JagerMeister Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Who has had the weakest win for each trophy...so weakest conn smythe win, Art ross win(this one should be obvious..), Norris win, MVP win, Pearson win, selke win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Who has had the weakest win for each trophy...so weakest conn smythe win, Art ross win(this one should be obvious..), Norris win, MVP win, Pearson win, selke win His initials wouldn't be Jamie Benn would they? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 His initials wouldn't be Jamie Benn would they? LolOfc not!!! i was thinking more along the lines of someone with the initials of JI.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm sure I'll be booed for "that's because it's a defenseman's job to play defense!" but I've never agreed with Langway winning the 2 Norris Trophies in 1983 and '84 over Paul Coffey. Coffey had 35 and 45 Goals Created compared to Langway's 12 and 10, and there's no way that Langway being better defensively (and I also think he was better in his own end) makes up that kind of difference. Also important to note: Coffey's ability to skate/pass the puck out of his own end had its own huge defensive benefit. (I also think Mark Howe deserved it over Langway in '83 as well. Wonderful defenseman.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm sure I'll be booed for "that's because it's a defenseman's job to play defense!" but I've never agreed with Langway winning the 2 Norris Trophies in 1983 and '84 over Paul Coffey. Coffey had 35 and 45 Goals Created compared to Langway's 12 and 10, and there's no way that Langway being better defensively (and I also think he was better in his own end) makes up that kind of difference.The James Norris Memorial Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League's top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position" That was taken right out of wikipedia, If the Norris trophy was given to the best defensive defenseman, then we would likely be seeing unpopular defenseman win the Norris trophy, players that we would have never given a thought to when discussing who deserves to be nominated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Ofc not!!! i was thinking more along the lines of someone with the initials of JI.. Lol. In all seriousness though, I'll give this some thought. Good topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 2003 Jackman winning the Calder. Ugh. This year odds are that Price wins the Hart. Weak class with individual scoring down, hell, Price might not have won the Vezina if Rinne had not missed time, now he is going to win the MVP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Price might not have won the Vezina if Rinne had not missed time, now he is going to win the MVP? I don't know Rinne played like doo doo the last month of the season heading into the playoffs and continued to struggle in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Here's my Hart answer: Jose Theodore in 2002. Last night I came up with a few seasons that I think they got wrong, but 2002 seems to best fit the premise of the thread. The competition was pretty weak that year, imo, but I don't think that Theodore should have won, because it wasn't even obviously clear that he was the best goalie. That's looking at it as the "best player" award it has become. Even if you look at it through the MVP to his team spectrum, what about Iginla? The Habs were fairly balanced offensively that year, and the Flames had a subpar Roman Turek in net. So yeah, 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Here's my Hart answer: Jose Theodore in 2002. Last night I came up with a few seasons that I think they got wrong, but 2002 seems to best fit the premise of the thread. The competition was pretty weak that year, imo, but I don't think that Theodore should have won, because it wasn't even obviously clear that he was the best goalie. That's looking at it as the "best player" award it has become. Even if you look at it through the MVP to his team spectrum, what about Iginla? The Habs were fairly balanced offensively that year, and the Flames had a subpar Roman Turek in net. So yeah, 2002. I seem to recall feeling that Jarome Iginla had been ripped off that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I seem to recall feeling that Jarome Iginla had been ripped off that year.I recall the flames giving up on winning or playing any sort of defense. The goal seemed to be "Get iggy the puck, play offensive, pad his numbers" Nothing wrong with that mind you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Since we have a Langway/Coffey comparison, why not throw in Bourque. If Langway won vs Coffey based on defensive prowess, then Bourque, who was outstanding defensively as well, AND scored 31 goals and 96 points may have been slightly snubbed as well with a 3rd place finish. 1993. Chelios beat him for the Norris trophy. Both had very good teams. Chelios with Roenick, Larmer and Ed Belfour's 40 win season. Bourque had Oates on a Monster season, Moog in net and Juneau having an impressive rookie year(Neely missed most of the year) However, Chelios spent nearly 300 minutes in the Penalty box(Bourque 40), and the Chicago PP he quarterbacked was below average, while the Bruins PP was above average, and the 83.47 PK was only a tiny bit better than the Bruins 83.05%. 5 on 5 saw Bourque with a team leading +38 while Chelios was +14, 4th on his team. Defensively they were close. Offensively, Bourque was well ahead of Chelios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 @J0e Th0rnton That list that I made of years that I thought the voters clearly got the Hart Trophy wrong included 1990, when I think Bourque should have won rather than Messier. I think that the contributions Bourque made to those Bruins teams have never been fully appreciated. They don't make the Finals (or come anywhere near them) in 1988 or 1990 if not for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Since we have a Langway/Coffey comparison, why not throw in Bourque. If Langway won vs Coffey based on defensive prowess, then Bourque, who was outstanding defensively as well, AND scored 31 goals and 96 points may have been slightly snubbed as well with a 3rd place finish. 1993. Chelios beat him for the Norris trophy. Both had very good teams. Chelios with Roenick, Larmer and Ed Belfour's 40 win season. Bourque had Oates on a Monster season, Moog in net and Juneau having an impressive rookie year(Neely missed most of the year) However, Chelios spent nearly 300 minutes in the Penalty box(Bourque 40), and the Chicago PP he quarterbacked was below average, while the Bruins PP was above average, and the 83.47 PK was only a tiny bit better than the Bruins 83.05%. 5 on 5 saw Bourque with a team leading +38 while Chelios was +14, 4th on his team. Defensively they were close. Offensively, Bourque was well ahead of Chelios Great post bro...some excellent points in there....nice memory!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I'm going to do these one at a time just to give myself time to do them. Weakest Vezina win: 1986 John Vanbiesbrouck won the trophy despite the fact that he wasn't even close to leading the league in save percentage or goals against average. Bob Froese led both categories, beating Beezer by 22 points in save percentage and by better than three-quarters of a goal allowed per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 There is one award that is weak altogether.....so all the players that win it are weak by default.....do away with the Lady Byng. The Lady Byng is just a way to get a star player a trophy to add to his collection....or a reward for just missing out on another honour.....they used to just hand this to Gretzky on a yearly basis...in his case, the league just wanted to add to his stunning trophy collection!! They handed this sucker out to Gretzky an astounding 5 times.....a few years back...Datsuyk won it 4 years in a row.....you need only PIM under 20....star status and in general, liked and respected around the league....does that sound like a legit trophy or criteria.....HELL NO>>>> Datsuyk winning it 4 times in a row...that was a sign of recognition by the NHL...they knew he was by far the most talented player, but he would never win an Art Ross or Rocket trophy....so you honour him with the Lady Byng...and bump up the trophy collection for an all time great....I swear this is the way it works.....LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Great post bro...some excellent points in there....nice memory!!Not much memory involved lol. I remember being outraged as a 13 year old that Bourque did not win the Norris again, so I went to Hockey-reference to see the stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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