JagerMeister Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The Sedins are truly unique specimens, and I dont believe we will witness anything similar again. They have both attained individual success and combine for a pearson, MVP and 2 art ross trophies, which is enough to be in consideration for induction, but do you think thats enough? And most of all, do you think they are deserving of induction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I don't know whether they will be inducted. Cam Nealy is in there, so that really blows any criteria out of the water. I don't think they should be in (just meaning I would not vote for them if anyone was silly enough to actually give me a vote). Very good players, but I don't think they're Hall worthy. But you know my bar is set fairly high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 I don't know whether they will be inducted. Cam Nealy is in there, so that really blows any criteria out of the water. I don't think they should be in (just meaning I would not vote for them if anyone was silly enough to actually give me a vote). Very good players, but I don't think they're Hall worthy. But you know my bar is set fairly high. I think the majority of hockey fans expectations for induction exceed that of the HHOF committee. It would be highly inconsistent of them to not induct the sedins since worse players in the forward position have been inducted. Yet at the same time, one could argue to not induct players simply because they are better than the borderline inductees. Thus, not repeating the same mistakes of the past. But I dont think alterations in thinking will happen anytime soon for the HHOF committee, with recent inductions such as forward disguised as defenseman Housley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I think the majority of hockey fans expectations for induction exceed that of the HHOF committee. It would be highly inconsistent of them to not induct the sedins since worse players in the forward position have been inducted. Yet at the same time, one could argue to not induct players simply because they are better than the borderline inductees. Thus, not repeating the same mistakes of the past. But I dont think alterations in thinking will happen anytime soon for the HHOF committee, with recent inductions such as forward disguised as defenseman Housley... I can't disagree with any of that. And I'm pretty sure you're right that fans expectations (this fan, anyway) exceed that of the HHOF committee. It's extremely difficult to tell the twins "no, your numbers aren't good enough" when Neely is sitting in the Hall. He's my favorite whipping boy when it comes to this subject (I liked him as a player but there is no way, IMO, he belongs there), but I suppose there are other examples. I didn't like Housley going in, either. I'll let you do the research (I'm too lazy), but I think the twins need to hang around a bit more and cross the 1000 pt. threshold. Because I *think* you'd be hard pressed to find too many with less than 1000 that retired in, say, the last 20 years. (Forsberg and Neely come to mind quickly. Anyone else? I mean just forwards.). I won't be angry if they get in. The Hall actually lost it's specialness for me quite awhile ago because I think they've watered it down just to let a few people in each year. And maybe they go in as a oddity--the twin thing. I'm just wondering if taken on merit individually--in absence of his twin--if they go in. Maybe. I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 @ruxpin Neely did bring a physical element to the game...something the Aliens are sorely lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 @ruxpin Neely did bring a physical element to the game...something the Aliens are sorely lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 I can't disagree with any of that. And I'm pretty sure you're right that fans expectations (this fan, anyway) exceed that of the HHOF committee. It's extremely difficult to tell the twins "no, your numbers aren't good enough" when Neely is sitting in the Hall. He's my favorite whipping boy when it comes to this subject (I liked him as a player but there is no way, IMO, he belongs there), but I suppose there are other examples. I didn't like Housley going in, either. I'll let you do the research (I'm too lazy), but I think the twins need to hang around a bit more and cross the 1000 pt. threshold. Because I *think* you'd be hard pressed to find too many with less than 1000 that retired in, say, the last 20 years. (Forsberg and Neely come to mind quickly. Anyone else? I mean just forwards.). I won't be angry if they get in. The Hall actually lost it's specialness for me quite awhile ago because I think they've watered it down just to let a few people in each year. And maybe they go in as a oddity--the twin thing. I'm just wondering if taken on merit individually--in absence of his twin--if they go in. Maybe. I don't know.Individually, I'm even more uncertain if they are inducted. They each had one phenomenal year in which they were among the top 3 players. But.... Daniel SedinGoals2010-11 NHL 41 (4)2015-16 NHL 10 (9) Assists2010-11 NHL 63 (3)2014-15 NHL 56 (3) Points2010-11 NHL 104 (1)2014-15 NHL 76 (8) Henrik SedinAssists2006-07 NHL 71 (4)2007-08 NHL 61 (4)2008-09 NHL 60 (8)2009-10 NHL 83 (1)2010-11 NHL 75 (1)2011-12 NHL 67 (1)2012-13 NHL 34 (8)2014-15 NHL 55 (5)Points2009-10 NHL 112 (1)2010-11 NHL 94 (4)2011-12 NHL 81 (7)2014-15 NHL 73 (10)2015-16 NHL 21 (10) Idk, you decide whether that's HHOF worthy... Well, I think Neely would have been considered for the HHOF if not for how his career concluded. He was a physical force who peaked quite high and was consistently among the top ten in goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 And most of all, do you think they are deserving of induction? i do. i know it isn't the general philosophy, but i think the HOF should be a walk down memory lane, where the members are those players that were most representative of the game and the league during their era. when a hockey fan in 2055 looks back at the 2005-2015 era, i think they should know about the sedin twins, i think they have been an important part of the hockey gestalt over that span. points and cups don't really describe an entire era, and shouldn't be the sole factors on who gets in, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It's extremely difficult to tell the twins "no, your numbers aren't good enough" when Neely is sitting in the Hall. He's my favorite whipping boy when it comes to this subject (I liked him as a player but there is no way, IMO, he belongs there), but I suppose there are other examples. I strongly disagree about Cam not being Hall worthy. As far as pts per game average goes, Henrik Sedin came in at 0.83 and brother Daniel was very close at 0.84. Cam Neely had a outstanding 0.97 pts per game. The only fault I could ever find in his game was something he had no control over, being injury prone. However, he did manage to play 726 games, which is more than enough to establish a players dominance, or lack thereof. Let's talk goals....more importantly, 50 goals in 50 games. For this particular stat to hold up officially, you must complete 50 goals before your *team* plays it's 51 game. The skinny lad Wayne Gretzky holds the all time record with 50 goals in stunning 39 games. I have a strong memory of this record for a few reasons....in his 38th game, Wayne scored 4 goals...THEN, in his very next game, his 39th, he scored 5 goals against the Flyers....the last being a empty netter with 4 seconds left...WOW...9 goals in his 38th and 39th games.....wicked. The next player on the official list is Mario Lemieux, who scored his 50th goal on the Penguins 44th game of the season. Only one other player EVER came close to this game and goal totals.....yep, Cam Neely with 50 goals in his 44th game....BUT, it was not his *teams* 44th game, it was Cam's 44th, because he suffered a knee injury earlier in that year. Scoring that many goals in that many games.... Gretzky...50 in 39 Lemieux 50 in 44 Neely 50 in 44 ....that right there is some heady company. Perhaps the most consistent goal scoring machine ever, Mike Bossy who had 9 straight 50 goal seasons could only manage 50 goals in 50 games....and it took 2 goals in the last 5 minutes to pull that one off. Who can forget the classic shot of the ensuing mayhem after Mike got that 50th goal...the scene is panned from the top of the crowd, and somebody throws a full bucket of popcorn into the Nasseau County Coliseum air....LOL, I'll never forget that bucket of popcorn flying...wicked stuff. The moral of the story, Cam was one of the best players to ever lace up skates, holding him out of the HOF for stuff that was beyond his control would be criminal. Rest assured, his talent level would have held up for the test of time, if he played 1,100 games, he would have real close to that number of points. In this particular case, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.....and the HOF voters obviously agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 i do. i know it isn't the general philosophy, but i think the HOF should be a walk down memory lane, where the members are those players that were most representative of the game and the league during their era. when a hockey fan in 2055 looks back at the 2005-2015 era, i think they should know about the sedin twins, i think they have been an important part of the hockey gestalt over that span. points and cups don't really describe an entire era, and shouldn't be the sole factors on who gets in, imo. I guess I'm okay with that on a certain level, but I also think that could be accomplished with some sort of "era" exhibit rather than a plaque or whatever individually for them. I've never been to the HHOF so I'm thinking in terms of Cooperstown. I know it's a romantic and probably, at this point, unrealistic notion, but in whatever sport I think the the Hall should be reserved for the best of the best. I know people in 2055 can look at stats themselves on their hologram Google glasses, but I don't like the idea that a Sedin twin has the same exact type of plaque and is honored on the same level as Gretzky or Bossy or Orr or whomever. I know you have to keep adding product or people don't make return trips and I know annual inductions are a marketing ploy, etc. That's fine. I understand the way the world works. But somehow there should be a hockey history exhibit and then a special Hall for legitimately special players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 the HOF voters obviously agreed. You had me until that line. That part doesn't terribly impress me, to be honest. I don't dislike Cam Neely. I love the way he played the game. For me, that's the way the game should be played. I'm not going to start a petition to have him removed and his plaque thrown in the dumpster behind Carls Jr. or anything. But I do think he's one of the weaker entries into the Hall and causes a lot of career-total issues when discussing borderline candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Gretzky...50 in 39 Lemieux 50 in 44 Neely 50 in 44 I have to. I can't help myself. Don't forget the 60 by Crater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 @ruxpin For myself, the Sedin twins watershed moment came during their trip to the finals. Seeing that little puke Marchand facewash Daniel while Henrik stood there in utter fear was shameful. Cowards, the both of them...when the tough get going, the Sedin's get pushed around. Some may think this is unfair, but they are little weasels who don't have the stones to stand up for themselves. That series turned around for Boston when the Sedin's refused to push back....they were the suppsed "leaders" of that squad and might as well have turtled at center ice. The Bruins *knew* they had them, from that moment on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have to. I can't help myself. Don't forget the 60 by Crater. jammer2, making stupid predictions since 1965. I'm jammer2 and I approve this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 @ruxpin For myself, the Sedin twins watershed moment came during their trip to the finals. Seeing that little puke Marchand facewash Daniel while Henrik stood there in utter fear was shameful. Cowards, the both of them...when the tough get going, the Sedin's get pushed around. Some may think this is unfair, but they are little weasels who don't have the stones to stand up for themselves. That series turned around for Boston when the Sedin's refused to push back....they were the suppsed "leaders" of that squad and might as well have turtled at center ice. The Bruins *knew* they had them, from that moment on. That is dead on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 jammer2, making stupid predictions since 1965. I'm jammer2 and I approve this message. Nah, you're right more than you're wrong (Chip Kelly not included). So I have to poke fun when you go out on a limb and it gets sawed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 @ruxpin HA...Chip had me fooled, he's the Bernie Madoff of the football world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 @ruxpin HA...Chip had me fooled, he's the Bernie Madoff of the football world. Really not a bad comparison when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 i do. i know it isn't the general philosophy, but i think the HOF should be a walk down memory lane, where the members are those players that were most representative of the game and the league during their era. when a hockey fan in 2055 looks back at the 2005-2015 era, i think they should know about the sedin twins, i think they have been an important part of the hockey gestalt over that span. points and cups don't really describe an entire era, and shouldn't be the sole factors on who gets in, imo. I agree with this view of the HOF. It is after all, the Hall of Fame... not the Hall of Statistics. On top of which, it's not the NHL Hall of Fame, it's the Hockey Hall of Fame. The Sedins are clearly two of the best players Sweden has produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPuk Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Don't you have to count their combined record as one? That would put them in! They should be inducted as a single person, though, right? Mwahahaha. Sorry, just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 @ruxpin For myself, the Sedin twins watershed moment came during their trip to the finals. Seeing that little puke Marchand facewash Daniel while Henrik stood there in utter fear was shameful. Cowards, the both of them...when the tough get going, the Sedin's get pushed around. Some may think this is unfair, but they are little weasels who don't have the stones to stand up for themselves. That series turned around for Boston when the Sedin's refused to push back....they were the suppsed "leaders" of that squad and might as well have turtled at center ice. The Bruins *knew* they had them, from that moment on.Well, not everyone can be the ideal human being like Lindstrom....One thing no one can refute, they are one of the most sportsmanlike and classiest players in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 i do. i know it isn't the general philosophy, but i think the HOF should be a walk down memory lane, where the members are those players that were most representative of the game and the league during their era. when a hockey fan in 2055 looks back at the 2005-2015 era, i think they should know about the sedin twins, i think they have been an important part of the hockey gestalt over that span. points and cups don't really describe an entire era, and shouldn't be the sole factors on who gets in, imo.They aren't. individual success is integral. I think its an absolute necessity for players to have been atleast among the best in the league if they are to be inducted. If points and cups were a sole factor, Andreychuk would be inducted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well, not everyone can be the ideal human being like Lindstrom....One thing no one can refute, they are one of the most sportsmanlike and classiest players in the league.You spelled "congenial and pussified" wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I agree with this view of the HOF. It is after all, the Hall of Fame... not the Hall of Statistics. On top of which, it's not the NHL Hall of Fame, it's the Hockey Hall of Fame. The Sedins are clearly two of the best players Sweden has produced.Well statistics in many situations, speak to a players dominance. Particularly forwards. Oh and the bolded, are you speaking of current players or all time. Because we have a problem if its the second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well statistics in many situations, speak to a players dominance. Particularly forwards.Oh and the bolded, are you speaking of current players or all time. Because we have a problem if its the second...Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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