JagerMeister Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Im not sure about you guys, but he always seemed quite a bit overrated to me. I mean, this guy gets praised for that one season in which he won every trophy a forward could possibly win besides the Art Ross.Ofc, when Mcdavid joins the league, he will win the Norris and Vezina as well, anyways, back to the topic.Besides that though? Another season in which he won the Selke and then......Above average play for a couple of years.... and then mediocrity. Oh and btw, in those "above average years" he was also outplayed by a 30 year old Yzerman.Sergei Fedorov is constantly praised for his defensive play, but again, a 30 year old Yzerman was gaining more selke votes then a mid 20s Fedorov. And please, tell me about his playoff performances. 20 points in 4 consecutive years you say? Um....do you forget about all the talent he was surrounded by?He was "only" a PPG three times in the playoffs.And arguably, he was never the best player during his playoff performances, or so I have been told by a few Red wings fans. Maybe a detroits fan here can confirm otherwise. Seriously, i think there are compliers that were consistenly great for a number of years I would put over Fedorov's one peak wonder season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 In his best years he was amazing and contract years, he seemed to up his game. But he seemed to float a bit to me at other times. That contract the Canes offer sheeted to him was hilarious. It was designed to screw over Illitch into not signing it. Rofl, 14 million dollar signing bonus and additional 12 million dollar bonus if they make the conference finals. The canes had no shot at that, but the red wings were almost a lock to and matched the contract. He made 28 million dollars that year for a total of 43 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 He was in a lot of ways a caricature of everything that is wrong with Euro's, a forerunner of Radulov and his ilk. Make his money, get soft, more than a little flaky, But wow could he play. He was the leagues best rookie skater his rookie year, finishing second to Eddie the Eagle for the Calder in spite of a 79 point performance. He won the Hart in 1994, (56-64-120 plus 48) in a season that was admittedly out of line with the rest of his career, simply miles above the rest of his career. No other season was anywhere near close, breaking 100 points only one other time. He won the Selke twice. He won three cups. The ridiculous comment denigrating his having four consecutive 20 point postseasons is not worth answering. How many players have ever done that? Seriously? In 183 career playoff games he had 176 points. A point a game in the postseason when defenses tighten up. It is not his fault that his defense paled in comparison to a teammate simply because the teammate, Yzerman had bought into the Bowman way and had remade himself into one of the games best two way forwards. But if Yzerman was number 1A Federov was 1B. His top ten comps of all time are, Mogilny, the Big M, Messier, Trottier, Alfie, JR, Oates, Beliveau, Tkachuk and Mikita. Sounds like a HOFer to me. His decline was quick and painful to watch when he left Detroit, his Columbus years were nearly unwatchable. Of course by then he was 36, way past the age when a lot of players are spending winters on the golf course. He signed that absurd contract, he annoyed Wings fans (myself included) by never living up to his amazing Hart winning season, but he was a hell of a player for a long time and deserves to be remembered for such. I do not understand the fallacy of stating that it is somehow Federov's fault that he had HOFer teammates, that somehow that takes away from his career. If anything I think he was underrated because he played in Yzermans shadow and held out and acted like a spoiled Russian and dated female tennis players and had only the one huge year, everything else he did seems to have been forgotten when in truth, what he did was a lot. He was a hell of a hockey player and money in the postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 @yave1964 I was still quite young, not very knowledgeable on the doings of the NHL as a whole, hockey in Tampa Bay was still this 'new thing'.....but even I was aware of Sergei Fedorov. By the time I became a solid overall league fan, Fedorov was in his declining years, and I often found myself wondering how a guy who performed so well when I remembered him as a young Red Wing could fall so far. I will not even pretend to know where I think he ranks in the annals of history, or even whether he was overrated or underrated.But I will say this:I remember a Sergei Fedorov that was fast, had a move for just about every defenseman they put in front of him, a prolific goal scorer, a guy that it seemed, the post season came so natural to him as a stage to perform, and a guy who seemingly made every other NHL GM wonder where THEY could look in the frozen tundra of the lands of the former Soviet Union and find THEIR Fedorov. Regardless of how his career ended up, my main memories of him, though a bit fuzzy due to my youth at the time, were ones of a really awesome hockey player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'll go back to the Keltner List... 1. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player in hockey while he played?Commonly? No, I don’t think so.2. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player at his position while he played?Again.3. Was he ever among the top 10 leaders in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)Yes. Fedorov finished 3rd in Goals in 1994, 9th in Assists in ‘96, and twice for Points (‘94 and ‘96) [1]4. Did the player ever lead the league in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)No. [1]5. Did he retire as the all-time leader leader in any key stats?No, as well. [1]6. Did he retire in the top 10 leaders in any key stats?No. [1]7. Did he ever have an impact on a deep playoff run?Yes, in the earlier cited years of 95 thru 1998, as well as 2002. [2]8. Was he a key member of a Stanley Cup winner?Yes, in 1997, ‘98, and 2002. [3]9. Was he ever a team Captain?No [3]10. Was he ever team Captain of a Stanley Cup winner?Nope. [3]11. Did many regard him to be an excellent defensive player?I’ve never heard of anybody who DIDN’T think he was an excellent defensive player. Won the Selke in 1994 and ‘96, was a top 5 finisher 3 times, top ten 3 more times, and a pile of years with votes. [4]12. Did many regard his physical play/hitting to be an intimidating factor? (NOTE: We're not looking for pests here)Not really. [4]13. Did he play a lot/well after he passed his prime?He scored 41 pts in 68 games at 38 and 33 in 52 at 39. Yes. [5]14. Was he ever elected to the 1st or 2nd All-Star team?He was a member of the 1st AS team in 1994. [6]15. Are many any other players with similar statistics in the HHOF?As yave mentioned, the most statistically similar players have names like Mahovlich, Messier, Trottier, Beliveau, Oates and Mikita. This is an easy yes. [7]16. Did he win a Hart, Lindsay, Norris or Vezina Trophy? (NOTE for goalies: prior to 1982, use 1st All-Star selections)Fedorov won the Hart and Lindsay in 1994. [8]17. Did he win a Conn Smythe Trophy? (pre-1965: see resources)No. [8]18. Is there any evidence to suggest (due to circumstances beyond his control) that he was significantly better than is indicated by his statistics? (NOTE: We're looking for things like time missed due to global conflict, world politics, league wars, etc... NOT INJURY!)Fedorov was probably ready to play in the NHL at 18, but would have been held back by global politics. BUT… The Wings are pretty famous for not playing kids. I’m going to say no, but think that arguments could be made here, between the above and lockouts, which cost him about 120ish games and roughly 100 points.[8]19. Did the player bring bring positive and intense focus on the game of hockey?No, not really. [8]20. Was the player innovative, inspire a new style of play, or cause the league to change any of its rules as a result of the way he played?No. [8] Fedorov shows as one hell of a hockey player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 He certainly didn't play inspired hockey at all times, but no, I do not think he was overrated. He was an excellent two-way forward, and when he really got down to business, he was highly effective. If he were on a team I coached, I'd be ticked off at him at times, no doubt, but I wouldn't want to get rid of him. Btw, @JR Ewing, what constitutes a good/bad/great score on that list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Monet Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 A huge testament to his game that has not been mentioned is when he played DEFENCE during one of the cup runs. They guy was a great player,regardless of being Russian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 In his best years he was amazing and contract years, he seemed to up his game. But he seemed to float a bit to me at other times. That contract the Canes offer sheeted to him was hilarious. It was designed to screw over Illitch into not signing it. Rofl, 14 million dollar signing bonus and additional 12 million dollar bonus if they make the conference finals. The canes had no shot at that, but the red wings were almost a lock to and matched the contract. He made 28 million dollars that year for a total of 43 games The one thing you forgot to mention was, he lead the entire NHL in playoff goals that year and was a key contributor to the Wings second straight cup. So, outrageous money, but in the end, money well spent. He had the ultimate leverage with a super rich owner and no salary cap, and he made the most of it...kudos to him and his agent, who reacted with excellent strategy for Federov. Only 3 players have ever had 4 consecutive 20+ point playoff production.... 1)Bryan Trottier2)Mike Bossy3)Sergi Federov Plus, this little feather in his cap.. quote from Stevie Y " Sergi is the most talented player I have even seen play" and Ray Bourque "Sergi is a franchise player, once he gets a step on you, you cannot catch him, not many d-men in this league have a chance at catching him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 He was in a lot of ways a caricature of everything that is wrong with Euro's, a forerunner of Radulov and his ilk. Make his money, get soft, more than a little flaky, But wow could he play. He was the leagues best rookie skater his rookie year, finishing second to Eddie the Eagle for the Calder in spite of a 79 point performance. He won the Hart in 1994, (56-64-120 plus 48) in a season that was admittedly out of line with the rest of his career, simply miles above the rest of his career. No other season was anywhere near close, breaking 100 points only one other time. He won the Selke twice. He won three cups. The ridiculous comment denigrating his having four consecutive 20 point postseasons is not worth answering. How many players have ever done that? Seriously? In 183 career playoff games he had 176 points. A point a game in the postseason when defenses tighten up. It is not his fault that his defense paled in comparison to a teammate simply because the teammate, Yzerman had bought into the Bowman way and had remade himself into one of the games best two way forwards. But if Yzerman was number 1A Federov was 1B. His top ten comps of all time are, Mogilny, the Big M, Messier, Trottier, Alfie, JR, Oates, Beliveau, Tkachuk and Mikita. Sounds like a HOFer to me. His decline was quick and painful to watch when he left Detroit, his Columbus years were nearly unwatchable. Of course by then he was 36, way past the age when a lot of players are spending winters on the golf course. He signed that absurd contract, he annoyed Wings fans (myself included) by never living up to his amazing Hart winning season, but he was a hell of a player for a long time and deserves to be remembered for such. I do not understand the fallacy of stating that it is somehow Federov's fault that he had HOFer teammates, that somehow that takes away from his career. If anything I think he was underrated because he played in Yzermans shadow and held out and acted like a spoiled Russian and dated female tennis players and had only the one huge year, everything else he did seems to have been forgotten when in truth, what he did was a lot. He was a hell of a hockey player and money in the postseason.Yea, a past his prime Yzerman outplayed Fedorov in his prime. someone who should have been having much more impressive seasons given the talent he possessed, instead, we got one all time season. and in that one season, he won every single award he has in his career. He should have had a couple more seasons like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 10 30+ goal seasons in the NHL - #48 all time among NHL scorers .94 ppg in the NHL regular season .96 ppg in the NHL postseason (yes, his ppg goes up in the postseason) One could say he stayed around too long, but "overrated?" I suppose it depends how one rated him in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 He was in a lot of ways a caricature of everything that is wrong with Euro's, a forerunner of Radulov and his ilk. Make his money, get soft, more than a little flaky, His top ten comps of all time are, Mogilny, the Big M, Messier, Trottier, Alfie, JR, Oates, Beliveau, Tkachuk and Mikita. Sounds like a HOFer to me. His decline was quick and painful to watch when he left Detroit, his Columbus years were nearly unwatchable. Of course by then he was 36, way past the age when a lot of players are spending winters on the golf course. Sidenote: One of the things that bugged me was that Mogilny would have been the first Russian player to hit 1000 points if not for his back problems (during his time in Toronto of course). I kept watching Fedorov slowly creeping up on him and eventually Fedorov got that distinction. It's a shame because of the three, Bure and Fedorov get talked about all the time. Mogilny is like the forgotten one, and he was a better point producer than Fedorov. Bure got tons of goals, but Mogilny showed that (when he cared), he was right at that level too. Part of the issue I notice with Russian players is that they're not as "into it" as North American players are. They always seem somewhat aloof. When they're interested and motivated, they can be great. But they also have a tendency to coast for long stretches of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 It's a shame because of the three, Bure and Fedorov get talked about all the time. Mogilny is like the forgotten one I wonder what the consensus on this would be. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I really didn't have that impression myself. I always thought he was pretty well respected. I'm hoping others are still paying attention to this thread because it's possible it's just me. I personally would have put Mogilny above Bure. I was never as impressed as some with Bure. I thought Bure was a one trick pony. Granted, a very good one trick, but one trick nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I wonder what the consensus on this would be. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I really didn't have that impression myself. I always thought he was pretty well respected. I'm hoping others are still paying attention to this thread because it's possible it's just me. I personally would have put Mogilny above Bure. I was never as impressed as some with Bure. I thought Bure was a one trick pony. Granted, a very good one trick, but one trick nonetheless. From the small bit that I watched the three play (keeping in mind I was still a noob fan and mostly local with my Bolts) and from what I have read over the years after becoming a serious fan of the NHL, seems to me that the PERCEPTION is one of "No one remembers Alexander Mogilny".....but I think that is simply because between he, Fedorov, and Bure, Mogiliny was the LEAST flashiest. The guy still got the job done, but just did so in a much more quiet manner.....whereas a guys like Fedorov and Bure were ALWAYS in the headlines...when they scored, people went on and on about them...when they didn't, the headlines were all about "What's wrong with Fedorov/Bure?"Meanwhile, Alexander Mogilny, whether as a Sabre, Canuck, Devil, or Leaf, just went about his business putting up goals...sometimes spectacular amounts, sometimes so-so amounts, but he was more consistent of the three.....and I think with that, he DID have the respect more-so as a pro, from his peers and the sport, than the other two Russian players mentioned here. It may not fair, but unwritten history (the stuff in people's minds) tends to favor the players with 'style' or 'pizazz'....of which guys like Bure, and especially Fedorov, had in abundance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 I wonder what the consensus on this would be. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I really didn't have that impression myself. I always thought he was pretty well respected. I'm hoping others are still paying attention to this thread because it's possible it's just me. I personally would have put Mogilny above Bure. I was never as impressed as some with Bure. I thought Bure was a one trick pony. Granted, a very good one trick, but one trick nonetheless. Bure could score any way. Brett Hull is a true one trick pony IMO. Anyways, before injury, Bure was actually starting to develop a decent two way game believed it or not, and would lay some good hits every now and then. As for Moginly, i would still put Bure over him. But Moginly himself was a pretty decent two way player for alot of his career, and arguably peaked higher then Bure. But a couple reasons why I would take Bure over Moginly. Bure was a much more impressive playoff performer, Moginly seemed to dissapear during the post season. Both didnt have the best talent surrounding them, but I believe Bure had to work with much worse linemates. I did say Moginly ARGUABLY had a better peak. Because Lafontaine was also his linemate, and he did even better, Bure has never had the fortune of playing with a talent like lafontaine. Even then, that didnt stop Bure from putting back to back 60 goal seasons, and then almost repeating that again in the dead puck era, with an even worse team, with worse linemates, and this was post injury Bure!!! But yeah, Moginly is underrated. And Bure can get a little romanticized because of how entertaining of a player he was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I wonder what the consensus on this would be. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I really didn't have that impression myself. I always thought he was pretty well respected. I'm hoping others are still paying attention to this thread because it's possible it's just me. I personally would have put Mogilny above Bure. I was never as impressed as some with Bure. I thought Bure was a one trick pony. Granted, a very good one trick, but one trick nonetheless. I like to think of Mogilny as sort of being halfway between Bure and Fedorov. He didn't score as much as Bure (usually) because he opted instead to be more of a playmaker (like Fedorov). Fedorov had more defensive responsibilities as a center, while Mogilny and Bure could cherry pick a lot more, but Fedorov played on a dynasty in Detroit, surrounded by legends, while Bure wasted away on the Florida Panthers and New York Rangers (before either were good), and Mogilny wasted away in Buffalo and Vancouver (both during their down years). Not to knock Bure or Fedorov, but I think all three were essentially at the same level. Memorable points that emphasize Mogilny's skill: He scored 76 goals while playing with LaFontaine -- the only period of time in his NHL career that he would ever play alongside a #1 centerman.He filled in for an injured Bure in Vancouver, and scored 55 goals for the Canucks. (The two rarely or never played together because Bure tore his ACL only a few games into the season and missed the entire year.) So Mogilny's "Bure impression" was pretty good. When asked to fill the role of Bure, he did so.Mogilny is a member of the Triple Gold club.Mogilny has a career PPG > 1Mogilny (despite increasing back problems and games missed) was able to unseat Mats Sundin as the Leafs scoring leader, the only player to do so during Sundin's tenure with the Leafs.While Bure usually scored more, he also took a lot more shots than Mogilny. Mogilny's shooting accuracy was frightening. He could shoot as hard as Bure, and he could put the puck wherever he wanted it. During the year he scored 76 goals, his shooting percentage was 21.1%. It also marked the only time in his career that he would register > 300 SOG. "Alex, I think, was the strongest. He has the most agility, the quickest release and the best shot...the leader of our line."—Sergei Fedorov, who played on a line with Mogilny and Pavel Bure internationally. Mogilny gets point #1000, on a night where he scored 3 points: Rare footage of the three playing together: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 During much of his NHL career, he was one of the best defensive forwards, short-handed scoring threats and face-off men in hockey. So, is he overrated? Hell, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah, forget Mogilny for a second. Of course Federov is not overrated. Let's discuss something less silly like "does it get darker at noon than at night?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I wonder what the consensus on this would be. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I really didn't have that impression myself. I always thought he was pretty well respected. I'm hoping others are still paying attention to this thread because it's possible it's just me. I personally would have put Mogilny above Bure. I was never as impressed as some with Bure. I thought Bure was a one trick pony. Granted, a very good one trick, but one trick nonetheless. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yeah, forget Mogilny for a second. Of course Federov is not overrated. See? Forgotten already! Anyway, I think the consensus is that Fedorov was an awesome hockey player with an all-around great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 See? Forgotten already! Anyway, I think the consensus is that Fedorov was an awesome hockey player with an all-around great game.LMAO yeah. I don't want to forget Mogilny, of course, but I read the thread title again and just had the WTF? feeling all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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