King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Meanwhile, Scott Hartnell scores his 20 goal of the year. That's 8 seasons of 20 goals for him. Sure glad he was traded for RJ... (Ninja) If Hartnell could have been traded for a bag of pucks he would have been and that is not about his abilities or not wanting him. This is all purely about Hartnell's contract being two years longer than Umberger's and the fact that there are going to be multiple players needing new deals around that time. I wish Hextall had held out and tried to get not someone better, but someone with an even shorter contract than Umberger... but he had to do something. The VLC and MacDonald contracts Homer left on Hexy's table really screwed him and if Coots and Schenn in particular and now probably Del Zotto develop anywhere near to what we'd like them to, Hexy's going to have a major cap issue and could end up having to sacrifice one of the younger guys that we'd really want to keep because he can't move the old bloated absurd contracts of the useless Chill and Billers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 He may want to consider hanging them up at this point. I think we have to give him a chance to rehab from this injury and surgery and see if he can be a hockey player again.What I can't for the life of my figure out is how on earth Hextall didn't just force him to have the surgery right away.They knew he had this injury in Columbus. Was he trying to put it off til he retired like Lappy and his nose?I jsut can't figure out how hextall didn't just tell him to have the surgery right away and LTIR him. Failing that, do it in December or January when it was painfully obvious that Umberger couldn't play. We all just thought he sucked, but Hextall knew that he was injured and playing for the last who knows how many years with this injury. Why not call it and get it fixed and at least get the LTIR cap room back? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There were absolutely more than a handful of people. There were some -- I think I was one -- that was okay with the contract trade. I wasn't okay with the player-for-player part despite not being a big fan of Hartnell. Anyone who was okay with it player for player was either crazy, high or delusionally optimistic. It was always a contract trade and that was always obvious. Trying to hope for some up side to Umberger is natural, I don't think anyone of us could have expected him to be this bad. I will say that I am hopeful on a number of players who stunk last year that starting the year without a chronic injury that only heals with surgery and months of rehab, and playing under a coach not named Berube will greatly benefit their games. I fully expect to see more respectable games from Umberger, Reed, VLC, MacDonald and Luke Schenn. It's hard to imagine that lot playing less respectably than they did last year, but seeing how much Coburn's game lifted once not playing for a Pee Wee coach gives me hope that the holes in the game plan I saw all season were demonstratively coaching holes that were made worse by ailing or inferior players. I'm not saying any of these guys will be good (though I actually have hope for MacDonald--though he'll never earn his contract--and Luke) but I do think they'll look more like NHL players this year. If not Hextall needs to politely ask them to move along and start the celebrity golf tour portion of their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If Hartnell could have been traded for a bag of pucks he would have been and that is not about his abilities or not wanting him. This is all purely about Hartnell's contract being two years longer than Umberger's and the fact that there are going to be multiple players needing new deals around that time. I wish Hextall had held out and tried to get not someone better, but someone with an even shorter contract than Umberger... but he had to do something. The VLC and MacDonald contracts Homer left on Hexy's table really screwed him and if Coots and Schenn in particular and now probably Del Zotto develop anywhere near to what we'd like them to, Hexy's going to have a major cap issue and could end up having to sacrifice one of the younger guys that we'd really want to keep because he can't move the old bloated absurd contracts of the useless Chill and Billers.Just as well they could have kept Hartnell and traded him this offseason too...his value was just as likely to have been the same...and they might of had a better year with him who knows...RJ was damaged goods anyways......bottom line is Chief didn't like him and after a not so good playoff performance...someone needed to be the fall guy...no pun intended.I understand the need to get a shorter contract but it also didn't have to be done last offseason.I guess my best way of explaining it is i was ok with trading Hartnell just like JVR...but also like JVR i just didn't like the return...Flyers got f**ked in both deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 he had to do something. He "had to do something" eventually, yes, but there was absolutely no need "have to" make that deal when he made it. The cap savings until the last two years are minimal and there was plenty of time to deal Hartnell for potentially more than a hobbled guy with his own bad contract. They gambled that Umburglar would be close to the player he once was and, for now at least, lost badly. And gave up their top line LW in the process. It could be that Umburglar comes back this season and plays at something approaching effective. And it could be that they gave away a top line LW for nothing but LTIR cap space or savings three years down the road. Hextall knew that he was injured and playing for the last who knows how many years with this injury. Hextall has gone both ways on whether or not they knew he was injured. Essentially they knew he was injured before they had no idea he was injured and then they never knew he was injured in the first place. Or something. Not a great start for Hexy, but when you're starting as far behind as #homercoaster left the team, you gotta start somewhere. We can give him a pass, but I'll wager he would prefer a mulligan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 this offseason too or any trade deadline.I guess the fear was that Hartnell was nearing the end of his usefulness as the game seemed to be shifting and better to get what you could for him (even if all that was was getting his cap hit off the books two years earlier) while you could before he became as unmovable as Vinny. Then again who the hell knows. That anyone would do anything because Chief didn't like him terrifies me. That they ever put Chief in a head coaching position is outright and abjectly horrific. Train wreck management there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hextall has gone both ways on whether or not they knew he was injured. Essentially they knew he was injured before they had no idea he was injured and then they never knew he was injured in the first place. They knew he was injured. Columbus knew he was injured and if Columbus knew and we didn't the deal gets voided and we get Hartnell back or at the very least Columbus gets in serious trouble and has to pay something or other. Hexy knew. I'm sorry, even in his hay day (such as it was), no one goes out of there way to trade a Scotty Hartnell FOR RJ Umberger just to get RJ Umberger. The effin flyers were a G.D. retirement home for useless players at and coaches last year, god willing Haksy and Hexy can do something about that this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It's a stretch, but seeing as how RJ played College (Ohio State) maybe Coah Hakstol looks at him differently, gets more out of him. I know the world doesn't really work that way, but sometimes, all it takes is a connection between a coach and a player. If the surgeries helped his mobility (he used to be a terrific skater) and he gets a new lease on life, who knows? He could pot 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'd be happy if he got 40 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I guess the fear was that Hartnell was nearing the end of his usefulness as the game seemed to be shifting and better to get what you could for him One season after the same franchise extended him for six years. #homercoaster Columbus had already determined that the game had passed Umburglar by. They got a top line left winger. The Flyers got the shaft. Hexy knew. It depends on what he says he "knew" and when he said he knew it. Here's the Flyers after Umburglar was shut down: The Flyers knew about the condition, Hextall said, when they acquired Umberger and a 2015 fourth-round draft pick from Columbus last June for Scott Hartnell."This didn't come out of the blue. It was inevitable last summer," Hextall said. "We knew at the end of the year he would be getting surgery. It's one of those things where you lean on the player. If he's in too much pain and can't perform and you feel like his performance isn't helping, then it's like: 'OK, let's shut him down and get him ready for next year.' " He "knew" about the cam lesions on the hip but "guys can play through it" - it was the abdominal tear that he "didn't" know about and Umburglar never told anyone about so he could keep playing like a pile of warmed over dingo's kidneys. OK, fine. But here's the Flyers to Meltzer in November, 2014 All parties insist that Umberger is fully healthy. Last season, he was a "semi-healthy" scratch in Columbus several times during the regular season. What is known is that Umberger played through the Blue Jackets' first-round playoff series loss to the Pittsburgh Penguins with a broken finger, separated shoulder and herniated disc, according to a post-series report in the Columbus Dispatch.At the time of the trade that brought Umberger back to Philadelphia, Hextall said the player passed his physical and was in sound health. During training camp, Umberger himself said he felt strong and healthy. There have been no mentions of potential physical issues now that the season has started. So, again, they didn't know he was injured when they traded for him until they did know he was injured when they traded for him. No amount of shinola is turning this turd into a diamond. The only hope is that Umburglar magically turns his game around. At the age of 33. Pretty much the same thing they are hoping about Lecavalier. #homercoaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'd be happy if he got 40 points I'd be happy if he got 30 and had some good possession numbers. Others would be pleased if he fell in the shower, hit his head, had an aneurysm and died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 They got a top line left winger. The Flyers got the shaft. He "knew" about the cam lesions on the hip but "guys can play through it" - it was the abdominal tear that he "didn't" know about and Umburglar never told anyone about so he could keep playing like a pile of warmed over dingo's kidneys. OK, fine. But here's the Flyers to Meltzer in November, 2014 So, again, they didn't know he was injured when they traded for him until they did know he was injured when they traded for him. No amount of shinola is turning this turd into a diamond. The only hope is that Umburglar magically turns his game around. At the age of 33. Pretty much the same thing they are hoping about Lecavalier. #homercoaster The Flyers got the shaft with Homer's ridiculous contracts. This deal just enabled them to resign a few more guys a bit more easily in 2-4 years when a bunch of RFA contracts will likely be up and guys like Schenn and Coots will likely be jumping from 2 million to 4-5 million range (if we're lucky and they're playing like big boys). It's not pretty. If it had been me, I'd have dished a few other guys before Hartsy because of his intangibles alone, but it wasn't me and who knows what deals Hexy couldn't make happen at that point. You're right. This turd will never be a diamond. I'm not sure who thinks that. They'd be delusional and I envy their imagination. It's not a diamond. It's a cold hard reality. It's up for debate which is better. Having Hartnell in 3 years and hoping you can figure something out or having Coots and Schenn in 3 years. Which turd is worse? Having to play Umberger now or needing to trade Coots and Schenn for picks when their next contracts are up? We can debate all day about whether or not Hextall could have moved Harts all year. I suspect the trade deadline might have been a very good time to move him, but only because he had a decent season in Columbus. Who knows what the hell kind of year he would have had in Philly under Chief Crappy Coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Having to play Umberger now or needing to trade Coots and Schenn for picks when their next contracts are up? Well, the up side on that equation is that both of them will still be RFA at the end of their current deals after next season (while Umburglar will still have a year left on his contract). They can qualify them (with the caveat risk of possible offer sheets). Jake's up after next season, too... (UFA). I could see them buying out the final year of Umburglar if they needed it - which may be what they were thinking in the first place and perhaps gives some creedence to losing the two extra years for Hartnell. On the plus side, they have $9.8M in expiring UFA defense contracts (LSchenn, Medvedev, Grossmann) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quigster Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Has anybody figured out why the Flyers were so anxious to get rid of Harts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Has anybody figured out why the Flyers were so anxious to get rid of Harts? He was banging someone's wife? Someone was banging his? Somewhere, somehow a wife was most assuredly banged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yeah I was figuring on the first year without Umby being the first those kids would possibly be earning unqualified Market dollars. Presumably they'll each get multi years next time around and they'll have to make middle ground room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 He was banging someone's wife? Someone was banging his? Somewhere, somehow a wife was most assuredly banged.Hartnell did go through a divorce right around then {••} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 He was banging someone's wife? Someone was banging his? Somewhere, somehow a wife was most assuredly banged.These stories crop up every few years. Hopefully in 5 years it'll be Schenn and Coots. I file these stories with the one I heard in the men's room at the old spectrum about Jerry Pennicoli at the ER with some gerbils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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