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icehole

Can we try this again?

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26 minutes ago, icehole said:

What I don't know is his AHL eligibility.  Is it right that he has to be 20 to be eligible for AHL?

 

Yeah, he has to stay or go to juniors.   AHL isn't an option until next year.  It's 20, but it must have to be 20 at the start of the season rather than some time during.

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35 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

IP's  been thrown into the deep end of the pool and is at least doggy paddling.

 

 

Might be the best description of what's going on that I've read.

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8 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

Thinking ahead (hopefully not way ahead) I'm looking forward to the virtual group hug if/when we FINALLY win the Stanley Cup.  At that point I think we need an in person board get together to celebrate.  I say either before or after we attend the parade. 

 

Would someone be willing to bring my ashes?

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4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Would someone be willing to bring my ashes?

 

We can arrange for that and toss them up like confetti at the parade!

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Just now, Poulin20 said:

 

We can arrange for that and toss them up like confetti at the parade!

 

Perfect!

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2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

@icehole  Thanks for the post...  I honestly have no issue whatsoever and if you read the old posts I even said I thought you were very funny.   I think it is the tone of which you write that puts me off sometimes but on a message board it is hard to actually understand the tone.  I feel like some things go exactly like @Podein25 posted...

 

I think we are all a culpable with this one... not hard feeling whatsoever.

I think this is the main culprit.  I was afraid my post would be taken the wrong way the other day so I added some disclaimers before I made my point.  I think it was still taken as me giving up on a 19 year old after 3 games.

I wasn't standing tall, puffing my chest, and saying "this kids a bum...wtf does he add to the team".  I was just simply saying that I don't know much about him, I was expecting a bigger version of ghost, and he was far from that.  So, what are his skills, and is he maybe too underdeveloped to be on the team?

 

In the next 5 games, I'd like to see them tinker with defensive pairings.  Someone mentioned Gudas, but is Gudas responsible enough to cover for him if he's out of position?  Gudas often takes himself out of position.  This may be a stretch but Schultz is probably the most "stay at home" defenseman on the team...maybe they work together. 

 

Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but besides ghost, I think manning has been the best defenseman so far.  He's really impressed me.

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7 minutes ago, icehole said:

So, what are his skills, and is he maybe too underdeveloped to be on the team?

 

I don't think either are the case, honestly.  He has all the skills and showed them in spades in pre-season.  With the regular season, the pace is increased a notch and he's adjusting.  And has been given a horrible defensive pairing.

 

As for skills, style, etc.  I've heard him compared to Timmo.  So far, I think that's apt.  (Rather than a Pronger or someone like that).  Give it time.  It'll be good.   The Chicago game was horrific.  And last night was only okay.   "Give it time" sounds cliche and empty, but that's really only the best advice at this point.  He'll make us all happy before this is over.

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9 minutes ago, icehole said:

Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but besides ghost, I think manning has been the best defenseman so far.  He's really impressed me.

 

I agree (from what I've seen, which isn't much). This is an interesting development. There was always something about him that I liked (poise?). It's weird with D-men. You just never know which ones can figure out the pro-game. Many great D prospects never do.

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10 minutes ago, icehole said:

I think manning has been the best defenseman so far.

 

I actually don't much like Manning, but I actually can't argue with that.   I think he's been the most consistent, in any case.  I think Provorov has had some much more impressive moments.  But he's clearly had some horrific moments.   

 

Is it me or was MacDonald pretty good in preseason but kind of "meh" once the season has started?   Not horrible.  He hasn't had the real stand out crap the bed moments that Provorov has.

 

And Ghost hasn't been outstanding yet.  Good so far, and I'm probably unjustly holding him to last year's standard, but I don't think he's been that yet.   Anecdotally, a lot of shots into legs.

 

But Manning has just churned along, made smart safe plays, and done his thing.

 

Right now, if I'm making the call, I still send MacDonald down despite a good camp.

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3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I agree (from what I've seen, which isn't much). This is an interesting development. There was always something about him that I liked (poise?). It's weird with D-men. You just never know which ones can figure out the pro-game. Many great D prospects never do.

 

Fair statements.   Yeah, he's played soundly and it seems like he's even skating better.  There's a smooth calmness to his game so far this year.   I really thought he was a tweener, but he's changing my mind there.

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I'm far from a junior expert, but I wasn't expecting Ghost. Ghost I'd compare with a player like Mike Green in his prime or Karlsson - a freewheeler on offense who may never be great in the defensive zone. My expectations for Provorov are more the Duncan Keith/Doughty/Lidstrom/Timonen all around type player - Someone who will provide above average offense with excellent defensive zone skills.

 

I think though, that the defensive side takes more time to develop than the offensive side, since it's more reactionary. Doughty, Hedman, Pietrangelo... all took time to develop their defense. So 4 games is too soon to judge how Provorov's going to look as a finished product. A full season might not be enough.

 

And no, I'm not saying either Ghost or Provorov will be as good as any of these, just using for examples of the type of game they play. I am also not saying they won't be that good. Too soon to tell. 

 

WRT Manning, he's stood out with his willingness to push the play up ice. He also hasn't been very noticeable on the defensive side, which is a good sign. I hope he can keep it up.

 

@ruxpin - I'd send MacDonald down, as well. I think that if things progress well for the defense, Both Streit and Schultz are ending up as 5-7 with Manning. That's pretty ideal, as you can trade away those guys if they're not filling top-4 roles, even if you're in the middle of a playoff run.

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Just now, ruxpin said:

I really thought he was a tweener, but he's changing my mind there.

 

I don't find the 'tweener label helpful in judging D-men. For me, it's a label that really speaks to a skilled forward that isn't good enough to be a top 6 or 9, but can't really become a "checker"

 

For D-men, I think the issue is mental: how quickly can you process the pro game? Do you know what I mean?

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39 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I don't find the 'tweener label helpful in judging D-men. For me, it's a label that really speaks to a skilled forward that isn't good enough to be a top 6 or 9, but can't really become a "checker"

 

For D-men, I think the issue is mental: how quickly can you process the pro game? Do you know what I mean?

 

Yeah, that's fair.  I was actually uncomfortable using "tweener," because I agree it's usually used for forwards.

 

I just didn't think he'd amount to much more than an emergency injury call-up.   I hadn't seen anything (in admittedly limited viewing both in Lehigh and Philly) that made me think he'd amount to much.   If he continues with how he's been playing in pre-season and early on here, I'm happy with him.  2nd or 3rd pairing, largely, but you need those.

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3 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Candidly, nothing you said or did compares to the behavior on that site

 

No, but quite honestly, the treatment of him was eerily close.

 

Maybe because of the Couturier stuff, but honestly, this year (with better wingers) should tell who was right or wrong on that score.  I think the jury has to be out on that, especially on the offensive side.

Edited by ruxpin
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Re: Provy - It occurred to me, watching last night, that we have a great coach for developing these youngsters. While Provy has struggled mightily these last few games, Hak keeps putting him out there in key situations. We are literally watching him learn the bigly ;) game. This is the necessary developmental process. As others have said.. he's not getting any better down in junior and he's not gonna just flip a switch and light up the NHL. 

 

So I guess any frustrations with him would have to be looked at as your own. Your expectations of him are unrealistic. This is a time worn tradition with Philly fandom so don't beat yourself up about it... but try to just sit back and accept it for what this is... another year of progress for a transitioning team. 

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1 hour ago, icehole said:

Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but besides ghost, I think manning has been the best defenseman so far.  He's really impressed me.

 

Absolutely agree...   Manning gets a beating around these parts but he has played very well so far in the short season.   I think Gudas will help if he plays the smart game and does not get out of position on trying to lay the big hit.   The defense right now is a liability and I dont think (including Ghost) has played all that well.   

 

I accept and expected Prov to struggle a bit coming straight out of Jrs but he literally has all the tools - skating, passing, angles and smarts.  I think he will be fine but he is literally learning on the job.   This is why I was always impressed with Couts - coming out of Jrs he was going up against some of the NHL elite players and shutting them down.   Provorov will get there and defense is a totally different animal.   He is a kid playing against grown men and the adjustment to the speed of the game is going to take time.   If anything I think he has been guilty of trying to do too much.   

 

Streit is damaged goods... I have always liked him but I truly think age is catching up and he is better off getting less minutes.   McDonald is still terrible and we just have to accept he is going to be a very average to below average player until he is traded (not likely) or bought out.   I am more than happy to see Manning stay w/ the Flyers over MacDonald.   

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Bakanekimiwa said:

bigly

 

 

LOL!  I see what you did there.... tremendous, great!

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35 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

No, but quite honestly, the treatment of him was eerily close.

 

Maybe because of the Couturier stuff, but honestly, this year (with better wingers) should tell who was right or wrong on that score.  I think the jury has to be out on that, especially on the offensive side.

 

 

I know you have heard this a 1000 times - even if he is more suited to the 3C position his contract is not bad at all.

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41 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

o I will be an ad hoc priest/mullah/rabbi/reverend or whatever, and absolve you of sin.  

 

father-guido-sarducci.jpg

 

 

I knew it was you!

Edited by murraycraven
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30 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, that's fair.  I was actually uncomfortable using "tweener," because I agree it's usually used for forwards.

 

I just didn't think he'd amount to much more than an emergency injury call-up.   I hadn't seen anything (in admittedly limited viewing both in Lehigh and Philly) that made me think he'd amount to much.   If he continues with how he's been playing in pre-season and early on here, I'm happy with him.  2nd or 3rd pairing, largely, but you need those.

 

Here's what I find interesting about Manning (maybe we need a thread on him....): he was the Captain of his WHL team as a 19-year old, 54 pts in 69 games, 138 PIMs and +20. He's a tough SOB and a leader.

 

Unlike some of the guys we've drafted like that  - Kevin Marshall comes to mind - Manning can actually get around the ice well for a guy who is 6'2 200 or whatever he is. And his decision making is getting better which is what you expect from a 26 year old. The Flyers may have actually developed a D-man!

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17 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

 

I knew it was you!

Guido's the Man!~  Thanks for the laugh heading into the weekend.  . . . . .love it.

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5 hours ago, icehole said:

I completely understand the urge to keep him on the team.  We've been waiting for this for a year now.  I want something to get excited for.  I'm just worried that it will hurt the team, and more importantly, hurt him.  If he came out like ghost did, you have to keep him and figure out what to do with other dmen.  When MDZ and Gudas come back, I think provorov is the odd man out.  Not saying that MacDonald or streit or Schultz are better but they are NHL conditioned.

 

It's a fair point to say that he has probably "outgrown" juniors.  I'm sure things would be a little too easy.  I'd like him to grow physically and maturity wise before the NHL though.  What I don't know is his AHL eligibility.  Is it right that he has to be 20 to be eligible for AHL?

 

When MDZ and Gudas come back Ivan will still be in the lineup and despite his rookie mistakes will still be the 2nd or 3rd best Dman in the lineup. You can take that to the bank. Cha-ching!!!

 

Salute :beer:

Edited by OccamsRazor

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6 hours ago, icehole said:
7 hours ago, off_the_post said:

 

And when MDZ and Gudas get back and provorov is past 9 games played, what do you do with him?

LOL I have no idea.  The MDZ injury and Gudas suspension has really thrown a wrench into things.  If I had to chose I would let him stay.  I see the talent so I guess the Flyers have just have to accept his mistakes.  Fortunately for me I'm not an NHL scout but I do play one on the internet!:572958dc408d9_shakeshead:

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  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 13
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      Moderators are probably like "oh no"! I want to start by apologizing for going off the other day.  I do come here to vent.  All I want to do is talk hockey, and this is the only outlet I have.  So when I bring up a valid topic and the first two replies I get are emojis and "you know nothing about hockey", even though I've been watching hockey for 30 years, that disturbs me.  If you disagree, just tell me why.  Then we can go back and forth in a civil manner.  Again, that's why I'm here...to
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      Thinking ahead (hopefully not way ahead) I'm looking forward to the virtual group hug if/when we FINALLY win the Stanley Cup.  At that point I think we need an in person board get together to celebrate.  I say either before or after we attend the parade. 
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      Dear Icehole:   Many of us migrated from the old Philly.com site.  That was riddled with personal attacks and associated BS, not to mention pop-ups and clutter. Next month will mark the fifth year (unbelievable) since the migration.  Candidly, nothing you said or did compares to the behavior on that site.  So I will be an ad hoc priest/mullah/rabbi/reverend or whatever, and absolve you of sin.     On related note:   1) Let's give Provorov a few games before canonizi
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      Re: Provy - It occurred to me, watching last night, that we have a great coach for developing these youngsters. While Provy has struggled mightily these last few games, Hak keeps putting him out there in key situations. We are literally watching him learn the bigly  game. This is the necessary developmental process. As others have said.. he's not getting any better down in junior and he's not gonna just flip a switch and light up the NHL.    So I guess any frustrations with him would h

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