Top Defensive Players by Defensive Errors - Leafs Leaders - 2015-2016

[WordsOfWisdom]

Agree WOW. That game was hard to watch last night - the effort was not there. Disapointing.

 

All momentum from their recent winning streak has been lost now. They gave Boston four points in those two recent back to back games, of course they're always very generous to the Bruins. Now this loss has basically cemented their 16th position in the standings again. They have 7 wins -- fewest in the NHL -- and it appears that they have only one goalie they can rely on now. It's Reimer or bust.

[WordsOfWisdom]

Nov.30: TOR vs EDM

• (Shutout.)

Final score: 3-0 TOR. 

[BluPuk]

Awesome!!!!! 

 

Woot!! Woot!! 

[WordsOfWisdom]

Here are the updated results at the end of November:

 

 

 

Comments:

• Phaneuf's press for offence is costing him on the defensive side of things. Still an impressive season thus far.
• Holland is the Leafs only error-free regular.
• Bozak is the team's best player overall at TPM +12. Honorable mention to: JVR, Komarov, Holland, Lupul, Phaneuf, and Rielly.

[BluPuk]

Very interesting. Reimer and Bernier are our worst players in this stat. I wonder how other NHL teams would compare?  As far as Bozac goes, I wonder if it would cost his defensive stats to get a little offense from him? We neeed some offense.

 

Great stuff WOW, thanks. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

Very interesting. Reimer and Bernier are our worst players in this stat.

 

In terms of total errors made yes, but they also play more minutes than the skaters do. MPBE (Minutes Played Between Errors) is the true gauge here. In which case, Harrington is our worst player defensively.

 

I wonder how other NHL teams would compare?

 

Me too. Unfortunately I can't track this for all 30 teams. Not enough time. 

 

As far as Bozac goes, I wonder if it would cost his defensive stats to get a little offense from him? We neeed some offense.

 

Well Bozak does have 14 points. He's right up there with the team leaders. Unfortunately, this team doesn't have a #1 center like a Malkin. We have 2s and 3s. Bozak is a great #2 center.

 

I'm most disappointed with Kadri. He isn't scoring, and he sucks defensively as well. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

The other cool thing is that since TPM (True +/-) only punishes the player(s) directly responsible for each goal, you'll notice that most players on the Leafs are "+" players, even though it's a bad team overall. What this means is that a good player will always be a "+" player in TPM, no matter how good or how bad their team is. They will never be dragged up or down by their team.

 

When you look at Kadri, he takes lots of bad penalties that cost the Leafs goals, but it doesn't hurt his regular +/- because he's not on the ice when the goal is scored. It does however, count as a DE and it does hurt his TPM! So what gets missed by the traditional stats is caught by TPM.

 

I'm glad you enjoy the results. I'm fascinated by them as well.

[Podein25]

The other cool thing is that since TPM (True +/-) only punishes the player(s) directly responsible for each goal

 

 

Look, if you're too stupid to not get off the ice before the puck goes in, you deserve the minus! 

 

....a good player will always be a "+" player in TPM, no matter how good or how bad their team is. They will never be dragged up or down by their team.

 

 

Never? As in never ever? What about when multiple people on the line make mistakes that lead to a goal? Potentially all 5 guys can fail to make plays that would have stopped the goal, plus the goalie, of course. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

Look, if you're too stupid to not get off the ice before the puck goes in, you deserve the minus!

 

LOL.

 

Never? As in never ever? What about when multiple people on the line make mistakes that lead to a goal? Potentially all 5 guys can fail to make plays that would have stopped the goal, plus the goalie, of course.

 

Well.... if all 5 guys on the ice make a mistake, by the pigeonhole principle we know that our player in question made a mistake.

 

With +/-, you only have to be on the ice when a goal is scored against your team (at even strength or power play) to get dinged with a "-". That means that there's only a 20% chance that the player getting a "-" was actually responsible for the goal, and that's not counting the goalie either. It drops further if you include the goalie.

 

With TPM, you only get a "-" if you are directly responsible for the goal being allowed (with up to three different players getting a "-" on any one goal). That means:

• If you play on a team with a bad goalie that allows soft goals, the goalie gets the defensive error, not you.
• If you're the only good player on a weak line, your linemates get defensive errors but not you.

So yeah, in theory, it should work as described.   

[Podein25]

LOL.

Well.... if all 5 guys on the ice make a mistake, by the pigeonhole principle we know that our player in question made a mistake.

With +/-, you only have to be on the ice when a goal is scored against your team (at even strength or power play) to get dinged with a "-". That means that there's only a 20% chance that the player getting a "-" was actually responsible for the goal, and that's not counting the goalie either. It drops further if you include the goalie.

With TPM, you only get a "-" if you are directly responsible for the goal being allowed (with up to three different players getting a "-" on any one goal). That means:

• If you play on a team with a bad goalie that allows soft goals, the goalie gets the defensive error, not you.
  
• If you're the only good player on a weak line, your linemates get defensive errors but not you.
  

So yeah, in theory, it should work as described.

In theory. I think real hockey cannot be reduced to this formula.

[WordsOfWisdom]

In theory. I think real hockey cannot be reduced to this formula.

 

True. This is only meant to be a statistic. It's another means of gauging how good/bad a player is, taken with the usual grain of salt. In a perfect world, when I read the stats on a skater, I'd like to see this:

• GP
• G
• A
• PTS
• PIM
• DE
• TPM
• SOG
• S%
• ATOI

[WordsOfWisdom]

Dec.2: TOR vs WPG

1. Hunwick, Grabner
2. Komarov, Sparks
3. Kadri, Komarov
4. Phaneuf
5. Phaneuf, Matthias, Froese
6. Parenteau, Matthias, Gardiner

Final score: 6-1 WPG.

 

History repeating. Toronto gets blown out by Winnipeg again. Last year around this time, it cost Carlyle his job.  An awful mess of a game. On goal 5, even though the penalty to Phaneuf had expired, he wasn't able to get back into the play. Thus, same result. Terrible game by Matthias. Terrible games by Phaneuf and Komarov, right after I go off about how great they've been. Thirteen defensive errors handed out in this game. Wow. 

[BluPuk]

Man, a real flopper. A game like that pisses me off! No heart at all in the third period. Unacceptable; especially with the new kid in the net.

 

I wonder if Babcock will blow his stack. I sure would.....

 

P.S. - looking at the list, our best players were not very good at all - that can't happen on this team because we basically have no talent in the first place.

[WordsOfWisdom]

Man, a real flopper. A game like that pisses me off! No heart at all in the third period. Unacceptable; especially with the new kid in the net.

 

I wonder if Babcock will blow his stack. I sure would.....

 

P.S. - looking at the list, our best players were not very good at all - that can't happen on this team because we basically have no talent in the first place.

 

Goal #6 was the "all-star skills competition pylon skate" goal. Sparks has gotta be thinking "get me outta here!"  (The Marlies probably have better defence.) 

[AJgoal]

Look, if you're too stupid to not get off the ice before the puck goes in, you deserve the minus! 

 

I'm the master of getting a plus at the very end of a shift.

 

Maybe this summer I'll use my hockey streams archive to put this together for the Flyers. It is a really good look at things.

[BluPuk]

I'm the master of getting a plus at the very end of a shift.

 

Maybe this summer I'll use my hockey streams archive to put this together for the Flyers. It is a really good look at things.

 

That would be great @AJgoal. That would give us at least one team to compare against...

[WordsOfWisdom]

Maybe this summer I'll use my hockey streams archive to put this together for the Flyers. It is a really good look at things.

 

That would be interesting. We could compare players between teams. 

 

The guidelines I use for assigning defensive errors are in post #1 of this thread. There have been a few minor tweaks that may or may not have been included in that post, mostly due to the fact that in season two I assign anywhere from 1-3 errors per goal. During season one, it was 1 error per goal. The guidelines had to be modified to account for this change.

[WordsOfWisdom]

Dec.3: TOR vs MIN

1. Boyes

Final score: 1-0 MIN.

 

 

Boyes caught in the box on this one. Reimer didn't have much chance on that goal.

 

It is becoming apparent very quickly that the Leafs are going to need to address their scoring issues.

[BluPuk]

Yep, however I doubt that's going to happen any time soon. 

 

The pain, the pain....

[WordsOfWisdom]

Dec.5: TOR vs STL

1. Phaneuf

Final score: 4-1 TOR.

 

Terrible pinch by Phaneuf puts the Leafs behind early, but a great game by Kadri, Sparks, and co. helps to put away the Blues. 

[BluPuk]

Kadri's dropping the mitts was the key in this game IMHO. You could just see the whole team perk up after that. Almost a complete 180 from the first ten minutes. Very good win for us. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

Dec.8: TOR vs NJ

1. Polak
2. Froese

Final score: 3-2 (SO) TOR.

 

Polak and Froese get caught with penalties. Great deke by Kadri in the shootout!  

[BluPuk]

There's a game we should have won in regulation, but Sparks was great in net IMHO. Agree on Kadri, though. He is beginning to become the player we all hoped he would be.

 

Fingers crossed...  

 

It may be worth noting that we had two goals scored on us and neither one was Sparks' fault. Hmmmmm. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

There's a game we should have won in regulation, but Sparks was great in net IMHO. Agree on Kadri, though. He is beginning to become the player we all hoped he would be.

 

Fingers crossed...  

 

It may be worth noting that we had two goals scored on us and neither one was Sparks' fault. Hmmmmm. 

 

Given the play of Sparks, I think the writing is on the wall for the Bernier/Reimer tandem. 

[Podein25]

Polak and Froese get caught with penalties.

 

 

So with penalties, does a player who took a so-called "good" penalty by stopping a sure goal still score a DE? Similarly, can a player killing a penalty ever score a DE for, say, failing to clear the puck or something?