Where Would You Rank Peter Stastny?

[ScottM]

 

Peter Stastny is one of the tougher players for me to rank. We all know that he was an impressive offensive talent. He was quite good at scoring and playmaking. Offense was his primary area of contribution, but he was a good enough defender to kill penalties as well. The thing that makes Stastny so tough to rank for me is the fact that he missed a few seasons in the NHL due to being born behind the iron curtain. He was 24 years old in his first NHL season, so it seems fair to assume that he lost three or four good years.

 

I have a few questions for you all with that in mind. Had he not been restrained from moving to North America earlier, what would his stats look like? Would he have added some more 100+ point seasons? What other players (especially centers) would you compare his level of play to. Generally speaking, where would you say he ranks among centers? (That one doesn't have to be an exact number. A rough estimate and an explanation of why will suffice.)

[JagerMeister]

 

Peter Stastny is one of the tougher players for me to rank. We all know that he was an impressive offensive talent. He was quite good at scoring and playmaking. Offense was his primary area of contribution, but he was a good enough defender to kill penalties as well. The thing that makes Stastny so tough to rank for me is the fact that he missed a few seasons in the NHL due to being born behind the iron curtain. He was 24 years old in his first NHL season, so it seems fair to assume that he lost three or four good years.

 

I have a few questions for you all with that in mind. Had he not been restrained from moving to North America earlier, what would his stats look like? Would he have added some more 100+ point seasons? What other players (especially centers) would you compare his level of play to. Generally speaking, where would you say he ranks among centers? (That one doesn't have to be an exact number. A rough estimate and an explanation of why will suffice.)

Peter Stastny as we're all aware, is one of the more underrated HHOF's, so its refreshing to see discussion about him.

 

Im uncertain if he would have added a few more 100 point seasons, But im assured that he would have been at minimum, a PPG player. As for comparisons, I have no say since I did not have the fortune of watching him play.

 

Now, here are the centers I would rank above him.

 

Irrefutable

 

Gretzky

Lemieux

Jean Beliveau

Stan Mikita

Howie Morenze

Bobby Clarke

Phil Esposito

Joe Sakic

Bryan Trottier

Steve Yzerman

Marcel Dionne

Sidney Crosby...

 

 

Debatable, uncertain.

 

Peter Forsberg and Eric Lindros

Peak play, Forsberg is superior but his career was riddled with career concluding injuries, same with Lindros.

 

Sergei Fedorov and Doug Gilmour

Two players that I believe had superior peak seasons (in their case, single seasons) But they were extremely inconsistent, unlike Stastny.

 

Joe Thornton

Likely to eclipse Stastny, one could argue he already has.

 

Ron Francis

One player that is superior in consistency both offensively and defensively, yet didnt exceed the offensive heights of Stastny. Even then, Francis had played with Jagr and Lemieux in his peak offensive season. But If someone coerced me into picking, marginally Francis.

 

So my estimate as to where i rank him would probably be between 14-25...

 

Sorry if my list was lacking in pre 1950 players, but I simply am not informed about the majority of their greatest players, with the exception of Howie Morenz

[ScottM]

@JagerMeister It looks like your train of thought is generally where I'm leaning. I've got the guys you mention in the same general vicinity as Stastny on the list that I'm working on.

 

Feel free to agree or disagree with this, but if you allow for him to have entered the league at 20 instead of 24, I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that he would have ended up with ~575 goals and ~1600 points. His numbers are already impressive, but those numbers would rank him much higher statistically than he is now. Personally, I think that when you consider the fact that many of the milestones he reached were reached more quickly only by the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, and Bossy, it proves that he was one of the greatest offensive talents ever. I mean, the guy scored more points in the 1980's than anyone not named Gretzky.

 

I guess my biggest question mark is his defensive play. He almost always seems to be viewed as a one-dimensional player, but the fact that he had 14 shorthanded points in his career suggests to me that he was trusted enough defensively to get some play there. Of course, that said, I think it's pretty clear that he's behind guys like Fedorov, Gilmour, Forsberg, and Francis that you mentioned above, since everyone of those guys were either a Selke winner or runner-up.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling now, but your points are valid, and I think they generally reinforce my gut feelings. I'll be playing around with this for a while though, so we'll see where it all lands.

[JagerMeister]

@JagerMeister It looks like your train of thought is generally where I'm leaning. I've got the guys you mention in the same general vicinity as Stastny on the list that I'm working on.

Feel free to agree or disagree with this, but if you allow for him to have entered the league at 20 instead of 24, I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that he would have ended up with ~575 goals and ~1600 points. His numbers are already impressive, but those numbers would rank him much higher statistically than he is now. Personally, I think that when you consider the fact that many of the milestones he reached were reached more quickly only by the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, and Bossy, it proves that he was one of the greatest offensive talents ever. I mean, the guy scored more points in the 1980's than anyone not named Gretzky.

I guess my biggest question mark is his defensive play. He almost always seems to be viewed as a one-dimensional player, but the fact that he had 14 shorthanded points in his career suggests to me that he was trusted enough defensively to get some play there. Of course, that said, I think it's pretty clear that he's behind guys like Fedorov, Gilmour, Forsberg, and Francis that you mentioned above, since everyone of those guys were either a Selke winner or runner-up.

Anyway, I'm rambling now, but your points are valid, and I think they generally reinforce my gut feelings. I'll be playing around with this for a while though, so we'll see where it all lands.

Another player I ommitted was Hawerchuk, completely forgot. I think they are comparable, hawerchuk has a marginally lower ppg but played 210 more games. Which means he had approximately 2 and a half more seasons of decline. Why I mention Hawerchuk is because during his first season, he was capable of amassing 100 points at 18, along with a subsequent 90 point season and 3 more 100 point seasons between the ages of 18-23. Hawerchuk peaked early, but who's to say Stastny couldn't have? Sorry for this unnecessary rambling, but I think what you say about Peter Stastny potentially accumulating that much points is not absurd. In fact, I think he could have been capable of exceeding ppg at the very least at 18, and then potentially a few 100 seasons before 24...

[jammer2]

 I would put Peter Stasney in the same company of Bernie Federko....maybe a bit higher than Bernie...but in and around that range. Another guy to compare him to is Darryl Sittler.

[ScottM]

 I would put Peter Stasney in the same company of Bernie Federko....maybe a bit higher than Bernie...but in and around that range. Another guy to compare him to is Darryl Sittler.

 

I haven't yet added Federko to the list since I just started last night, but Sittler is close to Stastny at the moment too.

[JagerMeister]

I would put Peter Stasney in the same company of Bernie Federko....maybe a bit higher than Bernie...but in and around that range. Another guy to compare him to is Darryl Sittler.

I would say Stastny is undeniably superior to those two...his ppg is noticeably larger then either player.

[jammer2]

I would say Stastny is undeniably superior to those two...his ppg is noticeably larger then either player.

 

 Really?  Peter averaged 1.26 pts per game, Bernie had 1.13 pts per game....this is noticeably larger?  In what universe?

 

 I will give you Sittler though, he was back a bit at 1.02 pts per game....guys who were much closer statistically were Sakic, Hawerchuck, Stevie Y.....Guy Lafleur....some very nice company to be sitting with. I've always said, Peter was one of the lesser appreciated super stars in the leauge, heck...most would not even call him a super star...but there he sits, easily in the top 10 of all time in pts per game.

[yave1964]

Top twenty and an unquestionable HOFer who played in the roaring eighties, his ststs were skewed by his era. I see him more in the Lafontaine, Nichols class than anywhere else. His lack of a deep postseason run certainly hurts him in many eyes, kind of like Dionne faces the same criticism.

[JagerMeister]

Really?  Peter averaged 1.26 pts per game, Bernie had 1.13 pts per game....this is noticeably larger?  In what universe?

 

 I will give you Sittler though, he was back a bit at 1.02 pts per game....guys who were much closer statistically were Sakic, Hawerchuck, Stevie Y.....Guy Lafleur....some very nice company to be sitting with. I've always said, Peter was one of the lesser appreciated super stars in the leauge, heck...most would not even call him a super star...but there he sits, easily in the top 10 of all time in pts per game.

Stastny has 109 more points in 23 less games played then Federko. A PPG of 1. 26 over 82 games is 103 points. For Federko its 92 points. And even then, Stastny peaked higher offensively. Stastny is evidently superior.

[ScottM]

Top twenty and an unquestionable HOFer who played in the roaring eighties, his ststs were skewed by his era. I see him more in the Lafontaine, Nichols class than anywhere else. His lack of a deep postseason run certainly hurts him in many eyes, kind of like Dionne faces the same criticism.

 

I see that criticism of him frequently, and honestly, I think it's a bit unfair. The season before Peter and Anton arrived in Quebec City, the Nordiques were 25-44-11. In their first season with the team, the record was 30-32-18, which is a gain of 17 points. They went from 248 goals scored to 314. Those aren't insignificant gains, and shows what a nice shot in the arm the brothers were for a struggling franchise. Now that I'm thinking about it, I might need to revisit some of that too, and see how it might affect some of my comparisons.

 

Btw, I do agree that his stats are somewhat skewed by his era, but every time I think about the fact that only Gretzky scored more points than Stastny during the 80's, it makes me shake my head about the fact that among some he seems to be almost an afterthought.

[jammer2]

Btw, I do agree that his stats are somewhat skewed by his era, but every time I think about the fact that only Gretzky scored more points than Stastny during the 80's, it makes me shake my head about the fact that among some he seems to be almost an afterthought.

 

 Honestly, anyone cutting up a guy in the top 10 of all time ppg scoring, with over a 1000 games played, that is sheer lunacy. That should command respect....and that is not even factoring in that he arrived in the NHL by means of an expansion team....there was only 3 real scorers on that team, well 4 before Sundin left....Peter, Anton and Goulet. The fact those 3 guys seen the very best checkers that an entire decade had to offer....all the time mind you, makes their accomplishments all the more staggering. There was no second line to "take the heat off" for many, many years.

[ScottM]

I'm digging this thread back up because after our discussions involving JR's modified Keltner Test, I decided to apply it to Stastny. Here's what I came up with:

 

1. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player in hockey while he played?

No

2. Was he ever commonly thought of as the best player at his position while he played?

No

3. Was he ever among the top 10 leaders in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)

Yes, in assists and points on multiple occasions. (1)

4. Did the player ever lead the league in any key stats? (G, A, Pts, W, SO, etc)

No, though if you exclude the “Gretzky factor," he would have led the league in assists and points once.

5. Did he ever have an impact on a deep playoff run?

Yes, he led the Nordiques in scoring in two conference finals runs. (2)

6. Was he a key member of a Stanley Cup winner?

No

7. Was he ever a team Captain?

Yes (3)

8. Was he ever team Captain of a Stanley Cup winner?

No

9. Did many regard him to be an excellent defensive player?

No
 

10. Did many regard his physical play/hitting to be an intimidating factor? (NOTE: We're not looking for pests here)

No
 

11. Did he play a lot/well after he passed his prime?

Yes, as late as age 35, he was a nearly point per game player and scored 24 goals for the Devils. (4)
 

12. Was he ever elected to the 1st or 2nd All-Star team?

No, though without Gretzky, he would have been second team twice.

13. Are many any other players with similar statistics in the HHOF?

Yes, virtually everyone with similar stats is in. (5)

14. Did he win a Hart, Lindsay, Norris or Vezina Trophy? (NOTE for goalies: prior to 1982, use 1st All-Star selections)

No

15. Did he win a Conn Smythe Trophy? (pre-1965: see resources)

No

16. Is there any evidence to suggest (due to circumstances beyond his control) that he was significantly better than is indicated by his statistics? (NOTE: We're looking for things like time missed due to global conflict, world politics, league wars, etc... NOT INJURY!)

Yes. He was unable to play in North America until age 24 because of the Iron Curtain. His numbers would almost certainly be much bigger otherwise. (6)

17. Did the player bring bring positive and intense focus on the game of hockey?

Yes, I'd say so because of the back story to his arrival (7)

18. Was the player innovative, inspire a new style of play, or cause the league to change any of its rules as a result of the way he played?

I’d probably say no, though his defection and those of his brothers helped to pave the way for others to do the same, and they no doubt helped to increase the number of European players in the NHL.

 

Stastny scores pretty well with a seven. If you exclude Gretzky from the calculations (which is arguably fair), he's a nine, and if you give him a point on the last one (which is probably pushing it a bit) he scores a 10.