Ghost as Rookie of the Year?

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

@OccamsRazor

 

I'd love that...except as it stands we're picking 12th. 

 

Well give it time have you seen today's lineup?? Mcdud from the AHL to the top Dpair....it's a given they just have to play the games!!!

[pilldoc]

Dated from 2/9/16

 

Philadelphia Flyers: Clayton Keller, C, United States National Team Developmental Program (USHL)

 

Philadelphia takes a center again with Alex Nylander off the board. Clayton Keller already has 11 goals, 21 assists, and 32 points in 16 USHL games. Clayton Keller is the best playmaker center in the United States Hockey League. That could land him a spot in the top 10 as Keller will go to Boston University for the fall following the 2016 NHL Entry Draft. -

 

See more at: http://www.draftutopia.com/2016nhlmockdraft.html#sthash.pBQR1ZJr.dpuf
Read more at http://www.draftutopia.com/2016nhlmockdraft.html#ftArO9UgfhvOPLPG.99

 

As i posted in another thread...I have see Clayton Keller's name more and more being associated with the Flyers.  However, there is still alot of hockey from now until the draft..ALOT can happen from now until then.

[Adamflyers]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well give it time have you seen today's lineup?? Mcdud from the AHL to the top Dpair....it's a given they just have to play the games!!!

Obviously this goes to show that Morin still needs time in the A to get some seasoning.  I was hoping we might get a chance to see what he could do at the NHL level, but given the number defensemen we have seen ruined by this team over the years from early call ups, I'm trusting Hexy's judgement.  I could see Morin and Ghost being paired in the future, so was kind of hoping we could see get a sneak preview, though it dont think it would be wise to pair a couple rookies together in such a high pressure game like tonight.  McDud is probably the smart call up for this game to be honest.  

[OccamsRazor]

Another assist for the kid........and Hak threw him a boat anchor (Mcturd) to see if he could play with and help break his streak....and he still managed...

 

 

Man get this kid a partner who can help him grow defensively and SHOW HIM right now......................that guy isn't on the roster....

[OccamsRazor]

Per Elias Bureau, #Flyers Shayne Gostisbehere is 1st NHL D-man to post a 12-game point streak since Mathieu Schneider (DET 11/27 –12/22/06).

 

 

Ekblad can't say that.................

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

Per Elias Bureau, #Flyers Shayne Gostisbehere is 1st NHL D-man to post a 12-game point streak since Mathieu Schneider (DET 11/27 –12/22/06).

 

 

Ekblad (nor Seth Jones) can't say that.................

 

there fixed it for ya!

[OccamsRazor]

Player Name	Team	GP	TOI	G	A	FirstA	Points	Shots	iFenwick	iCorsi	ShPct	G/60	A/60	FirstA/60	Points/60	Shots/60	iFenwick/60	iCorsi/60	IGP	IAP	IPP
1	GOSTISBEHERE, SHAYNE	Philadelphia	37	706:15	10	21	8	31	87	138	200	11.49	0.85	1.78	0.68	2.63	7.39	11.72	16.99	20.4	42.9	63.3
2	KARLSSON, ERIK	Ottawa	57	1652:51	11	52	28	63	169	263	406	6.51	0.40	1.89	1.02	2.29	6.13	9.55	14.74	11.2	53.1	64.3
3	KLINGBERG, JOHN	Dallas	56	1304:03	10	36	18	46	122	164	258	8.20	0.46	1.66	0.83	2.12	5.61	7.55	11.87	10.6	38.3	48.9
4	LETANG, KRIS	Pittsburgh	44	1152:49	9	31	14	40	134	166	247	6.72	0.47	1.61	0.73	2.08	6.97	8.64	12.86	15.8	54.4	70.2
5	BURNS, BRENT	San Jose	54	1423:13	18	30	18	48	227	316	476	7.93	0.76	1.26	0.76	2.02	9.57	13.32	20.07	24.7	41.1	65.8
6	SUBBAN, P.K.	Montreal	56	1460:51	5	39	19	44	149	211	316	3.36	0.21	1.60	0.78	1.81	6.12	8.67	12.98	5.3	41.5	46.8
7	JOSI, ROMAN	Nashville	56	1402:11	11	31	24	42	127	172	263	8.66	0.47	1.33	1.03	1.80	5.43	7.36	11.25	14.5	40.8	55.3
8	CARLSON, JOHN	Washington	42	1016:45	6	24	12	30	98	144	203	6.12	0.35	1.42	0.71	1.77	5.78	8.50	11.98	10.2	40.7	50.8
9	EKMAN-LARSSON, OLIVER	Arizona	55	1391:38	16	25	12	41	174	254	385	9.20	0.69	1.08	0.52	1.77	7.50	10.95	16.60	18.6	29.1	47.7
10	BARRIE, TYSON	Colorado	55	1273:46	8	28	13	36	116	160	240	6.90	0.38	1.32	0.61	1.70	5.46	7.54	11.31	11.6	40.6	52.2

 

HHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm not to shabby......

[pilldoc]

@OccamsRazor

 

If ok with you...I fixed some of the formatting...  Because the table was so large I split it up to make it easier to read.

 

 

Player Name	Team	GP	TOI	G	A	FirstA	Points	Shots	iFenwick	iCorsi	ShPct
GOSTISBEHERE, SHAYNE	Philadelphia	37	706:15	10	21	8	31	87	138	200	11.49
KARLSSON, ERIK	Ottawa	57	1652:51	11	52	28	63	169	263	406	6.51
KLINGBERG, JOHN	Dallas	56	1304:03	10	36	18	46	122	164	258	8.20
LETANG, KRIS	Pittsburgh	44	1152:49	9	31	14	40	134	166	247	6.72
BURNS, BRENT	San Jose	54	1423:13	18	30	18	48	227	316	476	7.93
SUBBAN, P.K.	Montreal	56	1460:51	5	39	19	44	149	211	316	3.36
JOSI, ROMAN	Nashville	56	1402:11	11	31	24	42	127	172	263	8.66
CARLSON, JOHN	Washington	42	1016:45	6	24	12	30	98	144	203	6.12
EKMAN-LARSSON, OLIVER	Arizona	55	1391:38	16	25	12	41	174	254	385	9.20
BARRIE, TYSON	Colorado	55	1273:46	8	28	13	36	116	160	240	6.90

[pilldoc]

here is part 2....

 

Player Name	Team	G/60	A/60	FirstA/60	Points/60	Shots/60	iFenwick/60	iCorsi/60	IGP	IAP	IPP
GOSTISBEHERE, SHAYNE	Philadelphia	0.85	1.78	0.68	2.63	7.39	11.72	16.99	20.4	42.9	63.3
KARLSSON, ERIK	Ottawa	0.40	1.89	1.02	2.29	6.13	9.55	14.74	11.2	53.1	64.3
KLINGBERG, JOHN	Dallas	0.46	1.66	0.83	2.12	5.61	7.55	11.87	10.6	38.3	48.9
LETANG, KRIS	Pittsburgh	0.47	1.61	0.73	2.08	6.97	8.64	12.86	15.8	54.4	70.2
BURNS, BRENT	San Jose	0.76	1.26	0.76	2.02	9.57	13.32	20.07	24.7	41.1	65.8
SUBBAN, P.K.	Montreal	0.21	1.60	0.78	1.81	6.12	8.67	12.98	5.3	41.5	46.8
JOSI, ROMAN	Nashville	0.47	1.33	1.03	1.80	5.43	7.36	11.25	14.5	40.8	55.3
CARLSON, JOHN	Washington	0.35	1.42	0.71	1.77	5.78	8.50	11.98	10.2	40.7	50.8
EKMAN-LARSSON, OLIVER	Arizona	0.69	1.08	0.52	1.77	7.50	10.95	16.60	18.6	29.1	47.7
BARRIE, TYSON	Colorado	0.38	1.32	0.61	1.70	5.46	7.54	11.31	11.6	40.6	52.2

[OccamsRazor]

@pilldoc

 

Some good number showing him ahead of some talented Dmen in the league....however as i just posted in the Del Zotto thread it won't last playing with Mcturd...

 

 

• Shayne Gostisbehere may have been able to extend his point streak with a late assist, but I suspect it will not last much longer if he remains paired with Andrew MacDonald. While the thought process behind the pair makes sense (the two played together in Lehigh Valley to start the season), MacDonald was dragging Gostisbehere down all game against the Rangers. Gostisbehere's neutral zone aggressiveness is out of place next to MacDonald and his passive play. The result was too much time spent in the defensive zone with Ghost and MacDonald on the ice. The best move may be to place Ghost with Brandon Manning (the safer, low-upside option) or with Medvedev (high-risk, high-reward). Regardless, I worry that we'll continue to see Gostisbehere's performance dip if the current pairing takes hold permanently.

[OccamsRazor]

Mcturd's defensive prowess on display "teaching Ghost".........

 

https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/yqn1.mp4

 

My thoughts on Mcturd........the new Brian...

 

 

[pilldoc]

LOL!!!! Classic....

[OccamsRazor]

 

 

[eleven24]

I'm sure most, if not all has seen hockeysfuture.com's analysis on Gostisbehere...

 

Quote

 

Provorov 8.0 B

Morin 7.5 B

Sanheim 7.5 B

Gostisbehere 7.5 C

Alt 7.0 C

Hagg 7.0 C

 

Player rating guide:

10.0 Generational Talent (Orr)

9.0 Elite Talent (Doughty, Keith, Subban)

8.0 No-2 Dman (Seabrook, Carlson, Josi)
7.0 No-3/4 Dman (Shattenkirk, Martinez, Petry)

 

B - Should reach potential, but could drop 1 rating. likely to reach potential, but may have a hole or two in his game that will keep him from reaching his full potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 90 percent for depth chart purposes, which indicates slightly less certainty about a player’s future performance.

 

C – May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings – has shown some flashes, but may ultimately not have what it takes to reach his potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 80 percent for depth chart purposes to show the uncertainty of a player reaching his potential.

 

 

I know it's early, really early, but a ceiling of Carlson / Shattenkirk for Gostisbehere?  Yes, these ratings were given before Ghost even played a pro game, but I think he could end up more on the lines of a Subban than a Shattenkirk.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

Well if you include Seabrook/Josi in that comparison (which he is just under) that is fine with me. These are just projections...obviously all our hindsight is much better than trying to predict where a very small but highly skilled defenceman will end up. The league certainly isn't littered with them.

[OccamsRazor]

I hope the kid can just keep it rolling, he has a lot to work on in his own zone and it will help once he gets stronger but i must say i love watching him play...

 

 

And nice knowing he will only cost 925K for next year too....

[eleven24]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I hope the kid can just keep it rolling, he has a lot to work on in his own zone and it will help once he gets stronger but i must say i love watching him play...

 

 

And nice knowing he will only cost 925K for next year too....

 

ahh, the player who is outperforming his contract.  Imagine that.  Guess that happens when you don't trade away your youth for older veteran players who are under-performing their contract.

 

I agree though, I find myself trying to catch the line changes in hopes that Ghost is coming back out.  Haven't had that feeling since #88

[eleven24]

Since I started this ROY post, just thought I'd put out some other numbers...

 

In games where Gostisbehere hasn't played the Flyers PP is 12.5%.  In games with Ghost in the lineup, 21.2%.  For comparison, the Caps lead the league at 23.7%.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, eleven24 said:

Since I started this ROY post, just thought I'd put out some other numbers...

 

In games where Gostisbehere hasn't played the Flyers PP is 12.5%.  In games with Ghost in the lineup, 21.2%.  For comparison, the Caps lead the league at 23.7%.

 

 

 

David Strehle ‏@DStrehleTFP  2m2 minutes ago

Per Elias Sports Bureau, @s_ghost14 is 1st NHL defenseman to post 13-game point streak since Brian Leetch recorded 14 (NYR 10/30-12/1/1996).

 

Nice. Keep it going.

 

David Strehle ‏@DStrehleTFP  1m1 minute ago

Gostisbehere's 13-game point streak is also most of any #Flyers player since Eric Lindros recorded 18 from 1/7-2/18/1999.

[eleven24]

If John Scott can captain an NHL All Star team then Shayne Gostisbehere can win ROY

[flyercanuck]

@eleven24

 

You know what? When this thread first started less than a month ago, I thought, ya, sure the guy deserves some props for what he's done but this is just homer Flyer fans grasping at anything in an otherwise lameass season.

 

But he just keeps rolling along..and I'm starting to not only think he doesn't just deserve props, but actual consideration for the Calder. Whether he can keep up the pace is left to be seen, but I don't see why not. Either way, pretty impressive rookie year for  ?

[Podein25]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Whether he can keep up the pace is left to be seen, but I don't see why not.

 

I do. I think teams will just have better scouting on him, he will be contained better, he won't be allowed the room to get off that big shot (which, by the way, I had no idea, is a bomb) etc etc. He is impressive though, from what I've seen

[eleven24]

13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

@eleven24

 

You know what? When this thread first started less than a month ago, I thought, ya, sure the guy deserves some props for what he's done but this is just homer Flyer fans grasping at anything in an otherwise lameass season.

 

Strictly from a hockey perspective, and removing my orange & black colored glasses, Gostisbehere has that "it" factor.  He is confident in himself without being cocky.  The way he reads the play and instantly reacts with no hesitation.  Confident in his read.  Doesn't second guess.  Defensively, like the 3rd goal the Devils scored last night, you can see where his lack of size/bulk sometimes costs him.  But the decision making and instinct is still often always right.  That's rare to see in any player, let alone a rookie just a few months into his NHL career.

 

The surprise is, nobody really saw this coming.  Sure, people thought Ghost was a good player.  But he was behind a handful of blueline prospects in terms of potential.  Yes, this is a lameass season with not much to be happy about.  But Ghost... damn.  All I keep thinking is that I hope he is STILL behind the handful of prospects who were ahead of him in regards to potential.  

 

If that's the case, then a Cup will certainly be headed down Broad St within a few years.

[JR Ewing]

I think he's a marvelous prospect... If I could provide some more perspective on some things going forward.

 

-He's riding an abnormally high Shooting Percentage of 12%, and that just can't be maintained. Elite shooting NHL defensemen are in the 7%-8% range. Paul Coffey shot 12% in the 80s. Nobody is doing that now for very long.

-There is a strong trend for GF% to be closely tied to CF%, and can be a good indication of players for whom everything is going in as well as if they're snake bitten. You can have a year where it's a fair bit higher or lower, but there is a tendency for GF% to eventually return as the at bats pile up. As of today, Gostisbehere's GF% is 57% compared to a CF% of 50%. It's difficult to maintain producing a lot more offense than your possession suggests. This will come closer as his career progresses.

 

This will be an entire separate thing...

 

Playmaking. We can compare playmaking in a simple way: you take the number of goals scored while a player is on the ice and then subtract the goals that he himself scored. This leaves the total number of goals he could possibly have assisted on: Assist Percentage. It levels the playing field from playing in higher or lower scoring leagues and playing on higher or lower scoring teams. For example, here are the top 4 defenseman in total number of assists, ordered by their Assist Percentage:

 

1. Paul Coffey, 42.1% (396-1125, 3095 Totals Goals Scored While on Ice)

2. Ray Bourque, 41.1% (410-1169, 3257 Totals Goals Scored While on Ice)

3. Al MacInnis, 39.4% (340-934, 2709 Totals Goals Scored While on Ice)

4. Larry Murphy, 37.4% (287-929, 2774 Totals Goals Scored While on Ice)

 

Gostisbehere is at 51.2%

 

I don't see how he COULD maintain the pace over the long term. Not without completely eclipsing the best point producing defensemen of all-time. I think he's a terrific prospect, am excited to see him develop, and am not in any way trying to **** on him. But this isn't the level of production we should expect from him going forward.

 

[canoli]

31 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

I think teams will just have better scouting on him, he will be contained better, he won't be allowed the room to get off that big shot

 

very true, his numbers are bound to tail off at some point...then again it's hard to contain a guy who's that quick in his decision-making and his release. That lateral move he uses to open a lane when he's high in the zone has got to be pretty tough to defend against, even when you know it's coming. If you don't bite on the initial shot fake and try to stay with him he can still burn you b/c his lateral movement is so quick - BAM! the shot is away before you can get your stick down.