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Peter Forsberg vs Sidney Crosby


JagerMeister

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Who was/is the superior player? Crosby right now(Basically his entire career at this moment, I don't believe he's past his prime yet) or Peter Forsberg during his prime.

 

 

 

Argument for Sidney Crosby

Here's a mind blowing stat, Crosby has exceeded the 100 point pace 8 times. I know it is PPG, which can fluctuate quite easily. But this is Crosby, one of the most consistent offensive players, and every time he did play the majority of games needed to exceed 100 points, he did. Only Gretzky and Lemieux have been on pace for 100 points more seasons then Crosby. Nevertheless, Crosby still prevails in the accolade department with 2 art ross trophies, 3 pearsons and 2 harts despite being arguably as injury prone as Forsberg was.

 

 

Argument for Peter Forsberg

Forsberg wasn't the dominant offensive force Crosby has been up until this moment. But one could debate that he was a far more impactful player, He was superior defensively and physically, so his complete game was significantly better than Crosby's. His point finishes might be slightly skewed playing with a past his prime Lemieux ( who still far exceeded a ppg ) and Jagr ( who is arguably superior to Crosby offensively ). But one thing is for certain, he was evidently the superior playoff performer imo. Sure, Crosby had that 30 points in the postseason. But Forsberg was far more consistent in the playoffs, and came close to exceeding 30 points himself while playing a much more complete game. The guy has 171 points in 151 games in the postseason, that speaks to his utter dominance and consistency in the playoffs that Crosby lacks.

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Crosby is more elite in terms of offensive skill but Forsberg had a more "complete" game. Forsberg was like Lindros or Ovechkin in that he would throw punishing bodychecks and could take it as well. Crosby always comes across as being "delicate" (like Gretzky) and in need of protection. 

 

So here are my rankings out of 5 stars:

 

Crosby

Goal scoring: ****

Playmaking: *****

Toughness: **

Accomplishments: *****

 

Forsberg

Goal scoring: ****

Playmaking: *****
Toughness: ****
Accomplishments: ****
 
 
:)
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@ I think Crosby prevails jn the goalscoring department. He has exceeded 30 goals on multiple occasions and has been on pace for 40 goals some seasons. Even a 50 goal outlier season. Now compare that to Forsberg who has never exceeded 30 goals. Other than that, I think thats a fair assessment on theur skills. Although playmaker is the most difficult to rank.

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@ I think Crosby prevails jn the goalscoring department. He has exceeded 30 goals on multiple occasions and has been on pace for 40 goals some seasons. Even a 50 goal outlier season. Now compare that to Forsberg who has never exceeded 30 goals. Other than that, I think thats a fair assessment on theur skills. Although playmaker is the most difficult to rank.

 

True. I just couldn't make half an asterisk.  :(

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  • 3 weeks later...

Due to my not being able to be on as much as normal lately, I missed this thread originally, but I found it during a search because I was just thinking about it. Their styles of play are different, but there are similarities in that they're MVP-caliber players who have both struggled with injuries. I'm a couple of weeks late, but I thought I'd put my two cents in.

 

Crosby is clearly the better offensive player, but Forsberg is just as clearly the better defensive player. If anything, I'd probably say that Forsberg's defensive advantage is slightly bigger than Crosby's offensive advantage because Forsberg was quite a capable offensive player. Also, as pointed out above, Forsberg was definitely the tougher player. Granted, neither takes/took a beating all that well, but Forsberg is clearly superior at physical play.

 

I agree with the above comment that Forsberg is the better playoff contributor. Crosby's PPG is ever so slightly higher, but the defensive contributions can't be overlooked, nor can the fact that Forsberg led the postseason in scoring twice (once when the Avs didn't even make the Finals) compared to once for Crosby.

 

All of that said, Forsberg was generally the number two center for the Avs since Sakic was the number one guy, whereas Crosby is the #1 guy for the Penguins. Now, of course, Malkin demands plenty of respect himself, meaning that like Forsberg, he can't be overlooked. Still, it's a slight advantage for Crosby.

 

Everything told, I'd give the slightest of advantages to Forsberg. It's close though. Very close. Still, I think everything weighed points to Forsberg.

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Crosby's defense is very underrated. He rarely gets the credit he deserves in that line.

I tend to agree, however , Forsberg was among the better guys in that area and definitely holds the edge there.

 

Not sure who I vote for here overall. It is definitely close.

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I tend to agree, however , Forsberg was among the better guys in that area and definitely holds the edge there.

 

Not sure who I vote for here overall. It is definitely close.

 

I guess what amazes me is that Crosby has been thought of as either #1 or #2 in the NHL since he started his career. Forsberg was always "one of a small group of" players that could be #1, but there was no clear #1 during that era. When you look at these two players though, Crosby han't had a "wow" type of season where he amazed me, not for a long time. He's "Joe Thornton/Adam Oates/Peter Forsberg good" in that he piles up assists, but doesn't finish nearly as often as he should. Forsberg was always criticized for not shooting the puck enough and not scoring enough, but nobody ever says the same about Sid. Crosby should be a 50 goal scorer, and I'd like to see him light the lamp more often than he does.

 

The best players of all time at that position could score 50+ goals AND get lots of assists, not just one or the other. Crosby still lacks that Lemieux/Gretzky/Yzerman/etc. level of "finish".  :o

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I guess what amazes me is that Crosby has been thought of as either #1 or #2 in the NHL since he started his career. Forsberg was always "one of a small group of" players that could be #1, but there was no clear #1 during that era. When you look at these two players though, Crosby han't had a "wow" type of season where he amazed me, not for a long time. He's "Joe Thornton/Adam Oates/Peter Forsberg good" in that he piles up assists, but doesn't finish nearly as often as he should. Forsberg was always criticized for not shooting the puck enough and not scoring enough, but nobody ever says the same about Sid. Crosby should be a 50 goal scorer, and I'd like to see him light the lamp more often than he does.

The best players of all time at that position could score 50+ goals AND get lots of assists, not just one or the other. Crosby still lacks that Lemieux/Gretzky/Yzerman/etc. level of "finish". :o

Crosby has hit the 50 goal mark, and done so when scoring is at a premium. The era of Gretzky/Lemieux scoring is long over. Too many defensive systems in place since those days.

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Crosby has hit the 50 goal mark, and done so when scoring is at a premium.

Yes, he did. Once. And he's never hit 40 otherwise. Like I said, offense is a definite win for Crosby, and he's a good goalscorer, but he's not elite in that category.

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Yes, he did. Once. And he's never hit 40 otherwise. Like I said, offense is a definite win for Crosby, and he's a good goalscorer, but he's not elite in that category.

If 50 is your mark, you've got Stamkos and Ovechkin then. That's it.

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Given his career trajectory, I'm wondering if history will look back on Crosby as being another Oates/Thornton/Forsberg type, in which case he'll be remembered as being a notch below established goal scorers like Yzerman/Sakic/Lemieux/etc. Nobody remembers playmakers compared to goal scorers. Assists simply aren't viewed as being as valuable as goals. 

 

Ovechkin is going to be the guy everyone remembers. He continues to be everything I thought Crosby was going to be when he first broke into the league. We saw glimpses of it back then, but not anymore. Unfortunately, (in my opinion) Crosby has never really delivered on the goal scoring prowess I thought he had. That one season early on in his career was great, and then the season cut short by the concussion had the makings of being electrifying.

 

He might slip out of THN's TOP 10 players next year. :o

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I dunno... Ovechkin has had bad seasons. Crosby's has started poorly but he's over a point per game again now that Sullivan returned him to forward rather than Johnston's third defenseman. I think the league's failure to protect star players has hurt him drastically with repeated injuries, but he's never going to be thought of as a Lemieux or Gretzky. That era is passed. These days 100 points is a glorious season let alone the numbers those guys could put up.

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If 50 is your mark, you've got Stamkos and Ovechkin then. That's it.

 

I didn't bring 50 into the conversation. I commented on it, but it was mentioned by two other people before that. It might be worth pointing out, however, that the two guys you mentioned have both scored 60.

 

But, let's take a closer look at goalscorers throughout Crosby's career. I think that's very fair since his second-best goals season was his rookie year and since he managed over 100 points that season.

 

60-goal scorers

Ovechkin (1)

Stamkos (1)

 

50-goal scorers

Ovechkin (6)

Heatley (2)

Kovalchuk (2)

Stamkos (2)

Perry (1)

Crosby (1)

Cheechoo (1)

Iginla (1)

Jagr (1)

Lecavalier (1)

Malkin (1)

 

So, actually, 11 players have 19 50+ goal seasons during Crosby's career, with four of them having two or more. Plus, the 60 goal mark has been hit twice during that time. Credit to him for that season he had, but he doesn't really pop out there.

 

did bring 40 into the conversation, and like I said, Crosby has only hit 40 in that one season. Let's look at the number of 40 goal scorers by year during Crosby's career:

 

2005-06: 11

2006-07: 10

2007-08: 10

2008-09: 8

2009-10: 7

2010-11: 5

2011-12: 4

2013-14: 3

2014-15: 3

 

To be fair, yes, 40 goal seasons are becoming noticeably rarer, but the first several years of Crosby's career, they weren't so uncommon, so once again, he doesn't really stand out.

 

But let's look at one last stat that's more dependent on the context of each season than arbitrary milestones: top-10 finishes. Crosby only has two of them. He won the goal-scoring title in his 51-goal season, but he only has two top-10 finishes, the other being a 7th place finish in 2013-14. Again, that's not the mark of an elite goalscorer. Again, like I said, he's a good goalscorer, but not elite. That's just not one of the greatest strengths of his game.

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@ScottM

And yet he's one of only two players to get two Art Ross trophies in that same time period. Even though four of his seasons weren't full seasons. I still think the Art Ross is more valued than the Richard. Forsberg has one.

 

I have absolutely no problem with that. Crosby is an outstanding offensive player, but his ability is more in the playmaking thread. I think we're discussing two outstanding offensive players here, but that is one area in which Crosby gets the nod.

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   Both players were true superstars who just happened to play a very unmanly diving style that took away from their greatness. Plus, Sid will go as far as punching a guy in the ball sack.....horrible star for the kids to look up to. Peter was also a well documented press hog, whose ego was so very large, he could not stand being out of the spotlight for more than a few days. I really don't know how he has survived being out of the limelight in retirement. I'll never forget the Flyers era that was dominated by "Peter fitted with new boot cast"....etc....what a load of BS>

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