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Are the Habs still a one trick pony?


yave1964

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Montreal may have made the absolute best signing in the offseason in all of Hockey by bringing in veteran Al Montoya to back up brittle Carey Price. Montoya has a well deserved rep as being one of the best backups in the game today and with Price nursing assorted ailments already has went an insane 3-0-1 with a 1.47 goals against and a staggering .955 save percentage.

  Last year when Price went down the Habs had the leagues best record and finished as a well beaten lottery team. Condon and an assorted collection of F-Troop rejects destroyed the team in net and they fell apart.

 The Canadiens took a long hard look in the mirror over the offseason and traded the explosive Subban for the ice in his veins monster that is Shea th?&id=OIF.5w6BnvGV1ibmRE8WVaIx8A&w=277&Weber. They took a gamble on Radulov coming back from the KHL, signed Montoya traded for the feisty Andrew Shaw from Chicago and promoted kid center Alex Galchenyuk to the top line.

So far in the first 8 games they have 15 of a possible 16 points, their only loss in overtime in the second game of the year to Ottawa. In 8 games they have outscored their oppenents 29-13, a plus 16 differential in only 8 games meaning they AVERAGE beating their opponent by two goals every night. Right now they seem unstoppable. Not a single player on the team is a negative in the plus/minus category even. Weber looks like a man possessed and out to prove that Nashville made a huge mistake in moving him. While Subban is wearing boots and cowboy hats and going to bars and clubs, Weber is doing everything on the ice. He looks like the Shea Weber of a few years ago. in 8 games he has 9 points and is an insane plus 12

  So the question: are they for real? If Price goes down for a significant period of time are they still contenders?

My gut says yes, absolutely, they are doing all of this in spite of not yet establishing a real second line yet, Plekanec is struggling mightily and they are looking for playmates for him, Markov is showing his age and has been bumped down to the second pair and the second power play. They are doing as well as they are and still have room to grow in other words.

  Looking like the cream of the East.jRwQQ&w=299&h=231&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&rEven Radulov is bringing it hard every night. Weber wants a cup and it looks like his best chance to get one with this squad right here.

 

 

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@yave1964

 

You KNEW when the Canadiens made that trade that their benefits were gonna be seen up front. The cost will come back later when/if Weber's game starts to fall off some with age, and they are still holding that contract. But they are getting exactly what they paid for...and then some.

 

It was expected that he would lead them defensively. It was also expected that he would contribute offensively. But holy cow is this team playing differently from last year offensively! Remember that they started off so hot last year until Price went down. But that was more defensively led. This is BOTH!

 

I agree that this may be the best-equipped team for a playoff run at this point. More than Tampa, if they continue to play like this.

 

Talk about a turnaround!

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I felt from the beginning that the Habs won that trade, as I felt that Weber should have enough left in the tank to make it worth their while. I felt like Montreal made a big gain in leadership, and a big gain in consistency. Weber might not have the Norris Trophy that Subban has, but Weber is Weber every year, whereas with Subban, you don't necessarily know what you're going to get from him season to season.

 

But, here's what I think is funny about Weber's performance. Yes, he is offensively capable (how could he not be with that shot), but I felt like the Predators earned a slight win in that category because of what Subban has shown in the past. Well, I might have been wrong on the one advantage I thought Nashville had. "A man possessed" is probably the best way to describe Weber's play right now. I don't think he could possibly be doing any more than he is.

 

Now, is this the year? I'm far from ready to say that. I've picked Montreal to win the east a couple of times in recent years and got badly burned by their collapses. They've become one of those teams that I'll have to see win something before I'll believe it. That said, I do think they have some of the depth that they've missed in the past, so while I'm still hesitant to buy on their chances, I'll say that this team seems to have a lot more substance than some recent editions of the Canadiens.

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@ScottM

 

All depends on them being healthy. Price went down last year and everything collapsed. Personally, I think Weber's a better leader than Subban is, and so even if Price goes down, I can't see Weber allowing that kind of collapse, just because he is who he is. He will carry the piano better than Subban, IMHO, should it come to that. The only way we'll se that kind of collapse this year is if BOTH Price and Weber go down for significant time.

 

It's true that one man doesn't make a winner of a loser, but Montreal made a couple of really wise moves in the offseason so that talent-wise it's NOT just Weber and Price, thus capitalizing on Weber's leadership. He's got guys to work with who can follow his lead with some talent attached rather than just trying to play with their hearts. The heart only takes you so far. Kudos to Canadian leadership for seeing that the Weber-Subban trade wasn't all they needed to right the ship, and their decisions seem to be paying off so far.

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Getting Weber for Subban was a steal. Outright robbery IMHO. But, they are not a one-trick pony, again IMHO. They have a terrific system and seem to have no problem getting their team to stick to it. They get scoring from the whole team (which is always better than from one or two guys - just ask the Capitals) and now their D is as good as their forwards are. 

But, there is no way they get a sniff of the Cup unless Price plays his ass off. Of course, that's IMHO.... :5726b7e0b0e17_thankyou1:

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8 hours ago, yave1964 said:

So far in the first 8 games they have 15 of a possible 16 points, their only loss in overtime in the second game of the year to Ottawa.

 

Seems a lot like last year. ;)

 

It's early. The Habs always start well and then fizzle. Let's see what happens. I do think they're back in the playoffs though. :)

 

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I will believe the Canadiens are for real when I see it.

 

They started out just as hot last year, and we all saw what happened.

Sure, not having Price was a big part of that and they have him back now and better insurance in Montoya, but still, IMO, another big reason the Canadiens failed last season was the forwards group.

 

Max Pac, Plekanec, Galchenyuk, etc....those are some good forwards and they seem to be, yet again, off to good starts.

But what happens if they get an injury or two up front? What happens when the team hits a wall and more and more pressure to score is put on that group?

 

Seems to me that in addition to injuries here and there, that forwards group folded when the heat was turned up the most.

Not saying the group isn't good, but they don't exactly have a history of season long consistency AS a group for various reasons.

 

Maybe this is they year they finally get it together, but again, will believe it when I see it. Not sold on these guys as a full blown contender just yet.

 

As for the defense, yes, Weber is a monster acquisition and he along with Markove and Emelin fit in with what good Montreal teams in the past always strive for: stout defenders who can skate, move, and contribute on offense.

 

And I know Subban has many detractors, especially here, and truth be told, I was one of them too, but over the course of the last two seasons, I began to see the overall value that a guy like Subban adds in ALL facets of the game, even though he may not be considered as good a defender as Weber.

 

So I think, the Habs didn't exactly win this trade by the landslide many are making it out to be. They truly HAD to give up something (Subban) to get something (Weber), and so far, the trade is about equal for both teams....current win-loss records aside.

 

So what it comes down to is health and consistency for the Montreal Canadiens.

 

If they get both from Price and their forwards units, then I give them the thumbs up to be a contender.

If they fall back on their MO's of being wildly inconsistent and/or the injury bug really hooks them again, then they are no better than last year, Weber or no.

 

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@SpikeDDS I'm not questioning the moves they've made at all. They're very solid, and I don't think there's any question that the team has improved. This isn't a Carey Price and everyone else situation any more. I'm questioning them based on what I've come to view as the "culture of collapse." Montreal almost seems to be in the spot where Toronto is, in which they accept the failure every year and just say, "Maybe next year." This season will mark 24 years since the Habs last won the Cup. Since when has that been acceptable? And yet, I don't hear the calls for public floggings. They've simply gotten too comfortable.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Giving this thread a **BUMP**

 

I posted earlier I was not all that sold on this team....and the season, for sure, is still very early to go handing out things like division titles, president's trophies, conference titles, and Cups.....but in watching this team play since I last posted on this thread, I am starting to see signs that maybe this team really IS for real.

 

And not just the one trick pony as was suggested by the thread title.

 

The team will still need to stand the test of a grinding season, depth will be tested, and Price, at some point or another, may hit a slump himself.

That said, the team rolls out four very good lines and the defense has been steady, and on some nights, outstanding.

 

As a fan of the division rival Lightning, I'd like nothing more than to see them fall on their faces, but realistically, barring disastrous injuries and/or monster slumps, this team is looking like the one to beat in the Atlantic.

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Watching the Chicago game currently on... they're really struggling to keep possession all through the third period. The puck has spent so much time in their defensive zone that it's hardly surprising they're behind.

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3 minutes ago, Puck_Pun said:

Watching the Chicago game currently on... they're really struggling to keep possession all through the third period. The puck has spent so much time in their defensive zone that it's hardly surprising they're behind.

 

Oh no doubt the Hawks will have decidedly beaten them, but the Habs actually have been getting their fair amount of chances as well.

 

I've been watching this one on and off too, and both Crawford and Montoya have been REAL good.

At some points during the game, I thought that if not for Crawford being on his A-game, the Habs could've had an extra two goals or so...at least.

 

Al Montoya, for his part did all he could to keep his team in this.

Which pretty much underscores one of the strengths that seem to be emerging from the Canadiens as a team: If Price isn't in net, they need not worry they are gonna be blown out like they worried about with Condon in net, or Budaj/Tokarski/or anyone else they put in net.

 

Montreal kept coming too...a far cry from the skater group that seemed to fold the tents last year when the game looked like it wasn't winnable.

 

Again, not handing the Habs anything, but even a rival fan such as myself has to admit I am impressed so far with the make up, determination, and depth of this team.

 

That all said, I now hope they lose the next 6 games...  :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/13/2016 at 9:52 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Montreal kept coming too...a far cry from the skater group that seemed to fold the tents last year when the game looked like it wasn't winnable.

 

Again, not handing the Habs anything, but even a rival fan such as myself has to admit I am impressed so far with the make up, determination, and depth of this team.

 

They've never had a defenceman as good as Weber that I can remember, and they haven't had a star player of any variety other than Price for that same length of time. That's the honest truth. I forgot how much better than Subban he is. If you look at every Habs team for the past 25 years, you can't name one defenceman that they've had that would truly strike fear in the opposition. They're all no-name guys. Up front, the Habs haven't had a star forward that I can remember.

 

This is a team that has always lived off goalies and filled in the rest of their roster with scrap heap, spare part, Euro crapola. Now they have a star Canadian defenceman on their roster (almost by mistake) and the Habs don't normally acquire good Canadian born players, so this is a very unusual time for them. They might actually achieve something for a change.  :RightOn2:

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2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

They've never had a defenceman as good as Weber that I can remember, and they haven't had a star player of any variety other than Price for that same length of time. That's the honest truth. I forgot how much better than Subban he is. If you look at every Habs team for the past 25 years, you can't name one defenceman that they've had that would truly strike fear in the opposition. They're all no-name guys. Up front, the Habs haven't had a star forward that I can remember.

 

This is a team that has always lived off goalies and filled in the rest of their roster with scrap heap, spare part, Euro crapola. Now they have a star Canadian defenceman on their roster (almost by mistake) and the Habs don't normally acquire good Canadian born players, so this is a very unusual time for them. They might actually achieve something for a change.  :RightOn2:

Chris chelios? 

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5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Robinson? Harvey? Savard? 

 

Denis Savard was at the tail end of his career during Montreal's last Cup win (if I recall). You're going more than 25 years back with some of those names though. It's been a long time since the Canadiens had a player that anyone else in the league coveted besides their goalie. :)

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Denis Savard was at the tail end of his career during Montreal's last Cup win (if I recall). You're going more than 25 years back with some of those names though. It's been a long time since the Canadiens had a player that anyone else in the league coveted besides their goalie. :)

 

 

 

 

Serge Savard. You said they've never had a defenceman as good as Weber. They used  to always have defencemen as good as Weber. 

 

Subban would have been coveted by every other team in the league, like him or not. Same with Gallagher. Plekanec used to be a pretty damn good two way centre. Kovalev? Koivu? Markov? Damphouse?

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4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Serge Savard. You said they've never had a defenceman as good as Weber. They used  to always have defencemen as good as Weber. 

 

Subban would have been coveted by every other team in the league, like him or not. Same with Gallagher. Plekanec used to be a pretty damn good two way centre. Kovalev? Koivu? Markov? Damphouse?

 

I mean in the last 25 years. I know they've had good defencemen historically. :)

 

In the case of Subban, look how quickly they ran him out of town. 

 

My quick thoughts on some of the name listed:

  • Plekanec: yawn
  • Kovalev: Talented but soft (and seldom motivated) winger whose best days were in New York if I recall
  • Koivu: B-tier, undersized center that nobody envied
  • Markov: A decent defenceman but nothing special (Every team has a guy like Markov.)
  • Damphouse: Hasn't been there since the early 90's. Was a good centerman.
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  • aaah, I can't cancel my list.... :(
  • Something must have gone afoul with a forum update...
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  • the list that never ends...
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  • iieeeeeee
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38 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I mean in the last 25 years. I know they've had good defencemen historically. :)

 

In the case of Subban, look how quickly they ran him out of town. 

 

Subban isn't the first star ran out of town by a team...and he won't be the last. 

Quote

 

My quick thoughts on some of the name listed:

  • Plekanec: yawn

    As I said "used to be". He was a very good two way centre. Not a true #1, but an excellent 2nd line centre...which you need.

  • Kovalev: Talented but soft (and seldom motivated) winger

 I was never a Kovalev fan. He was one of the most talented players ever though. And coveted by plenty.

  •  
  • whose best days were in New York if I recall

  He had 3 seasons in Montreal better than his best in NY...points-wise...which in his case is how you judge him.

  • Koivu: B-tier, undersized center that nobody envied

  Huh? The guy was the heart and soul of the Habs. 

  • Markov: A decent defenceman but nothing special (Every team has a guy like Markov.)

 Are you talking about now? Cause Markovs had 5 seasons over 45 points (64 career best) So no, every team doesn't have one. 

  • Damphouse: Hasn't been there since the early 90's. Was a good centerman.
  •  
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  • aaah, I can't cancel my list.... :(
  • Something must have gone afoul with a forum update...
  •  
  • the list that never ends...
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  • iieeeeeee
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  • :(
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Just now, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Maybe I was a bit harsh on the Habs.  :)

 

Don't mind me, just feeling negative today after that 2-1 loss. :(

 

 

No worries...Philly won last night. If we were discussing this Sunday my first post to you would have been GFY!  :56ce53d1d6689_IDunnoSmiley:

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9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

They've never had a defenceman as good as Weber that I can remember, and they haven't had a star player of any variety other than Price for that same length of time. That's the honest truth. I forgot how much better than Subban he is. If you look at every Habs team for the past 25 years, you can't name one defenceman that they've had that would truly strike fear in the opposition. They're all no-name guys. Up front, the Habs haven't had a star forward that I can remember.

 

This is a team that has always lived off goalies and filled in the rest of their roster with scrap heap, spare part, Euro crapola. Now they have a star Canadian defenceman on their roster (almost by mistake) and the Habs don't normally acquire good Canadian born players, so this is a very unusual time for them. They might actually achieve something for a change.  :RightOn2:

 

I have been a fan of the NHL since only the mid 90's (relatively short time compared to many other fans on here), so going by that, I would have to say Shea Weber ranks among the top for Montreal as far as defense goes, alright.

 

They still have had some very good and perhaps underrated defenseman during that time though.

Andrei Markov, even in his advanced age today, is quite good. He was always injury plagued up until recently. One could only wonder what his career would have been like had he been able to stay healty during his time in Montreal as a younger player.

 

Also, another good defenseman that comes to mind (whom Montreal, IMO, boneheadedly traded to Philadelphia along with John LeClair) was Eric Desjardins.

Desjardins would do many things for the team, including run a PP, and do them well.

 

Hmm..now that I think of it, maybe MTL's 'love affair' with DAVID DESHARNAIS stems from the fact that they KNOW they screwed up when they traded Desjardins, and Desharnais sounds SOOO similar, that they want to make sure they hang on to him and not make the same mistake twice!

Nevermind that he is a tiny forward while Desjardins was a good sized defenseman.....the Habs have never been known to put logic ahead of coaches that speak French.... :ph34r:

 

But I digress....

 

Some other D?

Patrice Brisbois? Stephane Quintal?

Brisbois was similar to Desjardins, though probably not as smooth and all-doing. Quintal was probably about as "tough" as Weber on the ice in terms of how he played...though of course, Weber also has the offensive skill over him.

 

Vladimir Malakov was another good, though oft injured defenseman.

 

And oh hey, let's not forget PK Subban himself, the guy Weber was traded for. He isn't chopped liver (though his ANTICS might be :ahappy: ), and IMO, he has actually improved and continues to improve as an overall defenseman in the league.

 

Your point is well taken about Weber though.

Hard for even the defensemen I mentioned (ones I could remember off the top of my head from watching them on National Hockey Night on ESPN as a child) to measure up to Shea Weber.

 

Although I do think your comment bout the Habs filling in their roster with "spare parts, scrap heap, and crapola" IS  a bit harsh, I cannot dispute that Shea Weber is one of their better acquisitions/signings on their blue line in a very long time.

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5 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

I have been a fan of the NHL since only the mid 90's (relatively short time compared to many other fans on here), so going by that, I would have to say Shea Weber ranks among the top for Montreal as far as defense goes, alright.

 

:RightOn2:

 

5 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Hmm..now that I think of it, maybe MTL's 'love affair' with DAVID DESHARNAIS stems from the fact that they KNOW they screwed up when they traded Desjardins, and Desharnais sounds SOOO similar, that they want to make sure they hang on to him and not make the same mistake twice!

Nevermind that he is a tiny forward while Desjardins was a good sized defenseman.....the Habs have never been known to put logic ahead of coaches that speak French.... :ph34r:

 

:biggrin:

 

5 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Some other D?

Patrice Brisbois? Stephane Quintal?

Brisbois was similar to Desjardins, though probably not as smooth and all-doing. Quintal was probably about as "tough" as Weber on the ice in terms of how he played...though of course, Weber also has the offensive skill over him.

 

Patrice Breeze-by? ;)

 

5 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Although I do think your comment bout the Habs filling in their roster with "spare parts, scrap heap, and crapola" IS  a bit harsh, I cannot dispute that Shea Weber is one of their better acquisitions/signings on their blue line in a very long time.

 

Yeah I was feeling snarky after the Leafs loss. My bad. :(

 

 

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