Sean Couturier - What do the Flyers really have?

[pilldoc]

http://thehockeywriters.com/sean-couturier-part-one-the-second-line-center/

 

Good morning everybody.  Sorry I have been AWOL for a bit. Just came back from a very nice weekend celebrating my wedding anniversary with my wife.

 

So getting back into the swing of hockey, I came across this article about Sean "Coots" Couturier from The Hockey Writers.  Coots has been talked about ad nauseaum on here.  So what is one more article and discuss...right?

 

I am curious to see how Hakstol will use Coots.  With some pretty good success at the World Championsships, it is important for fans to see he "Does" have upside offensive potential.

 

"To be sure, the Philadelphia Flyers did not pick Couturier 8th overall in 2011 only to have him to be a “shutdown specialist,” although he excels at containing the top players of the opponent. The team expects, and has expected, that Couturier bring a fair amount of offense to the table to go along with his shutdown abilities."

 

"With capable young centers in the Flyers system, many are questioning why he seems to be the front-runner as the teams’ second-line center moving forward. Why not give Brayden Schenn another shot? What about Laughton, Cousins, or Lecavalier?

 

The short answer is this: Not only is Sean Couturier the Flyers best in-house option for a second line center, but he produces at a level comparable to top-six forwards league wide. And, on top of this, the scary thing about Couturier is the fact that he is still only 22 years old and has not yet been used properly."

 

The article evaluates Coots 3 ways:

 

1) His Usage: -

 

• "To say that Sean Couturier was given tough assignments this season  is an understatement. Not only was Couturier given some of the worst zone starts in the NHL, but his line-mates were sup-par."

 

2) How does he rank on the Flyers?

 

• "In almost every relevant statistical category Couturier ranks in the top six Flyers forwards."

 

3) How does he compare against the rest of the league?

 

• "Continuing this look at Sean Couturier’s top-six credentials, it is important to look at how Couturier stacks up league-wide. I can hear the argument now: “Just because Couturier is top-six on the Flyers does not make him good! Put him on a contender and he’s a 4th liner!” So, let’s take a look.
• This past season Couturier was tied for 141st (among forwards who played at least 500 even strength minutes) in the NHL with 25 even strength points . Considering that there are 30 teams in the NHL, it would make sense that there are roughly 180 “top-six forwards.” So Couturier clearly fits within the top-six range.
• His even strength point total is the same as bona-fide top-six forwards like Gustav Nyqvist and Ryan Kesler and he scored more points at even strength than players like Wayne Simmonds, Chris Kunitz, and Antoine Vermette.

 

"In conclusion, even at the ripe young age of 22, Sean Couturier stacks up favorably as a top-six center at even strength, based upon his even strength production alone. When his usage is taken into consideration, it is clear that he is a special player. Rather than questioning his abilities, Flyers fans should be excited about the future."

 

I am looking forward to reading parts 2 and 3.

 

As I mentioned above, I am really excited to see how Hakstol uses Coots.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[flyercanuck]

Always thought he had skill. Always thought he never got much of a chance to use it. His skating doesn't help him in this NHL. But he's got smarts that can make up a lot for that. And when people were saying he would get victimized on the big ice in the WHCs, he actually did quite well.

[AJgoal]

Always thought he had skill. Always thought he never got much of a chance to use it. His skating doesn't help him in this NHL. But he's got smarts that can make up a lot for that. And when people were saying he would get victimized on the big ice in the WHCs, he actually did quite well.

 

I believe the stat I saw was +13, no even strength goals against.

[mojo1917]

one can see he has the smarts to play the game.  he makes passes that his bumblefuk linemates who are in scoring position do not finish .  until he can just shoot the puck off their shin pads this may be a problem.  He needs smart guys with a nose for the net on his line, he can distribute the puck, he needs a guy that shoot it on his line.

 

I want to see him use his frame better and he better come back this fall with some better mechanics to his skating. his top end is fine, he needs to get to it more quickly and I think that can be worked on .

 

He's a good player . Even if all he ever is , is a Michael Handzus type. a team needs those guys too.  I think he has the talent to be a Ron Francis type, i'm glad the "brain trust " hasn't given up on him the way a large portion the fan base has.

[yave1964]

Couturier to me is a lot like Riley Sheahan of the Wings, frustrating in so many ways. He excels as a third liner to the point where he feels like he should be able to move up with ease but when moved into a more demanding role he struggles. So he sits, too good to be a third liner not quite good enough to be anything else.

IMHO you just leave him alone in the third line/shut down role that he does so well, quit tinkering, he is enormously valuable if you use him correctly. Let him take the tough faceoffs, play the matchups whenever possible and get him against other teams top lines, kill penalties and get more than adequate offense from that role.

Outside looking in, the problem with Couturier is not Couturier himself, it is Brayden Schenn. If Schenn had stepped up into the number two center role as the Flyers thought he would, been a 55-60 point guy and worked the second power play there would be no conversation except how lucky the Flyers are to have Giroux, Schenn and Couts as the heart of the team down the middle. Instead with Schenn struggling to find his role it forces the team to juggle and frustration sets in, first with Schenn for not living up to his potential and then for Couturier for not being better than he is, which is still a damn good player.

So like I said, again, from the outside, quit tinkering put him on the third line for the next decade and consider yourselves blessed. A ton of teams are looking for players his age with his skill set, trust me, they simply are not out there.

[murraycraven]

honestly, I am so tired of hearing his skating is an issue (not offense meant here...).  Is he the best skater?  No, but he makes up for his skating with great positioning and hockey IQ.   He can work on skating and improve.   This kid is still a baby and has plenty of time to develop.   He is a hell of a defensive forward and I do think there is more there in terms of offensive production.  He is never going to be a sniper in this league but he can be a 20-25 guy if given the right chance.

 

He is a work in progress at his age even though he has a few years in the league.   

[Podein25]

He's a good player . Even if all he ever is , is a Michael Handzus type. a team needs those guys too.  I think he has the talent to be a Ron Francis type, i'm glad the "brain trust " hasn't given up on him the way a large portion the fan base has.

 

 

 

I, for one, will be disappointed if Coots only becomes a Handzus type. Yes, you need them, and yes they come cheaper than a Francis type player, but he's got the potential to be more.

 

I've vigorously defended the guy in the face of a coach who didn't give him good enough offensive linemates or zone starts, but he needs to decide for himself what kind of player he wants to be. The two things that are holding him back - foot speed and a quick release/better shot - are things he, and he alone, can improve if he puts the work in. It's time Sean. 

[OccamsRazor]

I think they should trade him....how else will he get to the next level and haunt the Flyers forever if he is still here............

[OccamsRazor]

 

 

I, for one, will be disappointed if Coots only becomes a Handzus type. Yes, you need them, and yes they come cheaper than a Francis type player, but he's got the potential to be more.

 

I've vigorously defended the guy in the face of a coach who didn't give him good enough offensive linemates or zone starts, but he needs to decide for himself what kind of player he wants to be. The two things that are holding him back - foot speed and a quick release/better shot - are things he, and he alone, can improve if he puts the work in. It's time Sean. 

 

 

 

Hacksaw will utilize him and bring the best out of him, he hasn't had a forward his size in a couple years North Dakota's forwards lately have been on the smaller side barely much over 6 foot. He is size with his already smart hockey IQ will be taken to the next level.

 

I feel he'll do the same will Brayden as well.

 

The thing with Hacksaw is if you don't play your part in his system you won't play...period....there will be no favorites he doesn't give a damn he will sit you no matter if you're Zac or Giroux.

 

So there will be no more overlook Coburn's brain dead gaffes and he still plays and MDZ makes the slightest mistake and is benched.

 

He don't care about status or how much you get paid or how long your contract is for....he is about winning games and that starts with playing your assignment within the system, that includes keeping your feet moving and backchecking and the defensemen supporting the forwards on the rush and moving the puck up the ice. Playing without the puck as well as with it.

 

Don't do that and you won't play....don't do it often enough and you will find yourself on the way out the door.

[flyercanuck]

I believe the stat I saw was +13, no even strength goals against.

 

 

Yes, 2nd best on TC and in the entire tournament.

[Podein25]

Yes, 2nd best on TC and in the entire tournament.

 

 

 

 Plus minus. Pfft.

 

What were his Corsi, his Fenwick, his Heisenberg numbers?

[flyercanuck]

@Podein25

 

His Heisenberg was C10H15N

[pilldoc]

Outside looking in, the problem with Couturier is not Couturier himself, it is Brayden Schenn. If Schenn had stepped up into the number two center role as the Flyers thought he would, been a 55-60 point guy and worked the second power play there would be no conversation except how lucky the Flyers are to have Giroux, Schenn and Couts as the heart of the team down the middle. Instead with Schenn struggling to find his role it forces the team to juggle and frustration sets in, first with Schenn for not living up to his potential and then for Couturier for not being better than he is, which is still a damn good player.

 

 

 

Great point Yave!  I don't know about some on here, but I feel this will be a make or break year for B. Schenn as well.  It is interesting to note how Hakstol will hopefully finally bring out the best of Schenn.  I know many on here have him as a goat and many have also seen his potential at times.  If Schenn can't pick up his game in actual hockey system, then he "may" become potential trade bait.  I am not advocating him to be traded at this moment.  I am simply saying now that the Flyers have gone out and hired an actual hockey coach, it is put up or shut up time for some of these players.  I for one am starting to lose some patience with Schenn.

 

As far as Coots goes, I think it is wise for Hakstol to try to put Coots in a position to succeed on the 2nd the line and actually give Coots the chance to proive himself and not demote him back to the 3rd line after only a handful of games.

 

IMO, players need to know their role on this team and with Berube's style of pond hockey, they simply were not put in positions to succeed. 

 

I am really hoping Harkstol brings out the very best of Coots offensively.

[Podein25]

His Heisenberg was C10H15N

 

 

Outstanding! Wait a sec, is that a good thing?

[flyercanuck]

@Podein25

 

Depends what you consider " good."

[radoran]

Couturier's Avogadros' number was 6.02x10²³

 

[pilldoc]

@Podein25

 

Depends what you consider " good."

 

awesome!  chemical formula for Meth!

[JackStraw]

@Podein25

 

His Heisenberg was C10H15N

 

Are you suggesting he was on methamphetamine?

[Philly29]

I agree I have been saying this very same thing to several friends of mine that now with Hakstol here the one player who will benefit the most will be Coots.

 

I think we will see a much improved player on top of an already great player. If that is indeed the case and if Coots brings the offensive potential to the ice that we all know that he has then that will eliminate the need for a 2nd line center.

 

We would be also be able to trade B.Schenn off and bring Laughton up to be the teams checking line center. 

 

Flyers could be potentially very solid up the middle. Sounds like exciting times in Flyer land!

[mojo1917]

Outside looking in, the problem with Couturier is not Couturier himself, it is Brayden Schenn. If Schenn had stepped up into the number two center role as the Flyers thought he would, been a 55-60 point guy and worked the second power play there would be no conversation except how lucky the Flyers are to have Giroux, Schenn and Couts as the heart of the team down the middle

 

i think this is good insight.

 

The "grand experiment" of turning Schenn into a winger has had uneven results. B Schenn has not made it impossible for coaches to move him off the pivot when he's played there.  He has been uneven in his development period.  He has shown flashes, but with no consistency .  He has been bounced around from position to position and up and down the line up. I think part of that is he hasn't ever shown...I'm the second line centerman. or i'm the first line winger...he's not ever once claimed a roster spot in the top 6, he's allowed himself to be shuffled around because he hasn't "fit" anywhere .  and oddly enough the best both these players looked offensively was when they were on the same line at the end of the year in '15

[King Knut]

http://thehockeywriters.com/sean-couturier-part-one-the-second-line-center/

Good morning everybody. Sorry I have been AWOL for a bit. Just came back from a very nice weekend celebrating my wedding anniversary with my wife.

So getting back into the swing of hockey, I came across this article about Sean "Coots" Couturier from The Hockey Writers. Coots has been talked about ad nauseaum on here. So what is one more article and discuss...right?

I am curious to see how Hakstol will use Coots. With some pretty good success at the World Championsships, it is important for fans to see he "Does" have upside offensive potential.

"To be sure, the Philadelphia Flyers did not pick Couturier 8th overall in 2011 only to have him to be a “shutdown specialist,” although he excels at containing the top players of the opponent. The team expects, and has expected, that Couturier bring a fair amount of offense to the table to go along with his shutdown abilities."

"With capable young centers in the Flyers system, many are questioning why he seems to be the front-runner as the teams’ second-line center moving forward. Why not give Brayden Schenn another shot? What about Laughton, Cousins, or Lecavalier?

The short answer is this: Not only is Sean Couturier the Flyers best in-house option for a second line center, but he produces at a level comparable to top-six forwards league wide. And, on top of this, the scary thing about Couturier is the fact that he is still only 22 years old and has not yet been used properly."

The article evaluates Coots 3 ways:

1) His Usage: -

• "To say that Sean Couturier was given tough assignments this season is an understatement. Not only was Couturier given some of the worst zone starts in the NHL, but his line-mates were sup-par."
  

2) How does he rank on the Flyers?

• "In almost every relevant statistical category Couturier ranks in the top six Flyers forwards."
  

3) How does he compare against the rest of the league?

• "Continuing this look at Sean Couturier’s top-six credentials, it is important to look at how Couturier stacks up league-wide. I can hear the argument now: “Just because Couturier is top-six on the Flyers does not make him good! Put him on a contender and he’s a 4th liner!” So, let’s take a look.
  
• This past season Couturier was tied for 141st (among forwards who played at least 500 even strength minutes) in the NHL with 25 even strength points . Considering that there are 30 teams in the NHL, it would make sense that there are roughly 180 “top-six forwards.” So Couturier clearly fits within the top-six range.
  
• His even strength point total is the same as bona-fide top-six forwards like Gustav Nyqvist and Ryan Kesler and he scored more points at even strength than players like Wayne Simmonds, Chris Kunitz, and Antoine Vermette.
  

"In conclusion, even at the ripe young age of 22, Sean Couturier stacks up favorably as a top-six center at even strength, based upon his even strength production alone. When his usage is taken into consideration, it is clear that he is a special player. Rather than questioning his abilities, Flyers fans should be excited about the future."

I am looking forward to reading parts 2 and 3.

As I mentioned above, I am really excited to see how Hakstol uses Coots.

Thoughts?

[flyercanuck]

Are you suggesting he was on methamphetamine?

 

 

Couturier IS meth!

[King Knut]

http://thehockeywriters.com/sean-couturier-part-one-the-second-line-center/

As I mentioned above, I am really excited to see how Hakstol uses Coots.

Thoughts?

Couldn't agree more.

Coots is the 4th most valuable flyer and has so much upside that I hope Hakstol is chomping at the but to get his hands on him.

Any decent coach would be. Couldn't agree more.

Coots is the 4th most valuable flyer and has so much upside that I hope Hakstol is chomping at the but to get his hands on him.

Any decent coach would be. Worlds should serve as evidence of this.

[murraycraven]

Couturier IS meth!

 

 

sure looks like he might be hitting the pipe

 

 

 

[intheslot]

Cooter has to pick up the O part of his game ..

 Everybody know what he can do playing D ..

 Go  Cooter  ...