Is This Finally Weber's Year?

[ScottM]

 

I've long considered Shea Weber the best active defenseman without a Norris, and probably one of the best since the inception of the award not to win one. That said, if I were to cast my vote at the moment, it would have to go to Weber, and as big of a Karlsson fan as you guys know I am, I have to admit it really wouldn't be close. A quarter of the way into the season, he's got eight goals, nine assists, is a +17, and leads the league in power play goals.

 

With all the debate there was about the Weber-Subban trade, it seems pretty clear who's winning the trade at this moment, and it almost seems as though Weber has found a new life in Montreal. I don't know how realistic it is to expect him to continue the pace he's on at the moment, but even if he falls off a bit, he's bound to remain a strong contender. Will he finally get that elusive Norris?

[WordsOfWisdom]

He has been absolutely dominant. Seems so out of place in Montreal. Every time I see Weber wearing a Habs uniform I think: But he's not Russian and he's not French. He's English-Canadian. Shouldn't he be in Anaheim right now or Boston or Pittsburgh or New York or Florida or Dallas or anywhere other than Montreal?  

 

All joking aside, I think players should earn more votes when they play for teams in strong hockey markets.   

[BluPuk]

I think it points up what's wrong with the "voting" for some of the NHL trophies. It's the defensemen who get the most goals and points who get the trophy for best defenseman. That leaves players like Doughty and Weber out. As we saw in the "World Cup of Hockey", it's OK just to be good at defense. Not knocking Karlsson or anyone else, just saying maybe there ought to be some recognition for players who are really, really good at just being defensive.

[flyercanuck]

17 minutes ago, BluPuk said:

I think it points up what's wrong with the "voting" for some of the NHL trophies. It's the defensemen who get the most goals and points who get the trophy for best defenseman. That leaves players like Doughty and Weber out. As we saw in the "World Cup of Hockey", it's OK just to be good at defense. Not knocking Karlsson or anyone else, just saying maybe there ought to be some recognition for players who are really, really good at just being defensive.

 

I hate giving the Norris to the guy with the most points. If he plays well defensively, fine. If he's below average at defending, he's not much of a defenceman IMO.

 

Webers been one of the best there is for a long time. Not only is he good at both ends of the ice...he puts the fear of God into the opposing forwards.

 

If I'm a goalie, I'm liking that far more than the guy who pinches not only at the right times, but at the wrong ones equally as much. But gets all the glory for racking up points.

[SpikeDDS]

Agree with all that the Norris should be given to the best defenseman, not the highest scoring one. Having said that, there are two sides of the ice, and a Dman's contributions on the blue line in the O-zone shouldn't be ignored, but rather balanced with their acumen for playing in their own end. If that occasionally means that the top scorer gets the Norris, OK. It shouldn't JUST be about that though.

 

Having said that, so far this year, the Norris pick is easily Weber, who is doing all things well. Hard to argue anyone else at the moment. The transmogrification of Montreal from last year to this year is in good part because of his addition.

 

I've gotta say that I've always kinda thought that Subban was a bit overrated. I really never put him at Weber's level. He's a solid Dman. But he's not a Weber. Weber is pretty special. Said transmogrification is evidence of that, even if he's not the ONLY reason. Certainly Price's return has impacted there as well. But there's no denying Weber's impact.

[ScottM]

I'll go to my grave insisting that they completely blew last year's Norris, but I completely agree with the Weber vs Subban comparisons, which is why I thought Montreal won that trade. I also think there needs to be a balance when comparing players, and Weber wins that big time here. (Btw, that's also why it hacks me off that defensemen are very rarely seriously considered for the Hart.) I'm not going to down Subban's Norris year, because that was a great season, but it stands out a lot from the rest of his career. Weber is consistently great year in and year out. Even so, this season has been eye-popping so far. In any given season, as a Sens fan, I go in hoping to see Karlsson win the award, but I greatly admire what Weber is doing this year, and I'll shed absolutely no tears if he wins. If this continues, it will be very well deserved.

[Super Subban]

If Weber doesn't win it then it will be because they love offense and that is it . 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

22 hours ago, Super Subban said:

If Weber doesn't win it then it will be because they love offense and that is it . 

 

That's no big revelation...the league has awarded the Norris to more offensive minded guys in the past over more deserving DEFENSIVE minded players.

 

But ya know...since you typed in the line, "...if Weber doesn't win it...", I will argue that Weber's old buddy Ryan Suter may have just as much claim to the Norris as he does.

 

Not saying Suter should be awarded the Norris (let's face it....this award is going to Brent Burns), but if you say Weber can win it, then I'd say Suter is right there with him.

I looked at their numbers, and they are almost glaringly identical.

 

Weber's big advantage over Suter is he has more PP goals and points (though overall offense is about the same this year), and Weber hits and blocks more shots..........however, Suter has slightly better SHP, AND he doesn't GIVE AWAY the puck nearly as much as Weber, while taking the puck away much more often.

And oh yea, while I don't put a ton of stock in it, +/- is HEAVILY in favor of Suter.

 

Sounds pretty "defensive" minded (while still providing offense) on Suter's part.....but oh, yea...the league probably likes Weber better over Suter because Weber has more offense  ....AND he now plays on the Canadiens whilst Suter plays on some team calling themselves, "The Wilderness" or something like that....

 

But again, it's all speculation.

Burns will sit back and say, "That is all very nice, guys....now, where is my award" 

[ScottM]

I think things have changed a lot since I originally started this thread anyway. Weber (and his team) seems to have fallen off quite a bit, and I really won't be surprised if he's not a finalist, unless things change.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

11 minutes ago, ScottM said:

I think things have changed a lot since I originally started this thread anyway. Weber (and his team) seems to have fallen off quite a bit, and I really won't be surprised if he's not a finalist, unless things change.

 

Weber is a fine, fine defenseman. Elite even.

I am NOT taking that away from him.

 

What I DO find funny is all this praise being heaped on him since he became a Montreal Canadien though.

Weber is doing what Weber has ALWAYS done since his days on the Predators.

Yet all I heard from most fans is how Weber was overrated, made too much money, and NO ONE that I knew of was giving him any consideration (not even close) to being able to win the Norris.

 

Now he is with the high profile Habs and all of a sudden, people think he is the next big thing in defense. This is downright hilarious.

Weber is Weber....an elite D-man ANY team would want playing for them. Always has been.

I just shudder to think what kind of monstrosity of a defense the Preds would have had had they been able to keep both Suter AND Weber together long term!

 

But as far as the Norris goes, it's Burns' to lose, but setting him aside, we have Suter, Weber of course, and even Hedman and Karlsson (both of whom have better offensive numbers than either Weber or Suter...and even a hair better than Burns to this point), as guys who, if they have monster finishes (while Burns regresses a bit) have a shot.

 

But I think it's safe to say that unless Burns has some debilitating injury from now till season's end, or he completely falls off a cliff stat-wise, as good a season as each of those guys are having, they aren't touching Brent this year.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Yup. Defensively Burns falls below, but offensively he tilts the ice and drives offense to a degree that makes it seem inconsequential.

 

And he is not that bad defensive side. Not a Phil housley type by any means. He is still one of the Sharks top Pkers, near tied with martin for 3rd in SHTOI. At ES he has been monstrously tilting the ice and is +22, his partner Martin the only other one who is close with +16, Pavelski 3rd with a +9. Not like most stacked teams where everyone in the top icetime is high on the +/-

[JR Ewing]

Goals Created

Burns - 37

Weber - 19

 

Goals Against / 60

Burns - 1.83 with an OnIceSV% of .950

Weber - 1.32 with an OnIceSV% of .937

 

I dunno... I'm not seeing 18 goals worth of extra defense on Weber's side of the ledger.

 

 

[ruxpin]

If the season ended today, Burns wins the Norris.

 

I figure the finalists are Burns, Weber, and Suter.   Possibly Hedman or Karlsson (I don't think this year is a Norris year for Karlsson).    Burns wins.

[ScottM]

I've long been high on Weber. He's among the best to never win the Norris, imho. But, at this point, it's definitely not his year.

 

As for Burns... You know how I've been complaining about Karlsson not winning the Norris last year? Well, if things don't change and Burns doesn't win it this year, expect the same thing.

 

I have to disagree that Karlsson isn't having a Norris caliber year. He's third in assists, and not far off of a point per game clip, AND, it's widely acknowledged that with the new system he looks better in his own end. I definitely think he's having a Norris caliber year, though I don't think he's as good as he was last year, and Burns is putting on a show right now. Without a lot of digging, off the top of my head, I'd vote Burns, Karlsson, and I'm not quite sure on the third. That would take some thought.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, ScottM said:

I have to disagree that Karlsson isn't having a Norris caliber year

 

Oh, all I meant is that I don't think this is the year he wins it.  I didn't mean to imply it wasn't "Norris Caliber."

 

I think he's probably a finalist or just misses (if Suter makes it).

[flyercanuck]

On 2/17/2017 at 2:25 PM, Super Subban said:

If Weber doesn't win it then it will be because they love offense and that is it . 

 

I'm a big fan of Weber, but it's funny having you post that with your username. Subban didn't win a Norris because of his D. 

 

 And welcome to the board.

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 2/18/2017 at 9:27 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Weber is doing what Weber has ALWAYS done since his days on the Predators.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?  

 

On 2/18/2017 at 9:27 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Now he is with the high profile Habs and all of a sudden, people think he is the next big thing in defense. This is downright hilarious.

 

I do think turnabout is fair play though. If you've ever been a Blue Jays or Expos fan in baseball, this is exactly the same way that MLB treats players when they leave Toronto. A star player in Toronto gets no recognition from the baseball media whatsoever. The moment they leave, the accolades start pouring in on how wonderful and amazing they are. 

 

See:

• Vladimir Guerrero
• Roy Halladay
• Pedro Martinez
• (and now) Edwin Encarnacion

Watch how Major League Baseball and the media spins Encarnacion into a Hall of Fame player now that he's not in Toronto any more. During his time here, he was the quietest 40-hr hitter in baseball history. The Jays had better than the "Bash Brothers" of the 80's with McGwire and Canseco, we had the "Bash TRIPLETS" of Bautista, Encarnacion, and Donaldson! Nobody ever said a peep about it outside of Toronto. 

 

Oh well. What can ya do?

 

[Super Subban]

It might be Burns year but I do think they love offense and I think we all know that.