Flyers Roster Moves at Draft

[JJMason33]

I have recently become very nervous about the forwards that are going to be available at the 7th overall pick.  Some people project Zacha as high as 5 and as low as 29.  Barzal usually falls in around 9-10.  Crouse can go as high as 5 or as low as 15.  And Rantanen is too much of a question mark for me.  He kind of reminds me of Voracek if he pans out.  But we dont need another C/RW or playmaking center IMO.

 

That leaves me to consider Proporov.  Yes another defenseman, but this one is NHL ready and will likely jump to the top of our prospect charts, if not just behind Sanheim.  He is about as much of a sure bet to be a solid NHL defense as there is and some even rank him about Hanifin.  He is also said to be NHL ready.

 

There is also talk about the Flyers signing Nikita Zaitsev, a russian defenseman considered to be a good 2 way D-man with above average puck moving skills and an accurate shot. With Hakstol as the new man behind the bench this becomes more likely than ever, since he preaches a game in which the defense is responsible for boxing out, board pins, and making the first pass to forwards.  In other words the defense is going to be active in his system.

 

Back to the matter at hand, If Zaitsev decides to sign here and the BPA is Proporov then you have a log-jam at defense even a beaver would be proud of.  Del Zotto and Schenn already being on the team, Sanheim, Proporov, Morin, Zaitsev, Gostisbhere, and Hagg.  So at the draft I would like to dangle Morin and Sanheim and see what kind of offers you get for young offensive goal scorers.  I'm not saying to move them definitely, but see what you can get.  If your socks get rocked, aka Yakupov or RNH as part of a deal than maybe you do it.  If not maybe you help the home team make a splash at their draft.  The Flyers could trade the 7th overall for Florida's 11th, and their 2 second rounders in this years draft.  You could select whomever is left out of Zacha, Barzal, Rantanen, or Crouse and pick up 2 more skill players in this deep offensive draft.

 

This also doesn't take into account the minor moves that have to be made at the draft such as making room for 2-3 young defenseman.  Grossmann will have to be moved, but that shouldn't be an issue for a 3rd and 4th round pick.  Unfortunately MacDonald is likely to stay because of his poor season and contract.  The amount of salary we would have to eat would put Jabba the Hut into a Diabetic coma, so we will likely have to deal Schultz and/or Schenn. Preferably I would like to deal the Schenn Brothers together.  I think you get more for the pair then you would as individuals, and while you can keep one, trade one, I think it benefits all involved to move both or keep both.  I like to imagine a way that we could get a decent young goalie prospect, a young mid-level offensive prospect, and a pick around 14-15 if the Flyers include the Tampa pick.  I would definately use this on Svechnikov.  I believe him to be highly under-rated just for being Russian, much like Nichushkin.  

 

Now a lot of people say this sounds like a basement dwelling team, but is it.  Sure there will be struggles with a young defensive core, but you are also making the forward more accountable defensively.  Hakstol is well known for adapting this system to fit his players, and I think he will do so here.  Review the below line-up.  I know Hextall doesn't like to rush young players, however he got a teaching coach to do just that.

 

 

 

[RJ8812]

I would not trade Sanheim. Morin either.

[flyercanuck]

@JJMason33

 

Welcome to the board.

 

The Flyers suck because the defence sucks.

 

The Oilers suck because the defence (and goaltending) sucks.

 

The Leafs suck because the defence (and goaltending, and forwards) suck.

 

Philly finally took the draft, and defence seriously. The future looks bright. And you want to trade that away? Sanheim and Morin for Yakupov or RNH? No thanks.

 

Sanheim will play junior next year. Morin will at least start out in the A, as will Ghost who wasn't quite ready last year and had his entire season of development put in limbo. Hagg might be ready for spot duty. If we eventually need to clear a logjam I'm trying to move Grossmann/MacDonald/Schenn/Schultz/Gudas/Streit before Sanheim or Morin. 

 

I'd be fine with Provorov as a pick. Or Barzal. Even Zacha.

[OccamsRazor]

So at the draft I would like to dangle Morin and Sanheim and see what kind of offers you get for young offensive goal scorers.

 

 

 

 

Aaaaaahhhh no. Sorry i'm not moving those two. I hold at #7 and take the BPA if that is Provorov or Barzal or Crouse.

 

And i want no part of Yakupov.

 

I'm assuming you're new here haven't seen you post before so welcome enjoy. 

[jammer2]

@JJMason33  Hey, a warm welcome JJ.....like your writing style, some great ideas mixed with humour....looking forward to reading more of your thoughts.

 

 I get what you are saying, I to consider Sanheim and Morin untouchabe....but hey, you are doing the fan base and the org a disservice to not explore all avenues. If the pick is Proporov....and they sign the Russian, there is an overload of defensive talent...(did I just say that....about *my* team??...lol). We would be full up on d-men and real short on goal scoring forwards. So.....exploring a RNH or Yakapov deal....or something very similar...sure, explore away.

 

  Myself, I want Werenski....think he is the best d-man in the draft and has the best chance to be a star. My initial reaction though, is to go BPA and if that is a d-man....my initial tendency is HOARD them...all of them....and hope and pray guys like Ghost and Hagg turn out to be the real deal...until we know how that kinda stuff shakes out, the all stay Flyers....unless, like you said, something to great to turn down is somehow offered.

 

 

EDIT... Gotta remember, this Flyer scouting staff has had no problem finding goals....so being patient and letting them do their job is a good solid plan. The hard part is securing a dependable defense and a quality tender....and we only have one of the two right now....

[murraycraven]

 So at the draft I would like to dangle Morin and Sanheim and see what kind of offers you get for young offensive goal scorers.

 

 

First - welcome...

 

No way I am trading Sanheim and Morin.   You are giving up a possible first pairing defense for one player... no way.  If you are looking at a RNH or Yak deal the price would have to be much lower.   Also, I dont think there is a chance Hextall would trade either of these two w/out getting a king's ransom.

[mojo1917]

Any deal that includes Morin or Sanhiem  will have to absolutely blow my doors off.. and any deal with Yakupov in it doesn't do that.

 

I also can't see how the Oil deals RNH when McJesus is on the way. the speed of those two together .... have to see how that works, even with McDavid having to learn to play the pivot, it's not like he doesn't have the skills to do it.

 

I think Morin makes it hard to send him to the A at camp this year, and i think our blue line looks different after the draft, I can see Grossmann, Schenn, Shultz (whose deal is very tradeable) playing for other teams .

[jammer2]

, I can see Grossmann, Schenn, Shultz (whose deal is very tradeable) playing for other teams .

 

 It is looking more and more like the fate of next years Flyers lies with Hexy's ability to unload our stiff d-men, thus giving the youngsters a chance to add speed and smarts to the equation. Not to mention any kid will be on a ELC, potentially giving us an upgrade while saving cap space....a win...win.

[AJgoal]

Honestly, I would only move one Dman at the draft. My preference is Grossmann (only because I don't think you can move MacDonald), but he may have more value at the deadline. I'm a bit of a dreamer and wonder what Schenn could do if the coach followed @BobbyClarkeFan16's suggestion and made him drop 10-15 pounds. Schenn does make a good breakout pass, and playing for Berube and that mess in TO hasn't done him any favors as far as learning the game at this level. I'm not opposed to trading Luke, but I'd like to give him a chance with Hakstol.

 

My preference for only moving one guy out is that we don't know how any of the prospects are going to pan out. We'd be doing them and the team no favors unless they absolutely impress at TC. Trading off Luke AND Grossmann AND Schultz in the offseason, BEFORE training camp, puts the onus on the team to play some youngsters who may not be ready for the minutes yet, or fill the roster with the drek of free agency at the end of training camp. Neither is an ideal situation, and the first, especially, could do more harm than good. Move one, give Manning his shot at the big club full time. If he fails, you still have a seventh Dman who can dress in his place.

[OccamsRazor]

I'm a bit of a dreamer and wonder what Schenn could do if the coach followed @BobbyClarkeFan16's suggestion and made him drop 10-15 pounds.

I just don't know if that is going to have the same effect as it had with Jake if you look at pictures of Luke like i saw him posing with Goulbourne holding the WHL cup dude is what ever he weights but is all pretty much muscle...like really no fat and big powerful legs. Were and Jake was soft and carry a good bit of fat because he ate unhealthy.

Luke is a big bruising Dman who is physical and will need to muscle to take the pounding he doles out and takes so i'm happy with his size i think.

But sure he could maybe improve his cardio and endurance and possibly shed about 5 pounds to make him lighter but i'm not sure i would want him to drop much more than that.

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

 

I am a fan of the Luke losing weight and maybe that's not the correct way to think about it. I would think he should change his workout regimen so it is made up of more cardio , more explosive movements, more agility and less pounding away at the leg press machine.  I think he would "lose" whatever weight is slowing him down so much. 

 

Maybe it's 15lbs maybe its 5 but I think fundamentally just because he looks devoid of fat it doesn't necessarily mean he's carrying the right body type for achieving maximum performance.  

 

this is personal and anecdotal but when i was at my "best looking" 195, I was not as coordinated or a quick as i am/was at 180.  I think this thinking could be applied in Luke's case.

[jammer2]

@OccamsRazor  I'm thinking Luke is at a crossroads in his career. If he does not want to get bounced out of the league, or at least become a fringe player, he needs to become faster.....and at this point....shedding 10+ pounds might be the only way to accomplish that feat.

[OccamsRazor]

@OccamsRazor

 

I am a fan of the Luke losing weight and maybe that's not the correct way to think about it. I would think he should change his workout regimen so it is made up of more cardio , more explosive movements, more agility and less pounding away at the leg press machine.  I think he would "lose" whatever weight is slowing him down so much. 

 

Maybe it's 15lbs maybe its 5 but I think fundamentally just because he looks devoid of fat it doesn't necessarily mean he's carrying the right body type for achieving maximum performance.  

 

this is personal and anecdotal but when i was at my "best looking" 195, I was not as coordinated or a quick as i am/was at 180.  I think this thinking could be applied in Luke's case.

Yes defiantly more workouts geared towards quickness and fast switch muscle growth.

The weight is almost irelavant...because of his change of his workout routine the body compensation will change accordingly...but yes less power lifing more cardio became i think he is already strong enough.

[JJMason33]

Hey guys. Thanks for the warm welcome and for reading my massive dissertation. Lol.

Looks like I made a boo-boo in there when I didn't clarify that I would shop Sanheim and Morin but would only trade one of them, and only if the right deal was there. And only if Proporov was my target at the draft.

I look at Edmonton and Yakupov and RNH specifically because now with McDavid they have leverage to trade one of these high talent prospect for the defense they need.

I know a lot of people like to poo-poo Yakupov like he is the next Daigle but he started to turn his game around at the end of last year. Let's not forget he has had 3 or 4 different coaches and been on different lines for his first few years. I definitely see him as a buy while the value is low because the upside could be so high.

I'm wondering if Dallas would consider moving Nichushkin for defensive help. I would trade Morin straight up for him.

[JJMason33]

Yes defiantly more workouts geared towards quickness and fast switch muscle growth.

The weight is almost irelavant...because of his change of his workout routine the body compensation will change accordingly...but yes less power lifing more cardio became i think he is already strong enough.

To be honest with you guys I just don't see it happening. My cousin is a hockey player at canterberry school in Connecticut. He is being recruited for college and is receiving the teams workout and dietary books already. They are about 400 pages. Just for the diets and workouts! So Schenn knows all this stuff already and has had professional trainers telling him the same things for the last 7 years. If he hasn't figured it out by now, or is unable to compensate then it's not going to happen.

I personally think Schenn has hit a ceiling of a #4 guy. And I think brother Brayden has hit his top of second line scoring forward. I would really like to move both before other teams figure it out.

[murraycraven]

I personally think Schenn has hit a ceiling of a #4 guy. And I think brother Brayden has hit his top of second line scoring forward. I would really like to move both before other teams figure it out.

 

I have no issue with that at all...   

[flyercanuck]

To be honest with you guys I just don't see it happening. My cousin is a hockey player at canterberry school in Connecticut. He is being recruited for college and is receiving the teams workout and dietary books already. They are about 400 pages. Just for the diets and workouts! So Schenn knows all this stuff already and has had professional trainers telling him the same things for the last 7 years. If he hasn't figured it out by now, or is unable to compensate then it's not going to happen.

I personally think Schenn has hit a ceiling of a #4 guy. And I think brother Brayden has hit his top of second line scoring forward. I would really like to move both before other teams figure it out.

 

 

I'm not saying these guys have leaps and bounds of development left in them...but Luke Schenn is at an age where your typical NHL defencemen are just starting to get it. And Brayden is 23. There are plenty of NHLers (actually I'd say most) whose best years are AFTER the age of 23. 

 

As for the other teams not figuring it out...I'm guessing if we know things on this boards, guys who actually work for NHL teams already know it. At least for the most part.

[JJMason33]

I'm not saying these guys have leaps and bounds of development left in them...but Luke Schenn is at an age where your typical NHL defencemen are just starting to get it. And Brayden is 23. There are plenty of NHLers (actually I'd say most) whose best years are AFTER the age of 23.

As for the other teams not figuring it out...I'm guessing if we know things on this boards, guys who actually work for NHL teams already know it. At least for the most part.

I don't think Luke's problem is decision-making which would be the mistake of a younger player. His issues are more about speed and talent. Everyone knew he was going to be a big strong defenseman but what made him a high draft pick was the fact he might add puck mover or offense to his game. That hasn't happened and it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

[flyercanuck]

@JJMason33

 

I'm all for making trades to make the team better. But I'm not for trading youth just because, while they're still young, haven't peaked. 

 

JVR, at Schenns age had 21 g 19 a. He followed that up with 24 point season, a 32 point season, then 61. 

 

Ryan Kesler, at Braydens age, had 6 g 10 a. He followed that with a 21/16 season, then 26/33, then 25/50. If he played for the Flyers, most fans would have wanted to dump him at 23...or sooner.

 

Maybe the Schenns have plateaued. But I'm betting they can still get better.

[JJMason33]

@JJMason33

I'm all for making trades to make the team better. But I'm not for trading youth just because, while they're still young, haven't peaked.

JVR, at Schenns age had 21 g 19 a. He followed that up with 24 point season, a 32 point season, then 61.

Ryan Kesler, at Braydens age, had 6 g 10 a. He followed that with a 21/16 season, then 26/33, then 25/50. If he played for the Flyers, most fans would have wanted to dump him at 23...or sooner.

Maybe the Schenns have plateaued. But I'm betting they can still get better.

Im not saying your wrong here but I wouldn't mind a games played and TOI comparison, because there is age and then there is experience. If Brayden has been playing longer and more minutes then the comparisons aren't very fair IMO.

[jammer2]

Maybe the Schenns have plateaued. But I'm betting they can still get better.

 

 For me, it's not all about production. It's giving a coveted top 6 spot to a meh skater. I'd feel a lot better about him if he was a step or so quicker.

[LegionOfDoom]

I see the Schenns can "now" have the direction and accountability now with our coach to be communicated the importance of direction and accountability in a hockey system that will equate to their personal growth and professional success. I didn't like how they were handled, developmentally and they shouldn't be treated as throw aways for our team going forward. In saying that the possibility for trading them together for the number one/two overall pick is understandable. If that's not the case the Schenns' in Beast Mode will serve a long way in a deep playoff run, next season.

Yes we are a playoff team, expecially now if all things moving forward are indicating, barring any team wide injuries, and even that won't seem to be a factor with a head on a swivel thinking coach, that can coach on the fly.

This season AGAIN! We go into a season with unsurety. I think Hexy is trying to shore up that instability in the organization so that we can be a well oiled machine, interchanging parts in a routinely scheduled maintenance kind of way.

[RJ8812]

@JJMason33

 

I'm all for making trades to make the team better. But I'm not for trading youth just because, while they're still young, haven't peaked. 

 

JVR, at Schenns age had 21 g 19 a. He followed that up with 24 point season, a 32 point season, then 61. 

 

Ryan Kesler, at Braydens age, had 6 g 10 a. He followed that with a 21/16 season, then 26/33, then 25/50. If he played for the Flyers, most fans would have wanted to dump him at 23...or sooner.

 

Maybe the Schenns have plateaued. But I'm betting they can still get better.

 

It's just sickening how so many fans think players need to break out at 22 years old or they're busts. Brayden has increased his point total every year in the league...that's a good sign. He's still getting better 

[OccamsRazor]

It's just sickening how so many fans think players need to break out at 22 years old or they're busts. Brayden has increased his point total every year in the league...that's a good sign. He's still getting better

Not really.

It depends on if you want to look at pretty lil numbers on a sheet that some times (like this yea gets real beefed up in garbage time (or don't reflect the many times of him just going through the motions)with nothing to lose or play for...or actually watch him on the ice and see that the numbers sometimes just don't correlate...which are you?

[JJMason33]

It's just sickening how so many fans think players need to break out at 22 years old or they're busts. Brayden has increased his point total every year in the league...that's a good sign. He's still getting better

I never said he was a bust. I just think he won't progress beyond a 2nd line scorer.