J0e Th0rnton Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Polaris Puckers sends: Ryan Suter D Halifax Sharknado sends: Mika Zibanejad RW/C Had to agonize over this for a few days. Zibanejad is a great consistent producer on RW specifically because he wins a lot of faceoffs. His value is near to Tarasenko in this league and is among the top 10 producers among RW's. But with Pavelski and Carter both RW eligible too, he is the 3rd best RW on my team and while it was convenient to slot him at C occasionally if they all played 4 games a week, my defense is busted up something awful. Both Boychuk and Carlson are my best defensemen, and both are out on IR for who knows how long. Suter is also top 10 in the league among Defensemen, so it is fair since we fill a need on both teams. He will be my second best Dman once Carlson comes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Good trade for both. I will go ahead and approve it. (sighing quietly to myself....I sure could have used Zibby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 @J0e Th0rnton @hf101 @Polaris922 @yave1964 @TropicalFruitGirl26 Ok...so the following was proposed in the Bantam A League..... should I approve it. Early in the year I had to reverse a very 1 sided traded. I think Gallagher could fetch a high price than Jenner. Adding Palat to the mix makes this a very 1 sided trade IMO. The owner of Team Gordon really wants to upgrade LW and wanted to create spot on his team for an additional waiver pick-up. My gut says to nix the trade as I do not want to create unnecessary repercussions in the league. Thoughts? BAMBI ON ICE (12-2-1) RESEARCH PLAYER, TEAM POS PTS PRK %OWN +/- Boone Jenner, Cls RW, LW 152 14 29.6 -2.8 For TEAM GORDON (7-8) RESEARCH PLAYER, TEAM POS PTS PRK %OWN +/- Brendan Gallagher, Mon RW 115.9 32 100.0 +0 Ondrej Palat, TB LW 61.4 72 88.5 +13.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I am assuming that you are team Bambi on ice. If you offerred Jenner for Gallagher and Palat in our league and some fool took it, there might be a lynching. But you did not offer it, somebody offered it to you. Oof. My opinion is if someone is dumb enough to offer it there is no crime in accepting it. I have had trade offers offered to me out of the blue that I could not wait to hit Yes on out of fear that it would be withdrawn or the offeree would be committed. You are in the league to win it. And keep in mind I love Jenner, especially if your league has hits/shots as categories. Very solid player. But the only reason Gallagher is behind him in points is because of his injury and the numbers will even up over time. Now if you are the commissioner of the league you do need to be above reproach but you are also just one of twelve owners and deserve to take advantage of a generous trade offer the same as anyone else. Should you be expected to turn it down simply because the offeree is giving you the better end of the deal? I say take it and let the chips fall where they may. This was offered to you from my understanding, not something you pursued. Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 You know, when I look to see what kind of value a trade has to both sides, I tend to look at all facets of what a player brings. That was what I looked at right before the last trade fiasco I was involved in. Putting aside the selfish GM who was looking to blow up his team and imbalance the league, I thought the trade was fair......I was giving up tons of faceoffs with some decent goalscoring to get pure goal scoring, with hardly any faceoffs in return. Of course, looking at it from a total points value, I suppose the snipers i was getting back outweighed what the playmaking centermen were doing by a bit. Reason I bring that back up is because I am not sure really, what people use as a barometer to what a "fair trade" is in fantasy. I am willing to bet giving up one thing for another is perfectly acceptable in the real world NHL...but apparently, in FHL leagues, things are different. So that said, if you are looking at it from a pure points standpoint, Bambi on Ice is getting back far more than he is giving up. Not only gaining 177pts AND two top six players, but he is only giving up ONE player, on a losing team, at just 152. Looking at it that way, I'd say this trade is imbalanced. For what it's worth, I'd say if the two players Team Gordon is willing to give up were closer to the 150 value mark, then it'd be ok. But as it stands, and judging it the way the last trade that "went bad" stands, it looks imbalanced to me based on the type of players exchanged and their overall point values on the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 @yave1964 No..I am not Bambi on Ice (though I wish I had his record). I picked up ZzHockey former team after I banned him for trying to sabotage the league with a similar type deal but far worse. 7 minutes ago, yave1964 said: But the only reason Gallagher is behind him in points is because of his injury and the numbers will even up over time. I know..I'm trying to let the other GM aware of that, but he is frustrated because he does not have a decent LW. (Though he is currently in the playoff hunt at 7 seed). I appreciate your input. I just wanted to garner some feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: But as it stands, and judging it the way the last trade that "went bad" stands, it looks imbalanced to me based on the type of players exchanged and their overall point values on the season. Hence the reason I am a bit gun shy. When you compare Jenner to Gallagher, there really is no comparison as you and I both know Gallagher is >>>Jenner, but throwing Palat (who is having a down year) into the mix just makes this trade seem unbalanced. However, I am friends with the owner of Team Gordon and I am trying to protect him from an y potential backlash. So would you be a yay or nay on this trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 1 minute ago, pilldoc said: Hence the reason I am a bit gun shy. When you compare Jenner to Gallagher, there really is no comparison as you and I both know Gallagher is >>>Jenner, but throwing Palat (who is having a down year) into the mix just makes this trade seem unbalanced. However, I am friends with the owner of Team Gordon and I am trying to protect him from an y potential backlash. So would you be a yay or nay on this trade? Again, if trades are generally judged by overall point values, I'd say NAY, simply because Bambi is getting back far more than he is giving up, not only in points, but in player types. To be honest, Doc, I won't hold it against you or anyone else, no matter how you rule on this. I am still rather new to this whole FHL thing, so I am trying to figure out just what is and isn't a cause for a dust up between league GM's. Some things are obvious, like a GM sabotaging the league simply because he is losing or just doesn't want to play anymore, but shortsightedness is another thing entirely, and trickier to judge...which is where it gets cloudy for me. But, personally, I would say NAY to this, unless Gordon removes one of the players he is giving up and replaces him with one of lesser value overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 If Bambi was giving up 2 player for Gallagher..I would not have a problem with the trade.....I use this site as at least a starting point when analyzing a trade: https://www.fantasysp.com/trade/nhl/5766666/palat-gallagher-jenner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: @J0e Th0rnton @hf101 @Polaris922 @yave1964 @TropicalFruitGirl26 Ok...so the following was proposed in the Bantam A League..... should I approve it. Early in the year I had to reverse a very 1 sided traded. I think Gallagher could fetch a high price than Jenner. Adding Palat to the mix makes this a very 1 sided trade IMO. The owner of Team Gordon really wants to upgrade LW and wanted to create spot on his team for an additional waiver pick-up. My gut says to nix the trade as I do not want to create unnecessary repercussions in the league. Thoughts? BAMBI ON ICE (12-2-1) RESEARCH PLAYER, TEAM POS PTS PRK %OWN +/- Boone Jenner, Cls RW, LW 152 14 29.6 -2.8 For TEAM GORDON (7-8) RESEARCH PLAYER, TEAM POS PTS PRK %OWN +/- Brendan Gallagher, Mon RW 115.9 32 100.0 +0 Ondrej Palat, TB LW 61.4 72 88.5 +13.8 Jenner averages 3.3 points per game and can play all 3 positions. Gallagher averages 4.0 points per game and is strictly RW Palat averages 2.5 points per game and is strictly LW Overall, Gallagher for Jenner alone is a win for the Gallagher side based on early year production. Not sure why they are adding Palat to boot. Dubinski and Wennberg seem to have those top 2 C spots locked up, but Jenner is occasionally taking faceoffs. Just not a top 6 amount yet. If Jenner starts taking top 6 faceoffs(7-15 FOW's per game) then his value jumps due to his triple eligibility positions. Same as Foligno's did at one point. Jenner also hits more than both players combined and shoots more than either of them. It is not horrendous a trade right now except on potential side. If Gallagher and Palat start playing the way Palat did last year and Gallagher did to start the year, it has the potential to turn out one sided. Then again, if Jenner starts getting faceoff wins in abundance and top 6 points, then combined with his hits, he becomes the best player in the deal. Its a tricky situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I do get Yave's POV but, trades are reviewed either by the commissioner of the league or by league vote to help prevent lopsided trades. Personally I think Doc all ready knows the answer to this as he is questioning the deal here. Look at the numbers, Team Gordon is giving up 2 players that are 100% and 88.5% owned by other ESPN fhl leagues. Team Bambi on ice is giving up 1 player who is only owned in about 30% of all ESPN Leagues. Team Gordon is giving up two players that play on playoff contending teams for one that player that just traded away their #1 center and is playing for Austin Mathews. Absolutely no way would I approve of this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 1 hour ago, hf101 said: I do get Yave's POV but, trades are reviewed either by the commissioner of the league or by league vote to help prevent lopsided trades. Personally I think Doc all ready knows the answer to this as he is questioning the deal here. Look at the numbers, Team Gordon is giving up 2 players that are 100% and 88.5% owned by other ESPN fhl leagues. Team Bambi on ice is giving up 1 player who is only owned in about 30% of all ESPN Leagues. Team Gordon is giving up two players that play on playoff contending teams for one that player that just traded away their #1 center and is playing for Austin Mathews. Absolutely no way would I approve of this trade. @pilldoc @TropicalFruitGirl26 @hf101 @yave1964 Ownership in leagues is very subjective because each league uses different stats to determine player value. Gallagher is owned in 100% of leagues, and Charlie Coyle is owned in only 3.7% of leagues. But when you look at their average points per game based on our league, Gallagher averages 4.0 points per game, and Charlie Coyle averages 3.7 ppg, same as Hertl who averages 3.7 points per game with an 11% ownership. Simmonds, Ladd and Huberdeau are well below both in this league with only 3.0 points per game and 100% ownership. The difference is in the faceoffs. Until we see how the dust settles under Torts(I.E he makes up his mind on if Jenner plays C or W), we won't have a resolution on Jenner's true value. With Johansen gone, a hole has opened in the top 6 for a C, and currently he is running with Wennberg and Dubinsky, but tends to be flaky, even at points letting Foligno play C. Lately, Jenner HAS been getting more faceoffs and time as C. He could easily shake out to be the most valuable player in this trade based on our scoring system. Foligno was useless in our league until that brief stretch when Torts was letting him play C. On those weeks, I snagged him because he was averaging 5-6 points per game with those faceoff wins despite average scoring. Overall, Palat has been pretty useless in this league thus far. There are over 20 waiver options better than him in our All star league as far as PPG goes. The potential is there, but so far he is a cup of coffee pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said: @pilldoc @TropicalFruitGirl26 @hf101 @yave1964 Ownership in leagues is very subjective because each league uses different stats to determine player value. Gallagher is owned in 100% of leagues, and Charlie Coyle is owned in only 3.7% of leagues. But when you look at their average points per game based on our league, Gallagher averages 4.0 points per game, and Charlie Coyle averages 3.7 ppg, same as Hertl who averages 3.7 points per game with an 11% ownership. Simmonds, Ladd and Huberdeau are well below both in this league with only 3.0 points per game and 100% ownership. The difference is in the faceoffs. Until we see how the dust settles under Torts(I.E he makes up his mind on if Jenner plays C or W), we won't have a resolution on Jenner's true value. With Johansen gone, a hole has opened in the top 6 for a C, and currently he is running with Wennberg and Dubinsky, but tends to be flaky, even at points letting Foligno play C. Lately, Jenner HAS been getting more faceoffs and time as C. He could easily shake out to be the most valuable player in this trade based on our scoring system. Foligno was useless in our league until that brief stretch when Torts was letting him play C. On those weeks, I snagged him because he was averaging 5-6 points per game with those faceoff wins despite average scoring. Overall, Palat has been pretty useless in this league thus far. There are over 20 waiver options better than him in our All star league as far as PPG goes. The potential is there, but so far he is a cup of coffee pick up. I think Jenner is almost certain to be destined to play wing, living a bit less than an hour North of Columbus with a wife and daughter who are huge Jackey fans I watch more Jackets games than most and Jenner is a favorite of mine, speed, smart but he really takes faceoffs like you wish he wouldn't. Just awful in that area. But he is young, talented and has upper end middle six winger written all over him at the least. But in the dot he is really, really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 @J0e Th0rnton I haven't really followed where Palat has been playing all season, but he has been injured. He is currently playing on a line with Stamkos. Gallagher is playing on the top line and Jenner has been playing all over the place. Even if all 3 players are under performing this is a 2 for 1 deal. If Team Gordon thinks he can pick up a LW off the Waiver wire then why not just drop Palat for that LW? How does he know the guy he is interested in will be there when the trade goes through? This imo is a deal to move forward for the rest of the season. The #1 ranked team picks up 2 players on playoff caliber teams where as a team fighting to make the playoffs gets a player on a team where he will probably get a bunch of minus +/- points. And in this league that loss of a whole point for a -1 is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 By no means am I trying to dictate who a GM trades. However, when I see not 1 but 2 top rated players get packaged together for a single player who is IMO, is still "learning on how to be an NHL player", then I see red flags being raised. Both Gallagher and Palat have established themselves as established NHL'ers. Boone has not. Now depending on how he is used he could eventually turn out to be a top 6 guy, BUT he is not there yet. IF....and if it was 2 players coming back for Gallagher (with Palat not being included), we would not be having this conversation. FWIW...i did receive a text message from the GM of Team Gordon asking me to veto the trade. He stated he was going by his phone app earlier today and really did not research this trade. He now understands how lop sided this trade really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 21 minutes ago, pilldoc said: By no means am I trying to dictate who a GM trades. However, when I see not 1 but 2 top rated players get packaged together for a single player who is IMO, is still "learning on how to be an NHL player", then I see red flags being raised. Both Gallagher and Palat have established themselves as established NHL'ers. Boone has not. Now depending on how he is used he could eventually turn out to be a top 6 guy, BUT he is not there yet. IF....and if it was 2 players coming back for Gallagher (with Palat not being included), we would not be having this conversation. FWIW...i did receive a text message from the GM of Team Gordon asking me to veto the trade. He stated he was going by his phone app earlier today and really did not research this trade. He now understands how lop sided this trade really is. I think this solves that then....seems most think its lopsided anyways, now the Team Gordon GM sees that as well....and now you can save him the 'buyers remorse' of having to go through with it, since you yourself deem it rather one sided as well. LOL...not like Bambi needs any help winning...he is doing just fine on his own there! Going back to my situation with the 'trade that pissed off everyone', in hindsight now, despite the fact that I lost that week due to missing key players that were tied up in that mess, I see now that I ended up on the 'greener' side of things simply by having returned to me what I traded away and vice versa. The two players I was set to trade away have been gold for me. Both Gallagher and especially Palat, look to have strong finishes.....so Gordon too, may look back on this and think "Wow, dodged a bullet there...glad that trade looked as lopsided as it did to others AND the League Mgr". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 please see the PM I sent you guys thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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