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WordsOfWisdom    819

tor.png

 

Then (last season) and now:

 

Despite improving from 28th to 6th place offensively, 29th best PP to 11th, and 13th best PK to 4th, the Leafs have regressed from 24th best defensively to 28th.

 

What are the chances of the Leafs prying someone like Doughty or Kopitar out of LA? Or someone like Toews or Keith out of Chicago? The chasm is so wide that the Leafs need someone in here that is the best in the NHL at what they do, with a proven winning track record, not a "top 50" or "top 100" or whatever. Thoughts?

 

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BluPuk    357

There is no way in hell (sadly) they get any of the players you mention. Those guys are the pillars on which those franchises are built. They might be able to get some lesser players but we already have a handful of those. 

I watched part of a game the other night between Ottawa and the Sharks, in San Hose. Watching that game, I could see that we were not NEARLY as good as either one of those teams. Not in talent so much as in determination. How many times last night did you see a Leaf not making a real effort to get the puck? I saw it waay too many times. Bozak is a major offender as are JVR, and several others. To play this game well, you have to be the first guy to the puck, and you have to be in a foul, foul mood when you arrive there. We are simply not tough enough, and I'm not talking about fighting. Ottawa won that game and not because they have more talent than the Sharks. They won it because they were determined they were going to. I have not seen the Leafs win one single game this year in which they won it because of puck pursuit - wanting it more than the other guy.

Sorry, WOW I'm sure this doesn't help but I call 'em as I see 'em....

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JR Ewing    1,003

I think the Leafs will be in a similar position to the Oilers pretty soon, with a nice group of forwards, but a weak blueline, and not one other team in the National League will want to throw them a life preserver.

 

-Chances of getting Doughty, Kopitar, Toews or Keith? 0%

-Chances that Leafs fans will be happy about the price it will cost them to get a quality blueliner? Again, it's 0%. The price would likely be a Marner or Nylander, and most of the fans will freak out at the cost of doing business when you absolutely are forced to address a need via trade.

 

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Podein25    2,896

I think it's hilarious that this thread, with its title, is in the Leafs forum. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

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25 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

I think it's hilarious that this thread, with its title, is in the Leafs forum. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

Well, not really, when you consider these:

 

DaFence.jpg

 

 

Toronto ownership and management has several of these built around Leaf HQ to make sure players, who suddenly realize where they signed, where they were drafted, and how long they have to be there, don't simply bolt down to Buffalo out of sheer desperation........... oh wait.... :ph34r:

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WordsOfWisdom    819
6 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

Despite improving from 28th to 6th place offensively, 29th best PP to 11th, and 13th best PK to 4th, the Leafs have regressed from 24th best defensively to 28th.

 

I forgot to mention that despite the significant improvement in all other areas, they are still in last place in the Eastern Conference! 

 

Will this be a focal point at the trade deadline and/or next off-season? 

 

 

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flyercanuck    6,432
6 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

tor.png

 

Then (last season) and now:

 

Despite improving from 28th to 6th place offensively, 29th best PP to 11th, and 13th best PK to 4th, the Leafs have regressed from 24th best defensively to 28th.

 

What are the chances of the Leafs prying someone like Doughty or Kopitar out of LA? Or someone like Toews or Keith out of Chicago? The chasm is so wide that the Leafs need someone in here that is the best in the NHL at what they do, with a proven winning track record, not a "top 50" or "top 100" or whatever. Thoughts?

 

 

You've got a young nucleus to build on. I could see wanting Doughty...at 27 and arguably the best defenceman in the league. Keith is 33, so when Marner/Mathews/Nylander are looking playoff ready, his wheels will likely be falling off. Kopitar and Toews both have huge contracts (didn't you guys spend the last few years getting rid of a bunch of this sort of thing?) and aren't getting any younger. And you'd likely have to give up a LOT to get any of them. 

 

Keep building. 

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WordsOfWisdom    819
4 hours ago, BluPuk said:

There is no way in hell (sadly) they get any of the players you mention. Those guys are the pillars on which those franchises are built. They might be able to get some lesser players but we already have a handful of those. 

 

The only reason I suggest it is because it would allow players like Matthews to learn from the best. I'm not sure how much he can learn about being a #1 center from Bozak. 

 

If the Leafs had someone like that, it takes the pressure off Matthews. You can let him be the #2 center and grow into the role of being #1 slowly. The same is true of the defencemen. A player like Keith or Doughty would elevate the Rielly's and Gardiner's of the world. When you have the very best guy in the league as your partner, that's quite a difference.

 

The presence of veteran players that are stars (not just role players) greatly helps the development of young players in my opinion. :)

 

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16 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I forgot to mention that despite the significant improvement in all other areas, they are still in last place in the Eastern Conference! 

 

Will this be a focal point at the trade deadline and/or next off-season? 

 

 

 

I think the way the Leafs are looking right now is pretty typical of a team with hotshot young offensive talent.

You know, score the goal, score the goal, score the goal....before they realize...."Errr, but we can't win consistently without the defense"

 

I would think defensemen and defensive structure would ALWAYS be in the plans for any given team (even Toronto!)...it will just be a matter of "Do they have the personnel to play it properly".

That's what the Leafs have to ask themselves, then make their roster decisions based on that.

 

There is also the very real possibility that the Leafs will NEVER be a great defensive team.

However, if they can just be 'decent', then get ahold of a leak-proof, reliable goaltender who can bail the team out whenever the inevitable defensive gaffes occur.

Think bailing out the defense along the lines of Craig Anderson in Ottawa, Ben Bishop in TB, Roberto Luongo in Florda, Kari Lehtonen in Dallas (Hah!! Just kidding about Lehtonen, because, you know, he Lets Four In :rofl: ).

 

In today's NHL, the Leafs can STILL win without having a complete lock down defense...so long as they can score (least of the team's problems moving forward), be decent defensively, and have a goalie in net NOT named Frederik Andersen, Karri Ramo, or Jhonas Enroth there to bail out the defense. :)

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WordsOfWisdom    819
13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You've got a young nucleus to build on. I could see wanting Doughty...at 27 and arguably the best defenceman in the league. Keith is 33, so when Marner/Mathews/Nylander are looking playoff ready, his wheels will likely be falling off. Kopitar and Toews both have huge contracts (didn't you guys spend the last few years getting rid of a bunch of this sort of thing?) and aren't getting any younger. And you'd likely have to give up a LOT to get any of them. 

 

Keep building. 

 

Fair enough.

 

Imagine that you have the following group of players to work with in a trade:

  • Bozak
  • Van Riemsdyk
  • Komarov
  • Polak
  • Marincin
  • Hunwick
  • Pick one: Gardiner or Rielly
  • Holland (just kidding)

What do you think the Leafs could get as an upgrade on the blueline? :56ce53d1d6689_IDunnoSmiley:

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Podein25    2,896
35 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

What do you think the Leafs could get as an upgrade on the blueline?

 

Luke Schenn? :5726ba4ad74b2_blowingakiss:

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flyercanuck    6,432
2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Fair enough.

 

Imagine that you have the following group of players to work with in a trade:

  • Bozak
  • Van Riemsdyk
  • Komarov
  • Polak
  • Marincin
  • Hunwick
  • Pick one: Gardiner or Rielly
  • Holland (just kidding)

What do you think the Leafs could get as an upgrade on the blueline? :56ce53d1d6689_IDunnoSmiley:

 

You should be adding to Gardiner and Rielly, not trading them away.

 

I'm the wrong guy to ask about JVR...glad he's gone from Philly. He's talented, and soft as butter. But he certainly has value. Good defencemen are hard to pry away from anyone who has them. You have to overpay to get them usually. You're better off drafting your own. 

 

The Leafs aren't contending anytime soon. Just like the Flyers (who started with a better nucleus) there's more pieces to add before they can contend. You've got good management (finally) just enjoy the process.

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JR Ewing    1,003
8 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You should be adding to Gardiner and Rielly, not trading them away.

 

I'm the wrong guy to ask about JVR...glad he's gone from Philly. He's talented, and soft as butter. But he certainly has value. Good defencemen are hard to pry away from anyone who has them. You have to overpay to get them usually. You're better off drafting your own. 

 

The Leafs aren't contending anytime soon. Just like the Flyers (who started with a better nucleus) there's more pieces to add before they can contend. You've got good management (finally) just enjoy the process.

 

*cough* Larsson/Hall *cough*

 

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WordsOfWisdom    819
3 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Luke Schenn? :5726ba4ad74b2_blowingakiss:

 

:5726b5f90a35d_idontthinkso:

 

LOL.  

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WordsOfWisdom    819
1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

*cough* Larsson/Hall *cough*

 

 

That's basically the corner that the Leafs are painting themselves into. We're going to be two or three years into the current rebuild with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, etc...  and we're still going to be looking at a defensive group that consists of Rielly, Gardiner, Hunwick, Marincin, Polak, Zaitsev, et all. 

 

(Hunwick has actually been a pleasant surprise this season. Greatly improved over last year. Zaitsev has his moments too.)

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JR Ewing    1,003
2 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

That's basically the corner that the Leafs are painting themselves into. We're going to be two or three years into the current rebuild with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, etc...  and we're still going to be looking at a defensive group that consists of Rielly, Gardiner, Hunwick, Marincin, Polak, Zaitsev, et all. 

 

(Hunwick has actually been a pleasant surprise this season. Greatly improved over last year. Zaitsev has his moments too.)

 

You'll like the player you get, but not the price. Not even a little bit.

 

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WordsOfWisdom    819
1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

You've got good management (finally) just enjoy the process.

 

That's kind of like telling someone to enjoy a colonoscopy. We know it needs to be done, but we're anxious to see the end result, not so happy to enjoy the process.  :InnocentSmiley:

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WordsOfWisdom    819
1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

I'm the wrong guy to ask about JVR...glad he's gone from Philly. He's talented, and soft as butter. But he certainly has value.

 

If the Leafs traded JVR (and I think they will this season), he alone should be able to fetch a defenceman that upgrades the current group.  

 

If Bozak + JVR were packaged in the same deal, I would expect an all-star defenceman in return. :)

 

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flyercanuck    6,432
9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

If the Leafs traded JVR (and I think they will this season), he alone should be able to fetch a defenceman that upgrades the current group.  

 

If Bozak + JVR were packaged in the same deal, I would expect an all-star defenceman in return. :)

 

 

Upgrading the defence is easily done. Heck we'll trade you MDZ at the deadline for picks.

Allstar defence? Good luck with that.

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WordsOfWisdom    819
4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Upgrading the defence is easily done. Heck we'll trade you MDZ at the deadline for picks.

Allstar defence? Good luck with that.

 

Who is MDZ?  :56ce53d1d6689_IDunnoSmiley:

 

 

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WordsOfWisdom    819
20 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Michael Del Zotto.

 

 

Oh. :)

 

The thing is, the Leafs wouldn't be trading away any picks to acquire an upgrade at defence. It would be existing roster players only, and none of the kids. 

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flyercanuck    6,432
28 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Who is MDZ?  :56ce53d1d6689_IDunnoSmiley:

 

 

 

The guy is practically from Toronto...

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