ouuuuuuuuuuuuuut! Chara (in his prime) would tie up any of those midgets, hook and hold them into oblivion with his 200ft reach, and dummy anyone foolish enough to challenge him physically.

 

I like the historical players a lot too, but they don't match up well to today's players (in any sport). 

I disagree. Talent is talent. Some guys can evolve like mad and compete. MMA evolved faster than any other sport ever has due to its late start( early 1990's) and ability of worldwide training, videotape gameplanning. The sport completely changed between early 90's and late 90's. Then changed again every year as more and more fighters evolved and learned from the best and refined their training.

 

The difference between MMA in 1997 and 2003 alone looks more different than Hockey from 1960 and today. MMA from 2003 compared to 2008 looks like an entirely different sport.

 

Yet some fighters were constantly able to evolve with the sport, despite their physical limitations. Randy Couture most obviously. Won a UFC heavyweight championship in 97. 2 losses in a row At age 39, decided to move down a weight class to light heavyweight. Everyone thought he was done. Then he unthinkably smashed Chuck Liddell to become #1 contender, and then Tito Ortiz to become first champ in 2 weight classes. Retired in 2006. Decided to come back for a shot at the heavyweight title in 2007 against a man 7 inches taller and 80 pounds heavier. Beat the CRAP out of him for 5 rounds, shocking the world. At age 45!

 

Talent is talent.

 

Gretzky was an unbelieveable talent. Never the same after certain injuries in the early 90's. But still stupid good just because of his innate talent even though he was outmatched physically and just not as strong and fast as the young guys. Still leading the league in assists and top 3-4 in scoring in 2 of his last 3 years despite the large changes to the game and his deteriorating physical stature.

 

Lemieux was the same when he came back as a gimpy old man with a bad back from retirement. Still obviously better than the rest.

 

I mentioned Bourque and Lidstrom earlier in a VS sense, but both of them are great examples too. Just amazing players for long periods and evolving game time. The younger, bigger new age guns in better shape with no wear and tear still were mostly not close to as good as either of them even when they were ready to retire.

 

The MMA scene has gotten into a boring, win by points play it safe mentality these days. 3-5 rounds of wall and stall and lay and pray half the time. Fighting not to lose instead of fighting to win. Hockey is the same in some ways. Individual talent is being curtailed for the safer system play and quick line changes.

[WordsOfWisdom]

The MMA scene has gotten into a boring, win by points play it safe mentality these days. 3-5 rounds of wall and stall and lay and pray half the time. Fighting not to lose instead of fighting to win. Hockey is the same in some ways. Individual talent is being curtailed for the safer system play and quick line changes.

 

I like K-1.  It's pure standup striking. No clutching and grabbing like UFC. I always think the fighters look silly laying on top of each other. Good way to get killed in a real street fight with multiple opponents when his friend walks over and soccer kicks the guy in the head. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

I like K-1.  It's pure standup striking. No clutching and grabbing like UFC. I always think the fighters look silly laying on top of each other. Good way to get killed in a real street fight with multiple opponents when his friend walks over and soccer kicks the guy in the head. 

I was a fan of Pride and K1. K1 in the days of Ernesto Hoost anyways. Talk about smooth. One thing I hate about MMA these days is how kicks tend to only be used the way a boxer uses a jab. Lead kick to set up punches. In K1, without the threat of a takedown, kicks were used more as a finishing blow to a combination like a Boxers hook. You set up the kick. Ernesto Hoost was a smooth smooth man at those transitions.

 

 

Pride had less clutching and grabbing too. Yellow carding fighters for being boring costing them a percentage of their fight purse will do that lol.

 

That and aggresive fighters in pride knew how to corner people using the ring. The lack of extreme corners in the octagon makes cornering impossible. It favors elusive backpedalling counterstrikers as opposed to aggresive strikers.

 

 

The UFC really needs to do away with their formula of "X is you show for the fight, double X if you win" and give more finishing bonuses as opposed to winning bonuses.

[peter puck]

@JagerMeister

I grew up in New Jersey. I live about 30 miles from Tampa and I'm not a Bolt Fan,although with company season tickets I've seen them many times. Ice hockey is more of a social event around these here parts.