ruxpin Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Nahana: I don't think I'd want to increase the number of teams that make the playoffs. The "keep the interest" thing really doesn't work for me. This year, probably down to 9th still had a legitimate chance until maybe last week to sneak into 6th. And I know this is callous, but it's exactly what I and HF had said about the manager's not doing the full number of keepers: If you're out, you had the entire season to make moves, etc., to do better. You, for example, took over a terrible team from a previous manager. So you kept your interest by setting reasonable goals and trying to reach them and by making forward-looking moves that would make you competitive next year. I know we're not all wired the same, but as a team that really didn't have a legitimate chance this year, you kept yourself entertained in other ways and, by that measure, had a very productive, successful year. For others, maybe you can't make the playoffs, but you can see how high you can go. As opposed to the HF league where the consequences are greater (since you can drop to the Bantam division or whatever it's called), the "negative" consequences of going from 12th to 7th, in terms of the draft, really aren't that big. And really, 8 teams out of 12 making the playoffs is way too similar to 16 out of 20 or 24 or whatever it was making the NHL playoffs before expansion. I never liked that. It defeated the purpose of the regular season. It may still be too many in the NHL, actually, but at least there I get the economic argument. In NAHANA, that argument obviously doesn't exist. I don't want to insult any of the managers who had rough years this year. There is always going to be first and 12th place. It's just part of the beast. But as for interest, I can say that each of the struggling managers got back very quickly with trade offers (yes and no) or in response to private messages, so they were very much still paying attention. They were just having horrible years. With going to 14 teams next year, maybe we should consider the 8, though. I'd love to have just seven with 6th & 7th doing a "play in" round, but there's not time in the season for it. Plus, it would probably leave 1st and 2nd sitting around too long. My other problem with going to 8th is that there becomes no benefit to finishing 1st or 2nd and getting the bye. So even with 14 teams, I'd argue on the side of "interest" right along side of you, but would ultimately vote "no" against it because of the loss of the bye "reward." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 31 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Nahana: I don't think I'd want to increase the number of teams that make the playoffs. The "keep the interest" thing really doesn't work for me. This year, probably down to 9th still had a legitimate chance until maybe last week to sneak into 6th. And I know this is callous, but it's exactly what I and HF had said about the manager's not doing the full number of keepers: If you're out, you had the entire season to make moves, etc., to do better. You, for example, took over a terrible team from a previous manager. So you kept your interest by setting reasonable goals and trying to reach them and by making forward-looking moves that would make you competitive next year. I know we're not all wired the same, but as a team that really didn't have a legitimate chance this year, you kept yourself entertained in other ways and, by that measure, had a very productive, successful year. For others, maybe you can't make the playoffs, but you can see how high you can go. As opposed to the HF league where the consequences are greater (since you can drop to the Bantam division or whatever it's called), the "negative" consequences of going from 12th to 7th, in terms of the draft, really aren't that big. And really, 8 teams out of 12 making the playoffs is way too similar to 16 out of 20 or 24 or whatever it was making the NHL playoffs before expansion. I never liked that. It defeated the purpose of the regular season. It may still be too many in the NHL, actually, but at least there I get the economic argument. In NAHANA, that argument obviously doesn't exist. I don't want to insult any of the managers who had rough years this year. There is always going to be first and 12th place. It's just part of the beast. But as for interest, I can say that each of the struggling managers got back very quickly with trade offers (yes and no) or in response to private messages, so they were very much still paying attention. They were just having horrible years. With going to 14 teams next year, maybe we should consider the 8, though. I'd love to have just seven with 6th & 7th doing a "play in" round, but there's not time in the season for it. Plus, it would probably leave 1st and 2nd sitting around too long. My other problem with going to 8th is that there becomes no benefit to finishing 1st or 2nd and getting the bye. So even with 14 teams, I'd argue on the side of "interest" right along side of you, but would ultimately vote "no" against it because of the loss of the bye "reward." My post was not suggesting more teams make the playoffs. It was suggesting, since some have concern over "Tanking", that instead of rewarding the worst place team the #1 Draft pick, we give the #1 Draft picks in reverse order to whoever wins the consolation bracket. Whoever ins the consolation bracket immediately becomes 7th place after those who made the real playoffs and gets the 1st overall pick, 6th would be the consolation runner up and gets the 2nd overall, and so forth. Finishing dead last no longer has merit, as you get a mid round pick. Picks would be in the order of 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 In my case, I sold a lot of talent for extra picks, and I pretty much have no chance of winning the consolation bracket, and thus, the higher draft picks, especially given extenuating circumstances such as almost using my maximum 80 moves already. Someone with a deeper team will smoke me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 51 minutes ago, ruxpin said: You, for example, took over a terrible team from a previous manager. So you kept your interest by setting reasonable goals and trying to reach them and by making forward-looking moves that would make you competitive next year. I know we're not all wired the same, but as a team that really didn't have a legitimate chance this year, you kept yourself entertained in other ways and, by that measure, had a very productive, successful year. For others, maybe you can't make the playoffs, but you can see how high you can go. As opposed to the HF league where the consequences are greater (since you can drop to the Bantam division or whatever it's called), the "negative" consequences of going from 12th to 7th, in terms of the draft, really aren't that big. And really, 8 teams out of 12 making the playoffs is way too similar to 16 out of 20 or 24 or whatever it was making the NHL playoffs before expansion. I never liked that. It defeated the purpose of the regular season. It may still be too many in the NHL, actually, but at least there I get the economic argument. In NAHANA, that argument obviously doesn't exist. I don't want to insult any of the managers who had rough years this year. There is always going to be first and 12th place. It's just part of the beast. But as for interest, I can say that each of the struggling managers got back very quickly with trade offers (yes and no) or in response to private messages, so they were very much still paying attention. They were just having horrible years. I hear what you are saying @ruxpin. I can't speak for the NAHANA league, but from the HF league perspective up until 2 weeks ago in the Bantam League there were many playoff spots open. I know it was between 5 teams who would make the last 3 spots. I know, because I was one of those teams. I will also complete agree on what makes a successful year as determined by the GM. I took over a very crappy team with no realistic expectations of winning the league, ...however, I made a personal goal of trying to at least change the makeup of my team and tryo to make the playoffs. I fell short of my goal my 1 game. I needed to win last week to make the playoffs and I lost. However, I am super proud of going 7-6 in the last 13 week given the fact that I inherited a team that was 2-7 and going no where. Totally appreciate your point of view. IMO, I think it depends on the very structure of the league to determine how your playoff format is structured. That is what makes the NAHANA league unique and different as compared to the HF Leagues (All Star/Bantam) Even though I did not make the playoffs in the Bantam League...it was a blast trying too! And hopefully I scared the crap out of few GM's along the way. So for at least the HF League it works for us to have 8 out 12 teams make the playoffs. The neat thing though is next year we all start with a clean slate with new players and we can even change some of the rules on how the league operates. Would love to have you field a team with us next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 26 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said: My post was not suggesting more teams make the playoffs. It was suggesting, since some have concern over "Tanking", that instead of rewarding the worst place team the #1 Draft pick, we give the #1 Draft picks in reverse order to whoever wins the consolation bracket. Whoever ins the consolation bracket immediately becomes 7th place after those who made the real playoffs and gets the 1st overall pick, 6th would be the consolation runner up and gets the 2nd overall, and so forth. Finishing dead last no longer has merit, as you get a mid round pick. Picks would be in the order of 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 In my case, I sold a lot of talent for extra picks, and I pretty much have no chance of winning the consolation bracket, and thus, the higher draft picks, especially given extenuating circumstances such as almost using my maximum 80 moves already. Someone with a deeper team will smoke me. Okay, I misunderstood. So basically you're arguing that people would be more inclined to keep as strong a team until the very end to make even a feigned attempt at winning the consolation bracket to win that first pick. Maybe yes. It may also make it harder for the top teams to trade draft picks to poach the lower teams since now they'd want to keep their better players with the eye being on the "consolation" prize. I'm okay with that, I think. I'd have to think what the unintended consequences would be, but I currently can't think of any (other than the trade thing I mentioned, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, pilldoc said: So for at least the HF League it works for us to have 8 out 12 teams make the playoffs Thanks for your post. I really wasn't trying to talk about leagues in general, so my comments weren't intended as a knock on the HF league. You're right; it depends upon the league. I don't know enough about your league to speak in any knowledgeable way, but it *seems* from the outside that there are wrinkles there that make it make sense. Plus, with the two divisions it seems that the consequences (in terms of the following season) are greater. I don't think 8 of twelve makes sense in the NAHANA set-up. I think 8 of 14 is a slightly easier argument to make, but I do think there should be some difference between finishing first or finishing 8th. In real hockey, that difference is home ice. That's not a difference, obviously, in fantasy (arguably less and less of a difference in real hockey!). If we go to 8 teams, there isn't time for a bye week. In NAHANA, @hf101 would suddenly lose any benefit from fielding a really strong team all year long. As it was, last year I won the stinking thing from the 5th seed, so it can happen, but I had to just barely eke past the first round to do it. I just like there being some meaning to the regular season. To tell you the truth, that's what's made me watch less and less of the regular season in NHL hockey. There's large portions of the season that feel like an extended pre-season. You know? But this wasn't what @J0e Th0rnton was arguing for. I misunderstood him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 1 minute ago, ruxpin said: Thanks for your post. I really wasn't trying to talk about leagues in general, so my comments weren't intended as a knock on the HF league. No worries...I was never offended. I knew you were just making a comparison between the two leagues. 3 minutes ago, ruxpin said: . You're right; it depends upon the league. I don't know enough about your league to speak in any knowledgeable way, but it *seems* from the outside that there are wrinkles there that make it make sense. Plus, with the two divisions it seems that the consequences (in terms of the following season) are greater. yup you are absolutely correct. Playing in a keeper vs a non-keeper league involves 2 completely different set of mind-sets on you approach trying to win your league. My decision making would have been very different had I taken over this team and we were a keeper league. Anyway...don't worry about...no hard feelings. I never took it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 26 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Okay, I misunderstood. So basically you're arguing that people would be more inclined to keep as strong a team until the very end to make even a feigned attempt at winning the consolation bracket to win that first pick. Maybe yes. It may also make it harder for the top teams to trade draft picks to poach the lower teams since now they'd want to keep their better players with the eye being on the "consolation" prize. I'm okay with that, I think. I'd have to think what the unintended consequences would be, but I currently can't think of any (other than the trade thing I mentioned, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing). Well, the benefits to the idea are: Keeps teams out of the playoffs interested with a legitimate goal and it Completely eradicates any reason for tanking intentionally, which seemed to be a concern although that is not what I was doing. Rebuilding is different than tanking obviously. Stocking up on draft picks, trades for next year benefit, etc I would even be okay with the overall winner getting the top pick . HF did have a point that the winner gets nothing here, and why should the losers get the only rewards for next season, etc. If he wins it all, he gets nothing right now. In any case, it was just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 1 minute ago, J0e Th0rnton said: I would even be okay with the overall winner getting the top pick . HF did have a point that the winner gets nothing here, and why should the losers get the only rewards for next season, etc. If he wins it all, he gets nothing right now. I agree in part. Although, I won last year and didn't view it as getting nothing. I had a team loaded with keepers (like HF does this year, and I do again but to a lesser extent) and I made some mistakes with my keepers, but I didn't perceive it as a punishment or lack of reward. I was actually too excited to win the stinking thing (we're talking 12 year old excited) to care. The kind of cool thing was getting the 12th and 13th back to back. But HF won't even have that this year because of the expansion. The benefit will be winning. Other than that, there seems to be nothing to gain from it regarding next year other than having some really good keepers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I agree in part. Although, I won last year and didn't view it as getting nothing. I had a team loaded with keepers (like HF does this year, and I do again but to a lesser extent) and I made some mistakes with my keepers, but I didn't perceive it as a punishment or lack of reward. I was actually too excited to win the stinking thing (we're talking 12 year old excited) to care. The kind of cool thing was getting the 12th and 13th back to back. But HF won't even have that this year because of the expansion. The benefit will be winning. Other than that, there seems to be nothing to gain from it regarding next year other than having some really good keepers. Scratch that idea anyways. I just thought of a tremendous potential pitfall. Imagine Ladyneat wins the whole thing, but had previously traded me her 1st(6th) round pick. She would not only not get the benefit from it, but would draft next at like 24th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @pilldoc Good series doc. You had some unbelievable bad luck with injuries. I have no doubt it would have been razor close if not for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 4 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: @pilldoc Good series doc. You had some unbelievable bad luck with injuries. I have no doubt it would have been razor close if not for that Yeah..what are you gonna do? Injuries happen.... Good Luck next round. Hopefully some of my players can mend and find the back of the net. Really need to win this week. Always a fun series when we go head to head. You got me this year going 2-1 versus me. Congrats on a great win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @JR Ewing Good luck this week. Looks like ESPN pulled a fast one. I though I would be matched up with Inside Edge Hockey News...guess I'm wrong. I'm matched up with you. Winner stays in the All Star League and the loser gets to join the Bantam League. We went 1-1 during the regular season. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Needed a win and needed the highest scoring team in my other league to lose by 16+ points in an averaged league in order to make the playoffs. He lost by 16. But I lost my lead on the last day. Oh well. First time in a few years I missed in that league. Surprised I managed to beat JR this week. He'd put up huge weeks both times we played before. Now on to putting on the foil. I would have beaten him by one point last week. Should be a nail biter, followed by either hf or J0e next week. No matter what happens, nice that I overcame an 0-7 start and avoided relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: @JR Ewing Good luck this week. Looks like ESPN pulled a fast one. I though I would be matched up with Inside Edge Hockey News...guess I'm wrong. I'm matched up with you. Winner stays in the All Star League and the loser gets to join the Bantam League. We went 1-1 during the regular season. Good Luck! I figured it would match one of you vs Polaris, and one against IEHN. 54 minutes ago, AJgoal said: Needed a win and needed the highest scoring team in my other league to lose by 16+ points in an averaged league in order to make the playoffs. He lost by 16. But I lost my lead on the last day. Oh well. First time in a few years I missed in that league. Surprised I managed to beat JR this week. He'd put up huge weeks both times we played before. Now on to putting on the foil. I would have beaten him by one point last week. Should be a nail biter, followed by either hf or J0e next week. No matter what happens, nice that I overcame an 0-7 start and avoided relegation. Incredible comeback for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 hour ago, AJgoal said: . No matter what happens, nice that I overcame an 0-7 start and avoided relegation. totally awesome! Way to hang in there. agree with Joe...incredible comeback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @pilldoc @TropicalFruitGirl26 @ScottM Who advanced in Bantam this week? Been quiet on updates from there lol. P.S Scott, I got your book in the mail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I guess my crow of the week is for my work league. I finished first overall and had a hard fought battle against the guy who snuck into the last playoff spot. I managed to have my absolute worst week of the season this week. It's 12 categories, and we ended the week with me winning 5-3 and tying 4 categories. And the ones I won were razor close because of poor output. I average 10.5 goals a week and ended with 8. Not so bad there. But I average 18 assists per week and ended with 12, My team was 3rd best in +/- for the season and I ended the match -8. Can't complain about PIM's because that one I did well in. PPP on the other hand, I lead the league in, averaging 10 a week, and only had 4 this week. Nobody scored SHP, and he managed to come back last day and tie GWG. Brent Burns is a SOG God of destruction. Goaltending was a nightmare. Tampa and SJ played their backups more than Jones or Bishop, and the night I benched Bishop to maintain my GAA and Sv% he gets a shutout. If Dubnyk had played 10 more minutes and made 10 more saves last night, I would have lost. Hopefully, with that horrid week out of the way, my team will go back to normal. Knock on wood! I play the #7 guy this week, who is a friend of mine and he managed to Knock out my #2 strongest competition for top spot all year. THE HART FOUNDATION KEEPS GOING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said: @pilldoc @TropicalFruitGirl26 @ScottM Who advanced in Bantam this week? Been quiet on updates from there lol. P.S Scott, I got your book in the mail! Honestly, I'm not sure. It got lost in the shuffle for me. Hope you enjoy the book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @J0e Th0rnton @ScottM @TropicalFruitGirl26 Here is the link on HF.net to t he page we created for the HF.net league. I have brackets and everything.... enjoy! http://www.hockeyforums.net/fantasy/hf.net-fhl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, pilldoc said: @J0e Th0rnton @ScottM @TropicalFruitGirl26 Here is the link on HF.net to t he page we created for the HF.net league. I have brackets and everything.... enjoy! http://www.hockeyforums.net/fantasy/hf.net-fhl/ Very nicely done! Is it front page linked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 38 minutes ago, pilldoc said: @J0e Th0rnton @ScottM @TropicalFruitGirl26 Here is the link on HF.net to t he page we created for the HF.net league. I have brackets and everything.... enjoy! http://www.hockeyforums.net/fantasy/hf.net-fhl/ Looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 @J0e Th0rnton @JR Ewing Thanks. to access go to the top of the page. it the tab marked "fantasy" click on the tab. then click on "HF.net FHL" this will also point to the Playoff fantasy in a few weeks. Yes I have the link on the home page of the ESPN All Star Home page.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The Billyport Crips: Your NAHANA Regular Season Champion (Crowing now, because I really do think that's the end of the good news) Gripe: There are apparently other teams in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 With the way I completely lost track of this, I'm shocked that I made the playoffs. I don't know if that really counts as a crow, but there it is. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Real tight match up with Yave so far this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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