ScottM Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 There probably aren't many players at all over whom people differ more on their opinions than Grant Fuhr. He has his proponents who believe that he's one of the best goalies ever, and that if it weren't for the way his teams played in front of him, that fact would be obvious. Then, there are others who believe that he was simply terrible and that his stats are a true reflection of the player he was. Here's my take: I think the truth is somewhere in between. I think Fuhr was a good goalie, but I do not think he was great. I do think his win totals are inflated somewhat by the fact that he played on some of the best teams of all time. However, I think his stats also took a hit from being hung out to dry on many occasions, as well. I've been on record on this forum about my feelings on Paul Coffey and the Oilers' defense. There were some who strongly disagreed with me leaving Coffey out of my top 10 defensemen, but I think that there were times that he (and other Edmonton defensemen) was something of a defensive liability because they were too quick to join the rush. Now, that wasn't necessarily a bad thing for the team in the Oilers' system which was centered around burying the opponents in goals, but it definitely wasn't good for the goalie. Would Fuhr be in the Hall of Fame if he played for an "average" team for his whole career? I'm not so sure. Would his stats be better under a more "normal" set of circumstances, though? I believe they would. What's your take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 As a guy who watched his glory days? Tremendously athletic.Flashy. Not as good as many say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 As a guy who watched his glory days? Tremendously athletic.Flashy. Not as good as many say. No doubt he was flashy. To find someone that looked more so, you're probably talking about Dominik Hasek. Would you say that the athleticism helped him considering the circumstances he played in with his defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 No doubt he was flashy. To find someone that looked more so, you're probably talking about Dominik Hasek. Would you say that the athleticism helped him considering the circumstances he played in with his defense? See, that's just it. People talk about the Oilers defense in those years as if they were terrible, or didn't care about their own end. Notable Oilers blueliners during Fuhr's years in Edmonton: CoffeyLoweHuddySmithFogolinMuniGregg There's only guy (Coffey) who was a lot more dedicated to playing an offensive game than a defensive one. The rest were either excellent defensively (Lowe, Huddy) or very good (Smith), or good (Foglin, Muni, Gregg). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 See, that's just it. People talk about the Oilers defense in those years as if they were terrible, or didn't care about their own end. Notable Oilers blueliners during Fuhr's years in Edmonton: CoffeyLoweHuddySmithFogolinMuniGregg There's only guy (Coffey) who was a lot more dedicated to playing an offensive game than a defensive one. The rest were either excellent defensively (Lowe, Huddy) or very good (Smith), or good (Foglin, Muni, Gregg). Fair point. I guess the fact that Coffey was the most recognized among them leads to that. I guess I'm guilty of getting caught up in that. I'm still pretty early in my study of hockey history, so I'm still having to get a lot of stereotypes out of my head. That being the case, that actually lowers my estimate of Fuhr a little. Not to the "he's terrible" ranks by any stretch of the imagination, but it still drops it a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Fair point. I guess the fact that Coffey was the most recognized among them leads to that. I guess I'm guilty of getting caught up in that. I'm still pretty early in my study of hockey history, so I'm still having to get a lot of stereotypes out of my head. That being the case, that actually lowers my estimate of Fuhr a little. Not to the "he's terrible" ranks by any stretch of the imagination, but it still drops it a little. Yeah, a lot of talk about that Oilers defense is narrative, because they had a fair number of guys who were two-way defensemen, but not a lot of defense-only guys back there. The result: they were VERY good at getting the puck to the forwards and out of their end. It was during that time that I developed a distaste for off-the-glass-and-out defensive specialist. Grant Fuhr got a lot of points on being part of championship club (he WAS good) and making really good looking saves. It's sort of a Roberto Alomar thing: people raved about his defense because he made so many diving catches. If he had better positioning and range, he wouldn't have been forced to leave his feet so often. Same sort of thing with Fuhr. We always heard things like "Yeah, he let in 4, but he made sure the 5th one didn't go in." Just think how much better he'd have been if he hadn't let in the 4th either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I see Fuhr as being ten percent at most better than Chris Osgood, who is a great comp, IMHO. Both were very good goalies at their best, putting up solid numbers but got a bump in both fan and writer recognition to a level that they really did not deserve due to the elite teams that they played on. Both won cups as in plural, played important roles on great teams and then watched their legend denigrated a bit at the end of their career and after being told that, in essense, 'anyone' could have won a cup with the talent the OIlers and later the Wings had around them. To a certain extent this is true. Nobody talks Andy Moog for the Hall, or Mike Vernon or Bill Ranford, all won cups with these clubs and have slipped from memory, but Fuhr is immortalized and Osgood has a ton of both retractors and supporters for enshrinement. The argument goes that the Wings/Oilers made the legend of both players which, admittedly is partially true. My feeling is Fuhr is deserving of Hall of Fame credentials and Osgood while better than many seem to remember is just barely on the other side of the line, on the outside looking in. I have a hard time thinking of one without the other, they played similar roles on great teams. Both bounced around a bit and didn't do much in their other stops outside of the city that made them famous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Maybe I'll start calling Ben Bishop the great white Fuhr. Grant loved the cocaine and I hated him.Put him on a different team, say the Calgary Flames, and we only talk about the cocaine and how it derailed a promising career.He was flashy but also pretty clutch, I credit the cocaine for that. wow 20 years later and that vitriol comes out when i think of him... i guess it's easy to tell I'm not a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Being flashy makes you look better then you actually are...Being flashy also gets you romanticized a bit more than you should.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Maybe I'll start calling Ben Bishop the great white Fuhr. Grant loved the cocaine and I hated him.Put him on a different team, say the Calgary Flames, and we only talk about the cocaine and how it derailed a promising career.He was flashy but also pretty clutch, I credit the cocaine for that. wow 20 years later and that vitriol comes out when i think of him... i guess it's easy to tell I'm not a fan. Well like Rick James said, "Cocaine's a Hell of a drug." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 @JR Ewing I agree with what you said about how much better Fuhr would've been if he "hadn't let the 4th one in," but @mojo1917 also brought up what I think is probably one of the most key points in a discussion of Fuhr that I failed to reference in my original post. He had the reputation for making the key saves in the impotent moments. As someone who did watch him closely back in the day, what's your take on that? Would you say it's accurate or overblown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 @JR Ewing I agree with what you said about how much better Fuhr would've been if he "hadn't let the 4th one in," but @mojo1917 also brought up what I think is probably one of the most key points in a discussion of Fuhr that I failed to reference in my original post. He had the reputation for making the key saves in the impotent moments. As someone who did watch him closely back in the day, what's your take on that? Would you say it's accurate or overblown? I think that a lot of what we talk about as clutch play is hero worship from journalists and fans, and self-serving crap from former athletes turned colour men. Not only are these guys bigger, stronger and more athletic than us, but better human beings, too; rising to the challenge, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. Of course Grant Fuhr made big saves: he was a terrific goalie. I leave that sort of thing at that, when it comes to being clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 @JR Ewing Hah, I remember Craig Muni playing for my hometown Spits! Very underrated d-man...man, when he set up someone in his sights....watch out, cause he could hit like a truck!! He used to shake the old glass at Windsor Arena with this special kind of THUMP...we called it the Muni-Thump!! He actually made a different type of sound when his opponent hit the boards. That boy hit to hurt!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 @JR Ewing Hah, I remember Craig Muni playing for my hometown Spits! Very underrated d-man...man, when he set up someone in his sights....watch out, cause he could hit like a truck!! He used to shake the old glass at Windsor Arena with this special kind of THUMP...we called it the Muni-Thump!! He actually made a different type of sound when his opponent hit the boards. That boy hit to hurt!! Yeah, he didn't play games out there, that's for sure. Had a penchant for low hits, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah, he didn't play games out there, that's for sure. Had a penchant for low hits, unfortunately. Yes, he was always very dirty. He destroyed some careers even before finishing his OHL career. I saw at least 3 players carted off the ice when he played for Windsor, and many of them, some very dirty hits. He started at least 2 brawls that I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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