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The Gagner Dilemma


King Knut

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Started a new thread because I wanted to get opinions on the wider question.

 

So IMHO without question, Gagner has made himself invaluable and not only needs to be playing every night, but also is earning consideration for a new contract at the end of the year.

 

Alternatively the idea is that he's showing how good he can be so that we can trade him at the deadline for more picks.

 

My question is, if Sam maintains some degree of his current level of play isn't he worth keeping over a pick?

 

If not, how high a pick do we think we could get for him?  Surely no playoff team will have a top 10 pick.

 

 

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My question is, if Sam maintains some degree of his current level of play isn't he worth keeping over a pick?
 

 

he's playing exactly like the kind of player you want in your top 9, at the least.  that being the case, and given his age, there is literally zero upside to moving him, unless you are plugging a really specific hole.  which, a pick is not going to do.

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Through the 7 games played, he is looking like he wants a contract.  

That being said, let's see where he is at in 40 games.  

7 games is way to small of a sample for a guy that has underachieved since arriving in the NHL.

 

If after 40 games he is still performing at the same or better level, it will be a tough choice.  

I would shop him at the deadline to see what the return is.   If it's nothing earth shattering, then I would keep him but offer nothing more than a 2 year contract.  

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7 games is way to small of a sample for a guy that has underachieved since arriving in the NHL.

 

underachieved per the expectations of a 6th overall pick, but he has done alright if you just look at him as a 2nd/3rd line player.  i agree, though, no reason to do anything big with him.

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underachieved per the expectations of a 6th overall pick, but he has done alright if you just look at him as a 2nd/3rd line player.  i agree, though, no reason to do anything big with him.

As JR Ewing in here (a HUGE Oiler fan) has pointed out, they drafted him as a teen and ruined him by sticking him in a top six role on a wretched team. Rather than give him a chance they more or less threw him out there with lousy linemmates and set him on a path of failure. He really was not bad in Phoenix last year but the same thing, a rotten team with no idea what they had and they stuck him out there, after lsoign Hanzal for the year and trading Vermette Gagner played on the top line with the worst supporting cast in memory.

  In Philadelphia he is not expected to carry the team, he is allowed to be himself, kind of like Del Zotto who got lost in New York and buried in Nashville. The Flyers were a perfect landing spot for Gagner who is talented and capable if used right, something no team has ever managed to do. I think 20 ish goals, 50 points is very realistic possibly a bit more even. He is the kind of guy you need in the middle six. No way would I trade him, he finally seems to have the right team around him.

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If he plays all year the way he has for these first seven games, then I want to keep him.

 

HOWEVER, you have to consider moving him if, come the trade deadline, it becomes apparent that he's not going to re-sign. If he thinks he can go and get a big payday elsewhere, you may have to cut your losses and move him. Assuming, of course, that you are out of the playoff picture.

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They needed secondary scoring and he is providing that.  As AJ said, if it is apparent that they can sign him to a reasonable extension and he appears to have his career moving in the right direction, there is no need to trade him, unless there is an offer too good to pass up.  He is still young and he is currently providing something this team was missing last year, so at this point he is worth keeping.  It's still too early to make that call, but I like what he is showing so far!

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The primary question with Gagner is his contract.  I like him a lot as a "top nine" ("middle six"?) player, but if he insists on testing the FA waters I think they will deal him.

 

Last year before UFA, making $4.4M on a $3.2M cap hit. (How crazy is it that he'll be a nine-year veteran after this season?)

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Just a small correction - he's only played in 5 of the 7 games. And still managed 2g, 2a. 

 

If he keeps up what he's shown so far, he might realize that Philly is a good fit for him professionally. 

 

Testing the UFA waters might give him a nicer payday, but after his Edmonton and Arizona experiences, does he want to chance it? Will a new team, new coach, new city, new teammates be a good fit for him? 

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Just a small correction - he's only played in 5 of the 7 games. And still managed 2g, 2a.

If he keeps up what he's shown so far, he might realize that Philly is a good fit for him professionally.

Testing the UFA waters might give him a nicer payday, but after his Edmonton and Arizona experiences, does he want to chance it? Will a new team, new coach, new city, new teammates be a good fit for him?

I think not. Plus, players love to play in Philly. Few teams treat their players better, McCrossin notwithstanding.

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Just a small correction - he's only played in 5 of the 7 games. And still managed 2g, 2a. 

 

If he keeps up what he's shown so far, he might realize that Philly is a good fit for him professionally. 

 

Testing the UFA waters might give him a nicer payday, but after his Edmonton and Arizona experiences, does he want to chance it? Will a new team, new coach, new city, new teammates be a good fit for him? 

 

Player makes dumb choice. Film at 11.

 

Well, let's look at next season - presuming Umburglar and VLC are gone

 

??-Giroux-Voracek

??-Couturier-Simmonds

??-Laughton-Read

??-Bellemare-Vandevelde

 

The primary "problem" is that Gagner's C/RW skill set are all booked up. I'd like to give him some time at LW to see if he can make it, but that's an unanswered question.

 

Raffl, BSchenn and Gagner - who do you bring back and where do you put them?

 

Is Gagner's defense good enough that you deal Read? Would he still have the same secondary scoring on the third line?

 

How long does he want to sign for? How long do the Flyers want to sign him?

 

How do Konecny, Cousins, Leier, etc. fit into the planning?

 

I like Gagner so far, but we're months away from seeing a decision made and there are a lot of secondary things to be considered if his production keeps up.

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7 games is way to small of a sample for a guy that has underachieved since arriving in the NHL.
If after 40 games he is still performing at the same or better level, it will be a tough choice.

 

 

Well yeah, that was sort of the prerequisite for my question.

 

Frankly, if the guy can score a penalty shot once in a while, that alone might make him worth having around considering how many points they lost in the shootout last year. 

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In Philadelphia he is not expected to carry the team, he is allowed to be himself, kind of like Del Zotto who got lost in New York and buried in Nashville. The Flyers were a perfect landing spot for Gagner who is talented and capable if used right, something no team has ever managed to do. I think 20 ish goals, 50 points is very realistic possibly a bit more even. He is the kind of guy you need in the middle six. No way would I trade him, he finally seems to have the right team around him.

 

I feel like Del Zotto is the perfect analog.  A guy who got a bad reputation and was given up on and might just revel in the chance to show what he's got and that he can in fact consistently bring that.

 

Still can't figure out why so many gave up on MDZ.  He was just reaching the age where most D men start to show consistency.  I'm sure getting dropped and needing a job helped him refocus and keep his head screwed on straight. 

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My question is, if Sam maintains some degree of his current level of play isn't he worth keeping over a pick?

 

Those are question you can't answer right now with only 7 games in the book and not knowing what pick we're talking about. Anything now would just merely be guessing.

 

And it doesn't just cover Gagner it covers the whole team really...at every position...you'd have to think that they are in the retool mode still so i would think Hexy would listen to offers on everyone.

 

He's probably on the phone saying "Make me an offer......................"

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Still can't figure out why so many gave up on MDZ. He was just reaching the age where most D men start to show consistency. I'm sure getting dropped and needing a job helped him refocus and keep his head screwed on straight.

 

I think Lisa Ann might be able to shed some light on this.

 

MDZ was living the high life - perhaps a little too too much? Not focusing on the game?

 

He had a great rookie year, a sophomore slump, but then had - points-wise - two good seasons. Then his game looks like it fell off a cliff, he gets traded and buried in Nashville.

 

But when a team just outright dumps you as an RFA and you're still without a contract the next August there's some fire around that smoke.

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Well, let's look at next season - presuming Umburglar and VLC are gone
 
??-Giroux-Voracek
??-Couturier-Simmonds
??-Laughton-Read
??-Bellemare-Vandevelde

 

This is a good way to look at it Rad.   The whole left side needs suitors. 

I'd like to see Gagner on the left side with Girioux and Jake.  I thought that's where he was slotted in the summer but I was wrong. 

If that doesn't work, then try him at LW with Couturier and Simmonds. 

 

There is no room at center.

At RW Simmonds and Read beat him out for their own reasons.  

And in my opinion, he is at top 6 player.  So if he doesn't fit in on those lines then Hexy will hopefully shop him. 

But in the end, based on his current form he does deserve a chance to take either the 1LW or 2LW spots.

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This is a good way to look at it Rad.   The whole left side needs suitors. 

I'd like to see Gagner on the left side with Girioux and Jake.  I thought that's where he was slotted in the summer but I was wrong. 

If that doesn't work, then try him at LW with Couturier and Simmonds. 

 

There is no room at center.

At RW Simmonds and Read beat him out for their own reasons.  

And in my opinion, he is at top 6 player.  So if he doesn't fit in on those lines then Hexy will hopefully shop him. 

But in the end, based on his current form he does deserve a chance to take either the 1LW or 2LW spots.

 

 

By next year i would realistically imagine Leier will be ready to compete for a LW spot on this team...he would have 2 full year in the AHL under his belt it's time to give him a shot at it. He will be ready by then even if he has to start on the 4th line this team desperately needs a true LW.

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I'm in the let's let the guy play more than 5 games for us camp.

 

Saying that , so far I like what I see, I like that he's got some Briere in him, not afraid to loose the arrow as it were.

he's got top 6 skill and maybe with some good teammates will put it all together.  

 

the Oil did **** him up as they are wont to do .  so i hope he plays great and either nets us a nice trade return or fits with the team going forward.

it's a nice dilemma to have imo

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