Can we try this again?

[icehole]

Moderators are probably like "oh no"!

I want to start by apologizing for going off the other day.  I do come here to vent.  All I want to do is talk hockey, and this is the only outlet I have.  So when I bring up a valid topic and the first two replies I get are emojis and "you know nothing about hockey", even though I've been watching hockey for 30 years, that disturbs me.  If you disagree, just tell me why.  Then we can go back and forth in a civil manner.  Again, that's why I'm here...to have a conversation about hockey.

 

I haven't been the most positive person on here for the most part, because it's hard for me to see the positives.  The team has been very disappointing for the past 5 years or so.  This year, after hearing so many good things about the rookies and the fact that they were going to make the team, I'm quite disappointed in the first 4 games.  They can certainly turn it around, but we're not there yet.  I want to talk about where they are now.

 

I'd like to clear the air a little from the last locked thread.

@murraycraven @flyercanuck

You probably know more about hockey than I do.  I've been watching for 30 years though.  I watch almost every game, frequent the NHL network, and watch a lot of YouTube videos.  I've seen what is successful and I've seen what doesn't work.  I've never played organized ice hockey, but I can skate, and I have played in-line.  I know how to shoot and pass.  To say I know nothing about hockey because I disagree with your assessments isn't very accurate.  If you know something I don't because of your experience, explain why you think I'm wrong.  If I still disagree, we can have a nice little debate.

 

@DaGreatGazoo

I think "skating" was the wrong word to use.  Provorov can probably skate, but he doesn't seem to be able to handle the "pace" of the NHL yet.  I think we saw that again last night.  I believe that 19 year olds that can't handle the pace of the NHL should go back to juniors.

I was 99% sure he could go back to juniors if he only plays 9 NHL games.  I didn't appreciate you telling me I was completely wrong and that it isn't possible to go back to juniors.  If it was an honest mistake, no hard feelings...let's move on.

 

@Podein25

If I don't explain myself well enough, I apologize.  I'll try harder.

 

@murraycraven

You are right.  I am too extreme with couturier.  I made that comment after the first game, but I shouldn't have.  One game doesn't show me enough.  I still think this will be his best year because of better linemates, but I don't think he's a 25/60 guy.  We shall see.

 

@OccamsRazor

As I said to dagreatgazoo, skating was the wrong choice of words.  Provorov just isn't ready for the pace of the game yet.  It's not instinctive to him yet and he's out of position.  Last night, he had another moment that gave up a goal.  I'd rather have him grow before he is on the Flyers.  I also think he is smaller than I'd like for the Flyers.  Perry stuck out his butt last night and almost knocked Provorov over.  Without the acting from perry, I don't know how much Provorov would have moved him after the whistle.  Guys like perry need to be moved from in front of the net or things aren't going to be good.

 

@Poulin20

You're exactly right.  I need to vent and I wear my heart on my sleeve.  I have a 3 year old and don't leave the house much.  A flyers forum is the only place to talk hockey.  I am very stubborn sometimes because I think I'm right and I won't back down until I prove I'm right.  I think that rubs people the wrong way.

 

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, icehole said:

Moderators are probably like "oh no"!

I want to start by apologizing for going off the other day.  I do come here to vent.  All I want to do is talk hockey, and this is the only outlet I have.  So when I bring up a valid topic and the first two replies I get are emojis and "you know nothing about hockey", even though I've been watching hockey for 30 years, that disturbs me.  If you disagree, just tell me why.  Then we can go back and forth in a civil manner.  Again, that's why I'm here...to have a conversation about hockey.

 

I haven't been the most positive person on here for the most part, because it's hard for me to see the positives.  The team has been very disappointing for the past 5 years or so.  This year, after hearing so many good things about the rookies and the fact that they were going to make the team, I'm quite disappointed in the first 4 games.  They can certainly turn it around, but we're not there yet.  I want to talk about where they are now.

 

I'd like to clear the air a little from the last locked thread.

@murraycraven @flyercanuck

You probably know more about hockey than I do.  I've been watching for 30 years though.  I watch almost every game, frequent the NHL network, and watch a lot of YouTube videos.  I've seen what is successful and I've seen what doesn't work.  I've never played organized ice hockey, but I can skate, and I have played in-line.  I know how to shoot and pass.  To say I know nothing about hockey because I disagree with your assessments isn't very accurate.  If you know something I don't because of your experience, explain why you think I'm wrong.  If I still disagree, we can have a nice little debate.

 

@DaGreatGazoo

I think "skating" was the wrong word to use.  Provorov can probably skate, but he doesn't seem to be able to handle the "pace" of the NHL yet.  I think we saw that again last night.  I believe that 19 year olds that can't handle the pace of the NHL should go back to juniors.

I was 99% sure he could go back to juniors if he only plays 9 NHL games.  I didn't appreciate you telling me I was completely wrong and that it isn't possible to go back to juniors.  If it was an honest mistake, no hard feelings...let's move on.

 

@Podein25

If I don't explain myself well enough, I apologize.  I'll try harder.

 

@murraycraven

You are right.  I am too extreme with couturier.  I made that comment after the first game, but I shouldn't have.  One game doesn't show me enough.  I still think this will be his best year because of better linemates, but I don't think he's a 25/60 guy.  We shall see.

 

@OccamsRazor

As I said to dagreatgazoo, skating was the wrong choice of words.  Provorov just isn't ready for the pace of the game yet.  It's not instinctive to him yet and he's out of position.  Last night, he had another moment that gave up a goal.  I'd rather have him grow before he is on the Flyers.  I also think he is smaller than I'd like for the Flyers.  Perry stuck out his butt last night and almost knocked Provorov over.  Without the acting from perry, I don't know how much Provorov would have moved him after the whistle.  Guys like perry need to be moved from in front of the net or things aren't going to be good.

 

@Poulin20

You're exactly right.  I need to vent and I wear my heart on my sleeve.  I have a 3 year old and don't leave the house much.  A flyers forum is the only place to talk hockey.  I am very stubborn sometimes because I think I'm right and I won't back down until I prove I'm right.  I think that rubs people the wrong way.

 

 

 

Well it takes a man to apologize. So its  cool. Just sometimes you just got to relax and let this team grow and go through it's bumps and bruises.

 

It builds character. They will get better as a team but it will take time. No magice flip of the switch.

 

And some of the stuff here is all in good fun. But as some posted here is it seems like you're always complaining very very rarely complimentary on anyone. So that can rub some he wrong way.

 

And as far as Provorov goes kid is big enough for the NHL 6-1 205 is fine.

 

But now he is learning with live bullets there will be bumps along the way. He will grow and be better for it i know.

 

And as i mentioned on another thread his "vet" partner is very suspect himself and doesn't play very well in his own end himself so not sure how much he is going to be able to show Ivan when he needs work himself. It is what it is.

 

Maybe when Gudas comes back Ivan can play with him. He is better around the net and maybe that can let Ivan spread his wings some more with someone he doesn't have to do EVERYTHING for it seems. We'll see crossing my fingers.

 

And for the record i don't want to send him back to juniors he won't be challenged there like he is being challenged now. That challenge will bring forth new growth. In time.

[icehole]

@OccamsRazor

I know what you mean about streit. If the flyers were a bad Florida team or Arizona, I wouldnt mind keeping Provorov in there to get experience.  This is the Flyers though and they're expected (at least by me) to make progress from last year, which means at least a 2nd round in the playoffs.  From what I've seen in the first 4 games, I think he's a liability and hurts the flyers chances to make that progress.  If this continues throughout the season and the flyers miss the playoffs, it could go bad for him really quick.  I keep thinking about his face on the bench in the Hawks game, and that looks like broken confidence already.

 

I still want to give him 5 more games to see what happens. I guess I was expecting a debut a little more like Ghost, but maybe that has something to do with the age difference.

 

[off_the_post]

Must say I like the direction of this thread much better already!    Just need to throw a emoji in there!

 

I wish they would get Streit away from Provorov. 

 

I've said it before I can't help but think Hexy is second guessing the Junior decision.  I hope he stays and I am willing to put up with the gaffs so long as it is not detrimental to his long term development.  Frankly he is is about the smoothest defenseman I have seen in some time. 

 

As a whole on the team I can't stress how the MDZ injury has hurt this time both this and last year.  The Flyers got very fortunate Ghost broke out like he did or last year could have been down right nasty.  Gudas being out just multiplies the effect.

 

[pilldoc]

@icehole

 

A very well thought out post.  You make some excellent points.

32 minutes ago, icehole said:

Provorov just isn't ready for the pace of the game yet.  It's not instinctive to him yet and he's out of position.  Last night, he had another moment that gave up a goal.  I'd rather have him grow before he is on the Flyers.

 

very well may be true, but like the old adage goes...it takes D-men longer to develop before forwards.  With both Gudas and MDZ out of the line-up to start the season, maybe the Flyers really did not have a choice.  Either way, we have all seen he is going to be a very good player.  It will just take time. 

 

37 minutes ago, icehole said:

This year, after hearing so many good things about the rookies and the fact that they were going to make the team, I'm quite disappointed in the first 4 games.  They can certainly turn it around, but we're not there yet.

 

Keeping things in perspective they did play 3 Playoff teams to start the season.  (LA / Chi / Ana).  They beat a LA team who was without Quick.  The loss to the Yotes would be a downer.  One has to remember this team is still relatively the same from last year.  (Gordan /Weiss are role players that every team needs) .  Yes the Flyers add Konecny and Provorov, and they will be very good players for the Flyers but it will take time.  We just can't expect them to produce at the level of a Matthews / Laine / McDavid level just yet.  The one thing I have learned over the years is that generally speaking...Flyers fans are very impatient.  They want instant quick results and it just does not happen like that.  IMO this team will be like last year.  However, it is not unreasonable to see small improvements from last year.

 

50 minutes ago, icehole said:

You are right.  I am too extreme with couturier.  I made that comment after the first game, but I shouldn't have.  One game doesn't show me enough.  I still think this will be his best year because of better linemates, but I don't think he's a 25/60 guy.  We shall see.

 

Probably the most sincere thing you have posted about Coots. Look, many of us share in your frustration, however, we have to put it in perspective in the way he has been developed thus far.  Again, IMO, Coots is a perfect example of why young players need to develop further at their Junior team or in the AHL.  Am I happy the way he shut down Malkin during the  playoffs that year..hell yeah.  However, I truly believe it cost him in developing his offensive potential.  This year is absolutely critical for him.  He now will be in his 2nd year with Hakstol.  Lets see where he stands at the end of this year.

 

54 minutes ago, icehole said:

I need to vent and I wear my heart on my sleeve.  .  .........  I am very stubborn sometimes because I think I'm right and I won't back down until I prove I'm right.  I think that rubs people the wrong way.

 

Again..totally understand.  Just ask my wife ...I  can be just as as stubborn on certain topics.  I will argue to death a point, even though I might be wrong, just to try to prove my point.  Its part of our make up that we as humans always want to be right.  Sometimes it is very hard to keep our ego's in check..  I have learned over the years that by admitting that we are not always right and that trying to see the other person's POV goes along way in earning respect from others.

 

Thank you for a very well thought out post......

best

~Doc

 

GO FLYERS!

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

And as far as Provorov goes kid is big enough for the NHL 6-1 205 is fine

 

 @icehole 

 

First of all, really nice opening post.  Way to be the adult in the room!

 

I agree with OR's statement, but to your point, while he has decent size, as a 19 year old he still has some growing into his body to do.   

 

You and I are similar in our hockey "expertise."  I've watched since a child and got to go to two Flyers' Cup parades (I was only 6 and 7, really.  My running joke is that I'd like to go to one where I can drink but before I'm so old that alcohol affects my senility...too late).    I did play, but not in any competitive way since high school and that is now 37 years ago!.   So I have no more chops than you and arguably less.   So I rely a lot on folks here like @flyercanuck and @jammer2 and some others, specifically when it comes to juniors players, prospects, etc.   Like you, I develop some of my own opinions based on what I'm watching vs what I've seen over the years from other players, etc.   I think the 30 years you describe--and the time for me--does get you to have a decent opinion.  Sometimes, though (and everyone here will second this) my opinion is out of its tree and I learn a lot from others on here.   But the "I've played, have you?" only goes so far.  To me, that's more relevant in discussions of how locker rooms work, sometimes chemistry and "system" discussions.   But sometimes, such people have a more surgical eye when it comes to what someone's doing with their feet, decision-making, small stuff we might not notice like how someone deftly positions themselves against the defensive end boards and is able to avoid or absorb a hit while still managing to clear a puck safely, etc.

 

To Provorov, specifically, I saw him do amazing things in camp and pre-season.  Amazing for 19 year old.  I think we have to remember that we are in the very first week of 19 year old's NHL career.   I agree that the pace and size at the NHL level is causing him some issues.   But there has to be an expected adjustment period, and I'm willing to bet that's more than a week.  I mean, even the size of the crowd is completely new.   Personally--and this is from a guy who just watches--I don't like him with Streit.  I suppose this is due to suspensions and injury--and even just the roster we have anyway--but he's actually the last guy I'd put Provorov with.   I realize Streit is the veteran so it makes sense on the one hand to put the kid with the vet, but Streit is no defensive specialist.   I'd like to see him with more of a stay-home guy.   There have been instances--and you've correctly, I think, pointed this out--where Provorov has challenged or pinched where he should probably have backed up.  Streit--and forwards who should have, for that matter--have failed on several instances to cover for the pinching or challenging defenseman.   That's not just to blame someone else for a rookie's mistake--he has to own it and I think he will--but they're doing a horrible job of protecting the rookie in his first four NHL games.

 

The other thing I've seen is that he's on occasion attempted to make the "snazzy" play instead of the safe play.   I think it was the Chicago game where he was the last back and had a Hawk on him and instead of just slinging it out of the zone, he attempted to pivot to skate with it--something he's capable of, I've seen it--and blew a tire.  I think your idea about adjusting to the pace/size is on point here.  I think the Hawk was on top of him sooner than he expected.  He may still make the play if he doesn't blow a tire, but it probably wasn't the right decision to begin with.   

 

In my opinion, that will come with time and experience.   I personally wouldn't send him back down but appreciate the urge.  I don't think he learns anything new in junior.  He dominated there.   And juniors will not help him with what he's currently doing:  adjusting to the speed and size of the Bigs.  That's only going to come with staying here and adjusting.  

 

And it might be better if they put him with a different defenseman.   I'd even argue for Schultz, of all people, over Streit, but that may cut down on minutes for him.  I'm not sure that's not a horrible idea, either, while he's in the adjustment period.

 

Anyway, sorry for the monograph.   Nice post.

[icehole]

1 hour ago, off_the_post said:

Must say I like the direction of this thread much better already!    Just need to throw a emoji in there!

 

I wish they would get Streit away from Provorov. 

 

I've said it before I can't help but think Hexy is second guessing the Junior decision.  I hope he stays and I am willing to put up with the gaffs so long as it is not detrimental to his long term development.  Frankly he is is about the smoothest defenseman I have seen in some time. 

 

As a whole on the team I can't stress how the MDZ injury has hurt this time both this and last year.  The Flyers got very fortunate Ghost broke out like he did or last year could have been down right nasty.  Gudas being out just multiplies the effect.

 

And when MDZ and Gudas get back and provorov is past 9 games played, what do you do with him?

[Podein25]

@icehole

 

2 hours ago, icehole said:

 I know how to shoot and pass.

 

You're qualified to play D for the Flyers! 

 

Hey man, my apologies. Clean slate. 

[AJgoal]

I think I'd put him with MDZ and Ghost with Gudas, when all are healthy. But yeah, put him with Gudas when he comes off suspension.

 

There were still a couple times yesterday when I was thinking he needed to simplify his game, but he looked better, IMO. At one point, He saw a dman and forward coming back to cover up the two breaking forwards and stepped up at the line to cut off the puck carrier. It was a good read and it killed the play. Even on the goal, he couldn't do much. He could have stopped giving ground to try to force Getzlaf to go around or through him (possibly drawing an interference penalty), but that has risks of its own.

 

At this point, all I want to see out of the kid is him generally making smart plays. If he does that, he'll be fine once he catches up to the speed. If he keeps trying to do too much and not learning from his mistakes, that's what would make me worry. What I've seen so far doesn't seem to point in that direction.

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

If the flyers were a bad Florida team or Arizona,

There aren't any bad teams in Florida anymore.

perhaps Toronto or Vancouver would be more accurate. 

[mojo1917]

43 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

In my opinion, that will come with time and experience.   I personally wouldn't send him back down but appreciate the urge.  I don't think he learns anything new in junior.  He dominated there.   And juniors will not help him with what he's currently doing:  adjusting to the speed and size of the Bigs.  That's only going to come with staying here and adjusting.  

 

And it might be better if they put him with a different defenseman.   I'd even argue for Schultz, of all people, over Streit, but that may cut down on minutes for him.  I'm not sure that's not a horrible idea, either, while he's in the adjustment period.

 

this, good stuff here.

[DaGreatGazoo]

2 hours ago, icehole said:

Moderators are probably like "oh no"!

I want to start by apologizing for going off the other day.  I do come here to vent.  All I want to do is talk hockey, and this is the only outlet I have.  So when I bring up a valid topic and the first two replies I get are emojis and "you know nothing about hockey", even though I've been watching hockey for 30 years, that disturbs me.  If you disagree, just tell me why.  Then we can go back and forth in a civil manner.  Again, that's why I'm here...to have a conversation about hockey.

 

I haven't been the most positive person on here for the most part, because it's hard for me to see the positives.  The team has been very disappointing for the past 5 years or so.  This year, after hearing so many good things about the rookies and the fact that they were going to make the team, I'm quite disappointed in the first 4 games.  They can certainly turn it around, but we're not there yet.  I want to talk about where they are now.

 

I'd like to clear the air a little from the last locked thread.

@murraycraven @flyercanuck

You probably know more about hockey than I do.  I've been watching for 30 years though.  I watch almost every game, frequent the NHL network, and watch a lot of YouTube videos.  I've seen what is successful and I've seen what doesn't work.  I've never played organized ice hockey, but I can skate, and I have played in-line.  I know how to shoot and pass.  To say I know nothing about hockey because I disagree with your assessments isn't very accurate.  If you know something I don't because of your experience, explain why you think I'm wrong.  If I still disagree, we can have a nice little debate.

 

@DaGreatGazoo

I think "skating" was the wrong word to use.  Provorov can probably skate, but he doesn't seem to be able to handle the "pace" of the NHL yet.  I think we saw that again last night.  I believe that 19 year olds that can't handle the pace of the NHL should go back to juniors.

I was 99% sure he could go back to juniors if he only plays 9 NHL games.  I didn't appreciate you telling me I was completely wrong and that it isn't possible to go back to juniors.  If it was an honest mistake, no hard feelings...let's move on.

 

@Podein25

If I don't explain myself well enough, I apologize.  I'll try harder.

 

@murraycraven

You are right.  I am too extreme with couturier.  I made that comment after the first game, but I shouldn't have.  One game doesn't show me enough.  I still think this will be his best year because of better linemates, but I don't think he's a 25/60 guy.  We shall see.

 

@OccamsRazor

As I said to dagreatgazoo, skating was the wrong choice of words.  Provorov just isn't ready for the pace of the game yet.  It's not instinctive to him yet and he's out of position.  Last night, he had another moment that gave up a goal.  I'd rather have him grow before he is on the Flyers.  I also think he is smaller than I'd like for the Flyers.  Perry stuck out his butt last night and almost knocked Provorov over.  Without the acting from perry, I don't know how much Provorov would have moved him after the whistle.  Guys like perry need to be moved from in front of the net or things aren't going to be good.

 

@Poulin20

You're exactly right.  I need to vent and I wear my heart on my sleeve.  I have a 3 year old and don't leave the house much.  A flyers forum is the only place to talk hockey.  I am very stubborn sometimes because I think I'm right and I won't back down until I prove I'm right.  I think that rubs people the wrong way.

 

Hey Ice-Man,

Thanks for the cool post.  Like you, I probably came across way too harsh as well.  My apologies for the flaming, won't happen again.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said, as well as what others have chimes in with and don't want to rehash.  The biggest thing I see is that this is a roster still in transition.  This is not the Kings of a few years ago where the roster was set and they basically let it ride.  Parts need added/deleted.  Young kids are gonna make major mistakes and look bad.  It's not a rebuild, but it sort of is at the same time.  

 

I'm as impatient as anyone...but this is gonna take time.  As much as we all hate it.

[icehole]

47 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

 @icehole 

 

First of all, really nice opening post.  Way to be the adult in the room!

 

I agree with OR's statement, but to your point, while he has decent size, as a 19 year old he still has some growing into his body to do.   

 

You and I are similar in our hockey "expertise."  I've watched since a child and got to go to two Flyers' Cup parades (I was only 6 and 7, really.  My running joke is that I'd like to go to one where I can drink but before I'm so old that alcohol affects my senility...too late).    I did play, but not in any competitive way since high school and that is now 37 years ago!.   So I have no more chops than you and arguably less.   So I rely a lot on folks here like @flyercanuck and @jammer2 and some others, specifically when it comes to juniors players, prospects, etc.   Like you, I develop some of my own opinions based on what I'm watching vs what I've seen over the years from other players, etc.   I think the 30 years you describe--and the time for me--does get you to have a decent opinion.  Sometimes, though (and everyone here will second this) my opinion is out of its tree and I learn a lot from others on here.   But the "I've played, have you?" only goes so far.  To me, that's more relevant in discussions of how locker rooms work, sometimes chemistry and "system" discussions.   But sometimes, such people have a more surgical eye when it comes to what someone's doing with their feet, decision-making, small stuff we might not notice like how someone deftly positions themselves against the defensive end boards and is able to avoid or absorb a hit while still managing to clear a puck safely, etc.

 

To Provorov, specifically, I saw him do amazing things in camp and pre-season.  Amazing for 19 year old.  I think we have to remember that we are in the very first week of 19 year old's NHL career.   I agree that the pace and size at the NHL level is causing him some issues.   But there has to be an expected adjustment period, and I'm willing to bet that's more than a week.  I mean, even the size of the crowd is completely new.   Personally--and this is from a guy who just watches--I don't like him with Streit.  I suppose this is due to suspensions and injury--and even just the roster we have anyway--but he's actually the last guy I'd put Provorov with.   I realize Streit is the veteran so it makes sense on the one hand to put the kid with the vet, but Streit is no defensive specialist.   I'd like to see him with more of a stay-home guy.   There have been instances--and you've correctly, I think, pointed this out--where Provorov has challenged or pinched where he should probably have backed up.  Streit--and forwards who should have, for that matter--have failed on several instances to cover for the pinching or challenging defenseman.   That's not just to blame someone else for a rookie's mistake--he has to own it and I think he will--but they're doing a horrible job of protecting the rookie in his first four NHL games.

 

The other thing I've seen is that he's on occasion attempted to make the "snazzy" play instead of the safe play.   I think it was the Chicago game where he was the last back and had a Hawk on him and instead of just slinging it out of the zone, he attempted to pivot to skate with it--something he's capable of, I've seen it--and blew a tire.  I think your idea about adjusting to the pace/size is on point here.  I think the Hawk was on top of him sooner than he expected.  He may still make the play if he doesn't blow a tire, but it probably wasn't the right decision to begin with.   

 

In my opinion, that will come with time and experience.   I personally wouldn't send him back down but appreciate the urge.  I don't think he learns anything new in junior.  He dominated there.   And juniors will not help him with what he's currently doing:  adjusting to the speed and size of the Bigs.  That's only going to come with staying here and adjusting.  

 

And it might be better if they put him with a different defenseman.   I'd even argue for Schultz, of all people, over Streit, but that may cut down on minutes for him.  I'm not sure that's not a horrible idea, either, while he's in the adjustment period.

 

Anyway, sorry for the monograph.   Nice post.

I completely understand the urge to keep him on the team.  We've been waiting for this for a year now.  I want something to get excited for.  I'm just worried that it will hurt the team, and more importantly, hurt him.  If he came out like ghost did, you have to keep him and figure out what to do with other dmen.  When MDZ and Gudas come back, I think provorov is the odd man out.  Not saying that MacDonald or streit or Schultz are better but they are NHL conditioned.

 

It's a fair point to say that he has probably "outgrown" juniors.  I'm sure things would be a little too easy.  I'd like him to grow physically and maturity wise before the NHL though.  What I don't know is his AHL eligibility.  Is it right that he has to be 20 to be eligible for AHL?

[mojo1917]

I think Meltzer mentioned the " speed of the game" angle this week. Specifically he was saying that in the preseason a lot of veteran players are working themselves into shape and trying to avoid injury so they're going maybe 85 % of regular season tempo / intensity.  

I agree with all the sentiments regarding #9 and his development.  I don' t see where another year in the WHL will help him adjust to the pace of the NHL.  He was the best player in his league as a 18/19 year old he'd be the best player again as a 19/20 year old. I don't see where logging 25 a night playing against 17-19 year old players readies him for playing against men.

I also agree that Striet is not the ideal playing partner for him.

MDZ and Gudas missing isn't helping. Those guys would be logging some of the tougher minutes for sure.

IP's  been thrown into the deep end of the pool and is at least doggy paddling.

I don't think a rough patch of adjustment is going to derail him long term,  He has the ability to be a very good player, i know we can see that..... once he figures out what flies and what doesn't I don't think he'll stick out unless it is positively . 

 

[icehole]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

There aren't any bad teams in Florida anymore.

perhaps Toronto or Vancouver would be more accurate. 

I wasn't implying that Florida teams or Arizona is bad (saw that on saturday).  I was saying if they were bad, in a bad market like Florida or Arizona, there wouldn't be any pressure or expectations to do anything.  With a flyers playoff team, expectations are high.

[murraycraven]

2 hours ago, icehole said:

Moderators are probably like "oh no"!

I want to start by apologizing for going off the other day.  I do come here to vent.  All I want to do is talk hockey, and this is the only outlet I have.  So when I bring up a valid topic and the first two replies I get are emojis and "you know nothing about hockey", even though I've been watching hockey for 30 years, that disturbs me.  If you disagree, just tell me why.  Then we can go back and forth in a civil manner.  Again, that's why I'm here...to have a conversation about hockey.

 

I haven't been the most positive person on here for the most part, because it's hard for me to see the positives.  The team has been very disappointing for the past 5 years or so.  This year, after hearing so many good things about the rookies and the fact that they were going to make the team, I'm quite disappointed in the first 4 games.  They can certainly turn it around, but we're not there yet.  I want to talk about where they are now.

 

I'd like to clear the air a little from the last locked thread.

@murraycraven @flyercanuck

You probably know more about hockey than I do.  I've been watching for 30 years though.  I watch almost every game, frequent the NHL network, and watch a lot of YouTube videos.  I've seen what is successful and I've seen what doesn't work.  I've never played organized ice hockey, but I can skate, and I have played in-line.  I know how to shoot and pass.  To say I know nothing about hockey because I disagree with your assessments isn't very accurate.  If you know something I don't because of your experience, explain why you think I'm wrong.  If I still disagree, we can have a nice little debate.

 

@DaGreatGazoo

I think "skating" was the wrong word to use.  Provorov can probably skate, but he doesn't seem to be able to handle the "pace" of the NHL yet.  I think we saw that again last night.  I believe that 19 year olds that can't handle the pace of the NHL should go back to juniors.

I was 99% sure he could go back to juniors if he only plays 9 NHL games.  I didn't appreciate you telling me I was completely wrong and that it isn't possible to go back to juniors.  If it was an honest mistake, no hard feelings...let's move on.

 

@Podein25

If I don't explain myself well enough, I apologize.  I'll try harder.

 

@murraycraven

You are right.  I am too extreme with couturier.  I made that comment after the first game, but I shouldn't have.  One game doesn't show me enough.  I still think this will be his best year because of better linemates, but I don't think he's a 25/60 guy.  We shall see.

 

@OccamsRazor

As I said to dagreatgazoo, skating was the wrong choice of words.  Provorov just isn't ready for the pace of the game yet.  It's not instinctive to him yet and he's out of position.  Last night, he had another moment that gave up a goal.  I'd rather have him grow before he is on the Flyers.  I also think he is smaller than I'd like for the Flyers.  Perry stuck out his butt last night and almost knocked Provorov over.  Without the acting from perry, I don't know how much Provorov would have moved him after the whistle.  Guys like perry need to be moved from in front of the net or things aren't going to be good.

 

@Poulin20

You're exactly right.  I need to vent and I wear my heart on my sleeve.  I have a 3 year old and don't leave the house much.  A flyers forum is the only place to talk hockey.  I am very stubborn sometimes because I think I'm right and I won't back down until I prove I'm right.  I think that rubs people the wrong way.

 

 

 

@icehole  Thanks for the post...  I honestly have no issue whatsoever and if you read the old posts I even said I thought you were very funny.   I think it is the tone of which you write that puts me off sometimes but on a message board it is hard to actually understand the tone.  I feel like some things go exactly like @Podein25 posted...

 

I think we are all a culpable with this one... not hard feeling whatsoever.

[murraycraven]

 

 

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, icehole said:

I wasn't implying that Florida teams or Arizona is bad (saw that on saturday).  I was saying if they were bad, in a bad market like Florida or Arizona, there wouldn't be any pressure or expectations to do anything.  With a flyers playoff team, expectations are high.

oh i understood what you were saying but i really just wanted to make a Toronto sux joke. 

[Podein25]

4 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

I even said I thought you were very funny.

 

Ok, that's going too far!

[murraycraven]

Just now, Podein25 said:

 

Ok, that's going too far!

 

 

LOL!!!

 

I actually do think he is funny!

[pilldoc]

7 minutes ago, icehole said:

What I don't know is his AHL eligibility.  Is it right that he has to be 20 to be eligible for AHL?

 

Yes part of the agreement between the NHL/AHL and Canadian Junior hockey is that a player must be 20 at "the start" of the season in order to be eligible for the AHL.  Provorov is 19 and will turn 20 in January.  Therefore it was Flyers or Juniors for him.  However, after 9 games he can go back to Juniors if so desired by Flyers.

 

The exception to this rule is if a player is 18 he can go to the AHL if he played in a league other than Canadian Junior League...so if a player played in say ....an elite Finnish league last year and was 18 at the start of the season, then yes that player would be eligible for the AHL.  Confusing I know......

[DaGreatGazoo]

12 minutes ago, icehole said:

I completely understand the urge to keep him on the team.  We've been waiting for this for a year now.  I want something to get excited for.  I'm just worried that it will hurt the team, and more importantly, hurt him.  If he came out like ghost did, you have to keep him and figure out what to do with other dmen.  When MDZ and Gudas come back, I think provorov is the odd man out.  Not saying that MacDonald or streit or Schultz are better but they are NHL conditioned.

 

It's a fair point to say that he has probably "outgrown" juniors.  I'm sure things would be a little too easy.  I'd like him to grow physically and maturity wise before the NHL though.  What I don't know is his AHL eligibility.  Is it right that he has to be 20 to be eligible for AHL?

Correct...he can not play in the AHL this year due to his age.  It's either the Flyers or back to Juniors.  

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Correct...he can not play in the AHL this year due to his age.  It's either the Flyers or back to Juniors.  

 

Ha! beat you by a minute in posting this info!

 

Besides ...great minds think alike!

 

[DaGreatGazoo]

Just now, pilldoc said:

 

Ha! beat you by a minute in posting this info!

 

D*AMN YOU!!!  LOL

[murraycraven]

@hf101 heart must be filled w/ pride and love reading this thread!!!