Re-Signing Voracek

intheslot · July 30, 2015

Thanks for all the Fish ... !!!!!!!!

radoran · July 30, 2015

@radoran

You're probably right.

I just took a look at Logan Couture's path to the NHL: 9th overall, 2 more full years in Junior and then 2/3 of an AHL season before getting the call. 56 points the following year, 4 years after being drafted.

Jeff Skinner is the opposite - straight to the NHL with a lousy team 63 points. Did it hurt his development? We shall see.

That was where I found the relationship with Laughton (more than their talent level). Hextall seems to take a view that most players need more time to make the jump to a "professional" level career.

Other teams seem to fling guys into the fray and let chips fall where they may.

Skinner is a good example. Gagner could be another.

There ARE guys who can do it - but they're not found at every pick in every draft.

Podein25 · July 30, 2015

Hextall seems to take a view that most players need more time to make the jump to a "professional" level career.

He's absolutely right, of course, for the vast majority. It takes a special player. Is TK that kind of special? Maybe, but likely not.

It's changing though. Because of the pace of the game, young smart players of skill can succeed earlier than they ever could before. I guess I'm just excited by the speed and skill that we have in our prospects right now. Well done Ron.

radoran · July 30, 2015

Because of the pace of the game, young smart players of skill can succeed earlier than they ever could before.

And because of the cap, it's important to have that sort of talent available at a reasonable cap hit.

I guess I'm just excited by the speed and skill that we have in our prospects right now. Well done Ron.

Aside from the Hartnell/Umburglar trade, I've been very happy with Hextall.

Podein25 · July 30, 2015

And because of the cap, it's important to have that sort of talent available at a reasonable cap hit.

Yes, I was going to say that, but that's countered by the loss of one year on the ELC and earlier to RFA.

mojo1917 · July 30, 2015

Like Brelic said, you have decide who is part of your core and who is not. I think Jake is and should continue to be. If he walks then that just means that you have to wait and hope that another piece will happen along to replace the piece you just lost. Right now, the Flyers do not have anyone in the system who projects to be a top line winger. Konecny is the only one that seems like even a possibility.

this x 1000

I felt like last year was the year the light went on for Jake in a number of areas, first and foremost for me is he took ownership of this role on the team. He sees himself as a leader now and his play has reflected this maturity. He saw the result of not pounding the good czech beer and ma's pierogies last year. He took losses hard, he stuck up for himself and his mates and that is not his game. I think as a boss i reward a guy i see putting out like that. As far as his production goes, the scoring for everyone not named Crosby is down, there may not be too many 100 pt players anymore unless some tweaks are made or current rules are enforced... Jake has steadily risen the on the list of top scoring players and last year finished in the top 5 so while he didn't break 30 goals he still was among the elite. I'm fine with whatever deal he gets/got. i like him i think he's a guy that doesn't "Richards" after signing the big deal.

jammer2 · July 31, 2015

The promising thing about Hextall, is his moves (at least on the surface, from the outside looking in) have the makings of a "master plan". It's not fly by the seat of your pants GM'ing like Homer did. He has a vision, realizes that it takes time to carry it out, and makes his moves accordingly. It gives me hope. There is no Homerism's......like "OH...look at the shiny toy" or "there is still gas left in the tank, I just know it" kinda crap. There is forethought in regards to the cap. He does not go over the cap and put himself in a position of weakness. There is a hard cold ruthlessness to his behaviour. I like that. He does appear to let his heart dictate his moves, a thing that Homer was famous for. The 3 year deal that Homer was attempting to give Cleary would never, ever been even thought of, much less offered. Meanwhile, the Wings are looking for ways to rid themselves of Cleary, with his knee on knee injuries and decreased speed. Just another example of how Homer would have screwed this franchise.

murraycraven · August 4, 2015

I gotta ask the question here bc I have been thinking about it since the deal was announced. Is it reasonable to expect Voracek to struggle out of the gate this year?

Big contracts can be a burden and an adjustment for some players....

Claude Monet · August 4, 2015

Nope. Euros are not greedy capitalist bastards that only care about money. His agent got fair market value and that is it. Jake just wants to be the best hockey player he can be.

OccamsRazor · April 5, 2019

On 7/29/2015 at 9:57 AM, radoran said:

The Couturier extension is a solid move and the lack of a NTC/NMC is refreshing to see.

It also highlights a bit just how underpaid Simmonds is on this current deal (one of Homer's best signings).

I don't know that the cap goes up all that much given the state of the Canadian dollar.

And that $14.1M in dead space for VLC/Umburglar/MacDud really really hurts.

I do believe you will see some of the young D coming up on ELCs which will expand the space for others (there are only 4 Dmen listed and I'm not sure they all make it to the end of the year). Perhaps some of the forwards Brelic notes as well.

As for Jake, I'd like to see him come in around the $6M range - and that's pending him having a year consistent with last year and one that isn't so reliant on power play points. I'm leery of signing a big money, long term deal with a guy who still hasn't hit 25 goals in this league. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised to see Hextall ship him out if he can bring in a nice haul of younger, cheaper talent, especially if his camp is looking for much bigger money.

To be clear, I LIKE JAKE and would PREFER that he stays.

Funny look back on stuff like this....dude is still overpaid...

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...wish we could find the delorean and go back in time and trade Jake...what might have been...

OccamsRazor · April 5, 2019

On 7/29/2015 at 11:50 AM, radoran said:

I wouldn't give a guy who has yet to score more than 23 goals in this league $8M a year.

YMMV

5 years, $6M a year (tops) and he's able to get another big money deal at age 30.

If he wants $8M, shop him.

Should have made you GM...

FD19372 · April 5, 2019

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

5 years, $6M a year (tops) and he's able to get another big money deal at age 30.

Even 5 years, $6M per year is a lot IMHO for 2nd line player that disappears for half of the game and doesn't play defense.

OccamsRazor · April 5, 2019

15 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Even 5 years, $6M per year is a lot IMHO for 2nd line player that disappears for half of the game and doesn't play defense.

And has only scored 23 goals....once...yeah...should have traded him when they could...then he wouldn't still be in Philly choking...

mojo1917 · April 5, 2019

11 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

And has only scored 23 goals....once...yeah...should have traded him when they could...then he wouldn't still be in Philly choking...

No he'd be somewhere, producing as he does here or maybe more.. and everyone here would be pining away for the days when Voracek was here.

Unless he has that Carter thing, lot of people hated Carter because he didn't have a good "effort face" , maybe he has has a Carter thing and Philly fans just hate him regardless.

Point being, he'd be somewhere playing and whomever we got in a trade would be disappointing in some fashion. It's kind of how things go.

OccamsRazor · April 5, 2019

52 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

No he'd be somewhere, producing as he does here or maybe more.. and everyone here would be pining away for the days when Voracek was here.

Nope can't see it.

But i have an idea to test that theory...let's trade him for a nice return and see what happens...

53 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Unless he has that Carter thing, lot of people hated Carter because he didn't have a good "effort face"

Nah i don't recall that but i won't speak for everyone and i didn't hate Carter.

I did hate that he would come into the zone zone wide open and just skate around the net and then from the worse low percentage angle possible he would take a shot goal usually it would be when no Flyers was nearby to even have a chance at the rebound.

Seems somehow someone in LA got him to stop doing that...not sure how but as many times as i have watched him play in LA i never seen that play...it was strange. But hey he won two Cups.

Jake will never win a Cup.

And if he does please feel free to come back and remind me.

58 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Point being, he'd be somewhere playing and whomever we got in a trade would be disappointing in some fashion.

I sure hope not he has some value i want a good return. No one is clamouring for a JVR/Schenn sequel.

OccamsRazor · April 6, 2019

This guy just won't shut his pie hole...dude just say no comment...if ever there was a time now would be it...

“I think even if you don’t try, I don’t think it could be that bad,“ Jakub Voracek said Friday. “It was probably the worst period I was a part of in 11 years.”

“I was trying to wrap my head around it, but I couldn’t,” Voracek said. “There was nothing there yesterday — skill wise, playing wise, skating wise, battle wise. It was really disappointing. You guys ask me what we need to do. I don’t f---ing know.”

It seems he doesn't think he is one of the main reasons they are on the outside looking in.

In just the last 10 games he has 1 and two assist and -7 in those games, not what you want from a winger making 8.25 mill per season.

I get it the mic is in your face but sometimes it's best to say nothing at all. I really think it is time to find him a new address.

I would trade him to Minnesota for Jared Spurgeon...i think he could be a good vet for the blueline.

Then find a new address for Hagg to make room.

Spurgeon is only under contract for next year for 5.1 mill.

Provorov - Spurgeon

Sanheim - Gudas

Ghost - Myers

Morin - Friedman

That is a bad top 4 pair.

Ugh just spitballing on a slow beautiful saturday with no real hockey to look forward too.

Don't even know if Minny would need/take Jake.

ruxpin · April 6, 2019

11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

This guy just won't shut his pie hole...dude just say no comment...if ever there was a time now would be it...

Depends on his intent. I actually think it's the perfect time, but only because I'm working under the assumption that he is deliberately putting himself in position to get traded. I mean he's basically asking for a trade without saying the words, "trade me!"

To me, he clearly wants out.

I would like to see him obliged.

OccamsRazor · April 6, 2019

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I actually think it's the perfect time, but only because I'm working under the assumption that he is deliberately putting himself in position to get traded.

Well i sure hope Fletcher is taking note.

Trade him for the vet D man and then go sign a free agent RW.

I would look at a guy like Gustav Nyquist...sure not in Jake realm of production stand point when Jake puts up 80.

But as rad and i agreed on in reality Jake is more like a 65-70 point player.

Gustav has put up 58 so it isn't that far off. Plus Nyquist gets most of his production 5 on 5.

Nyquist over the past 3 year -3. Jake over the past 3 years -30.

And yeah i know +/-isn't the best indicator but it would be a decent start to send Jake packing at half the price.

If not Nyquist i would kick the tires on Zuccarello i have always liked his game.

Brett Connolly maybe even...there are options available...plus moving Jake would send a message that just because yo're under contract doesn't mean you're safe...

Algdun · April 6, 2019

Jake has a big contract doesn't he? Might make him hard to trade.

Algdun · April 6, 2019

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

This guy just won't shut his pie hole...dude just say no comment...if ever there was a time now would be it...

“I think even if you don’t try, I don’t think it could be that bad,“ Jakub Voracek said Friday. “It was probably the worst period I was a part of in 11 years.”

“I was trying to wrap my head around it, but I couldn’t,” Voracek said. “There was nothing there yesterday — skill wise, playing wise, skating wise, battle wise. It was really disappointing. You guys ask me what we need to do. I don’t f---ing know.”

It seems he doesn't think he is one of the main reasons they are on the outside looking in.

In just the last 10 games he has 1 and two assist and -7 in those games, not what you want from a winger making 8.25 mill per season.

I get it the mic is in your face but sometimes it's best to say nothing at all. I really think it is time to find him a new address.

I would trade him to Minnesota for Jared Spurgeon...i think he could be a good vet for the blueline.

Then find a new address for Hagg to make room.

Spurgeon is only under contract for next year for 5.1 mill.

Provorov - Spurgeon

Sanheim - Gudas

Ghost - Myers

Morin - Friedman

That is a bad top 4 pair.

Ugh just spitballing on a slow beautiful saturday with no real hockey to look forward too.

Don't even know if Minny would need/take Jake.

Ironic how Flyers worked to develop the young D, but watching them I think they need more size and physicality as a group. And, boy, did they get hammered in the goaltending dept. this year. Hart looks good. Hope he can continue next season as such, and they didn't burn the youngster out (like CBJ may have done with Steve Mason).

OccamsRazor · April 6, 2019

2 minutes ago, Algdun said:

Jake has a big contract doesn't he? Might make him hard to trade.

Not the worst. But yeah so including me and @radoran and @ruxpin might agree that is being overpaid on.

Some say he is making market value.

Myself it isn't even about money.

I just want a change to the top 6 and he is the guy I would single out first.

And his contract could make him hard to move especially if other GMs have noted the thing I have.

But somewhere I am hoping someone would take a chance on him thinking they can fix him.

And as stated a few times I would do it for a decent return not just to move him just to move him.

OccamsRazor · April 6, 2019

2 minutes ago, Algdun said:

Ironic how Flyers worked to develop the young D, but watching them I think they need more size and physicality as a group.

Yeah it is why I want to hold onto Morin.

I would move Hagg because all he seems to bring is hits which sometimes take him out of the play and then he still gets outmuscled in front of the net.

He reminds me of a Swedish version of Luke Schenn who skates better.

But with Morin looking pretty solid in his limited time I think Sam can provide what Hagg does and is cheaper and would allow them to open a spot for a veteran D man maybe.

OccamsRazor · April 6, 2019

Plus I want to give Friedman a shot too who can move the puck and also bring a snarl to the back end too.

He is a solid two way defensemen I want to see how high his ceiling may be.

Friedman also is one of the top guys in the AHL at drawing penalties. Let's see if it translates.

And he will require waivers next year.

radoran · April 6, 2019

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I just want a change to the top 6 and he is the guy I would single out first.

And his contract could make him hard to move especially if other GMs have noted the thing I have.

The thing about it that makes it an obvious choice for discussion at least is the lack of a NMC/NTC.

Retain $1-2M and I'll wager you could get a pretty nice price for Voracek - sliding scale of retention based upon the return.

Same sort of discussion works if you replace "Voracek" with "JVR."

I honestly don't believe they "shake it up" this year. Maybe MacDonald gets bought out/buried/traded for future considerations of a skate sharpening.

I think the organization as a whole believes that this team is better than it has been playing. I expect they will insert Quenneville given the opportunity. They will expect a disciplined, productive training camp and then a strong start to the season.

They've got four productive forwards 25+ - and Michael Raffl. They have three promising young defensemen under 25 - and Robert Hagg. And three promising young forwards under 25 - and Scott Laughton.

And they've got Hart. Gotta have Hart.

Add a vet defenceman - hasn't Holmgren always liked Bouwmeester? Snag a Hayes from Winnipeg and maybe a Duchene/Panarin if you're really in "win now" and you're ironically pretty much where Ron Hextall expected us to be - minus the team actually showing signs of consistent improvement along the way. Oh, and his getting fired.

So, we'll see.

Let's just say we can all generally agree that there is in fact a glass and it does have some amount of liquid in it.

OccamsRazor · April 6, 2019

34 minutes ago, radoran said:

I honestly don't believe they "shake it up" this year.

I agee.

34 minutes ago, radoran said:

I think the organization as a whole believes that this team is better than it has been playing.

Without doubt that tear the went on for a month and a half crawling out of the last spot in the standing and onto the cusp of a playoff spot has given them doubt about anything major.

I am sure they are thinking let's give them something besides an AHL coach and a better staff with a better system before doing anything drastic.

34 minutes ago, radoran said:

I expect they will insert Quenneville given the opportunity.

Sure give them the best coach on the market, so now if they come out sluggish next year struggle, once and for all we can say just blow this goddamn thing but ship Giroux to Uranus and go from there...piece by piece.