Should the Flyers re-sign Mason?

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Is this assuming Stolarz would get picked up by Vegas? I don't think he would really. That said, unless he finds some other goalie somewhere, Hex does need to sign and expose one goalie. My guess is Mason will be resigned and protected, and they'll roll the dice on Stolarz.

 

I just have a hard time thinking Vegas will be looking for unproven goalies, when there will be a good 2-3 who do have NHL experience and who will likely be available to them. At best, Stolarz could be considered a third goalie and prospect, but I think there are better options around the league for that as well (Subban comes to mind). I think if the plan was to possibly go with Stolarz moving forward, he would be seeing more ice time. That could change of course. If Stolarz sees an uptick in ice time, that could be a sign Mason is on the move.

 

That said, I'm not high on Mason. I won't cry if we lose him somehow. I don't think he's a bad goalie. I do think he's an NHL goalie. I just don't think he's a guy who will steal too many games. Every year, goalies stealing playoff games are integral to deep runs. I just don't see Mason being that guy.

 

Mason could end up like Beezer did for Boosh.  The guy anchoring a team capably as a youthful future starter emerges (we have several contenders including Stolarz).

 

While I agree that there are several goaltenders sure to be out there with more experience and a better history than Mason or Stolarz, there aren't many with good contract situations.  

 

And there certainly won't be many better YOUNG prospect goalies than Stolarz exposed.  Not saying they take him, but the Knights will have to select 30 players which is A TON.  They will have to select several players that simply will not play in the NHL next season.  If you select 2 top tier goalies who make a good amount of money, Stolarz might start to look pretty good by the time they get to the "P's".

 

Everyone thinks they'll take Read.  They might.  But if I'm Vegas and I take Jimmy Howard from the Redwings to be my starter, Stolarz (a guy who has won every NHL game he's started and shut out half of them) and is still on an ELC,  isn't a bad choice for a backup.  

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I'd be gobsmacked if Vegas took Stollie. Lots of other, better options out there. 

 

for less money... on entry level contracts... who have played better in their first two games?

If so, I promise those guys will be protected.  

 

Remember Vegas is team building here, not just lineup building.  Are you telling me that you think there will be multiple other young goalies on ELC's who make less than a million and have one all the games they've started, shutting out half of them?

 

They'll pick a starter and a capable backup, but there's no reason they shouldn't take Stolarz if he's available.  He costs them nothing and is instant depth chart building.  

 

 

[radoran]

They can select one player from each team. There may well be more valuable pieces exposed by the Flyers.

 

They absolutely COULD take Stolarz.

[elmatus]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

Everyone thinks they'll take Read.  They might.  But if I'm Vegas and I take Jimmy Howard from the Redwings to be my starter, Stolarz (a guy who has won every NHL game he's started and shut out half of them) and is still on an ELC,  isn't a bad choice for a backup.  

 

Point taken. I think a lot will also come down to goalies that are or are not moved this year. With situations like whats' going down in Pittsburgh and Tampa, it's hard to really foresee what players will be on the move. If the Bolts can't find a suitable return for Bishop, they may just leave him exposed to avoid losing one of their young core players. I somehow doubt it'll happen, but you never know.

 

Similarly, I think the very small sample size for Stolarz at the NHL level is a factor for sure. I certainly hope he turns out to be NHL-caliber, but we haven't seen him enough yet. He's definitely on the right track though.

 

I'm thinking they'll round out with two proven NHL goalies at least. The third may come down to dollars as you say. Does that make Stolarz a preferable option over a skater? I don't know... I guess it could make him a contender, assuming he doesn't slip up too much in the coming months.

 

Hard to say really.

[RJ8812]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

for less money... on entry level contracts... who have played better in their first two games?

If so, I promise those guys will be protected.  

 

Remember Vegas is team building here, not just lineup building.  Are you telling me that you think there will be multiple other young goalies on ELC's who make less than a million and have one all the games they've started, shutting out half of them?

 

They'll pick a starter and a capable backup, but there's no reason they shouldn't take Stolarz if he's available.  He costs them nothing and is instant depth chart building.  

 

 

 

Stolarz will not be on his ELC next season though 

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Point taken. I think a lot will also come down to goalies that are or are not moved this year. With situations like whats' going down in Pittsburgh and Tampa, it's hard to really foresee what players will be on the move. If the Bolts can't find a suitable return for Bishop, they may just leave him exposed to avoid losing one of their young core players. I somehow doubt it'll happen, but you never know.

 

Similarly, I think the very small sample size for Stolarz at the NHL level is a factor for sure. I certainly hope he turns out to be NHL-caliber, but we haven't seen him enough yet. He's definitely on the right track though.

 

I'm thinking they'll round out with two proven NHL goalies at least. The third may come down to dollars as you say. Does that make Stolarz a preferable option over a skater? I don't know... I guess it could make him a contender, assuming he doesn't slip up too much in the coming months.

 

Hard to say really.

Isn't Bishop UFA?  They'd like to move him to get something for him, but they can just ignore him and protect Vasilevsky and then they're in the same boat as the Flyers where they'd just need to sign someone exposable to fulfill the requirements.  

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

 

Stolarz will not be on his ELC next season though 

 

Okay, you're right.  I forgot.  Scratch that one off.  

I still think it's not completely impossible they'd take him.  The rest is all valid.  Even if they draft him as a RFA, they'll be able to resign him for a limited cap hit in comparison to vet goalies with big fat long contracts.

[AJgoal]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

for less money... on entry level contracts... who have played better in their first two games?

If so, I promise those guys will be protected. 

 

 

 

A lot of folks think Fluery gets moved, but I'm not sure that will be possible, which would make Murray available. Rask or Subban will be available. Hellberg. Gudlevkis. Reimer or Luongo. Lots of other choices out there. Add to that, I don't think Stolarz is the best goalie in the system, so you can risk losing him in the draft.

[elmatus]

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Isn't Bishop UFA?  They'd like to move him to get something for him, but they can just ignore him and protect Vasilevsky and then they're in the same boat as the Flyers where they'd just need to sign someone exposable to fulfill the requirements.  

 

Yeah, I think he is. That said, I could definitely see there being a bit of partnering between the two teams to get Bishop signed to a reasonable contract and leaving him exposed. I imagine there will be a number of such backroom deals going on anyway. This would only serve as one example.

[AJgoal]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Isn't Bishop UFA?  They'd like to move him to get something for him, but they can just ignore him and protect Vasilevsky and then they're in the same boat as the Flyers where they'd just need to sign someone exposable to fulfill the requirements.  

They will expose Gudlevkis, who has better AHL and comparable NHL stats to Stolarz.

[King Knut]

40 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

A lot of folks think Fluery gets moved, but I'm not sure that will be possible, which would make Murray available. Rask or Subban will be available. Hellberg. Gudlevkis. Reimer or Luongo. Lots of other choices out there. Add to that, I don't think Stolarz is the best goalie in the system, so you can risk losing him in the draft.

 

Yeah, I can't see how Fleury gets moved, but I think the Penguins will do what they have to in order to not lose a Stanley Cup winning goalie on an ELC outright.  That's a pretty extended contract.  They'll have to retain some salary AND convince him to waive his generous NMC.   I think the Penguins will trade Murray before losing him to the draft though.  They know what they've got there.  

 

Of the other guys you mentioned, I'm not sure any are in quite the same category as Stolarz.  Maybe Subban?  Rask is NMC, so the Bruins are in a similar situation to the Penguins with Subban.  Rask's contract is worse though.  Vegas would never take him anyway with that behemoth.  He'll be harder to trade as well.  But if you're Boston, you'll eat some of his salary in order to keep Subban if you think he's worth it.  Unlike the penguins they have a nice cheap vet to expose in Khudobin in case they are somehow able to move Rask.

 

It will definitely be a buyer's market for goalies this year.  

[elmatus]

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Yeah, I can't see how Fleury gets moved.  That's a pretty extended contract.  They'll have to retain some salary AND convince him to waive his generous NMC.   I think the Penguins will trade Murray before losing him to the draft though.  They know what they've got there.  They could also elect to just take the 8 "anywhere" protections and save them both and lose a better position player than they would have otherwise.  

 

I think the 8 anywhere positions extend only to skaters. The one goalie rule stands either way.

[AJgoal]

11 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I think the 8 anywhere positions extend only to skaters. The one goalie rule stands either way.

 

Correct. Seven forwards, three defensemen, and one goalie or eight skaters and one goalie. Teams can't protect more than one goalie.

[elmatus]

26 minutes ago, King Knut said:

It will definitely be a buyer's market for goalies this year.  

 

Part of me does wonder if Hex will be looking around some. Again, I don't think Mason is the guy. I don't imagine Hex does either. And you're right about the buyer's market for goalies. I somehow doubt anything will come of it for PHI, but you never know. Hex has done more with less.

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Part of me does wonder if Hex will be looking around some.

 

Which part? You're thorax?

[King Knut]

31 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I think the 8 anywhere positions extend only to skaters. The one goalie rule stands either way.

Yeah totally.  I forgot that part.  

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

Part of me does wonder if Hex will be looking around some. Again, I don't think Mason is the guy. I don't imagine Hex does either. And you're right about the buyer's market for goalies. I somehow doubt anything will come of it for PHI, but you never know. Hex has done more with less.

 

Something might come of it for the Flyers after both drafts.

Theoretically Hextall could do nothing with Mason now and protect (or expose) Stolarz and just see who's out there after the dust settles.  

 

Hextall could always make a move to get a guy like Fleury or Rask with the other team retaining some salary and then just expose him.  

Example:  If you could get Feury for 3.75 million for two years, with the Penguins retaining 2 million, the Flyers get a stop gap until a young dude emerges for less and a shorter duration than a new deal for Mason and the Penguins get a get out of jail free card to keep Murray and they're rid of that cap hit in two years as opposed to buying him out which would take longer.  Worst part is the Flyers have to then protect Fleury and expose Stolarz... which they might do anyway.  

 If it wasn't the Penguins, it would seem like the kind of deal Hextall just might go for.  

 

But the good new is, there are other teams with NMC goalies on their hands.  Though there's NO way I make a deal like this for Rask.  That dude's under contract 'til 2021 and even if Boston eats 2 million of his salary, that's still a $5milion cap hit for 5 years, which defeats the purpose of making a deal like this.  

 

 

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Something might come of it for the Flyers after both drafts.

Theoretically Hextall could do nothing with Mason now and protect (or expose) Stolarz and just see who's out there after the dust settles.  

 

Hextall could always make a move to get a guy like Fleury or Rask with the other team retaining some salary and then just expose him.  

Example:  If you could get Feury for 3.75 million for two years, with the Penguins retaining 2 million, the Flyers get a stop gap until a young dude emerges for less and a shorter duration than a new deal for Mason and the Penguins get a get out of jail free card to keep Murray and they're rid of that cap hit in two years as opposed to buying him out which would take longer.  Worst part is the Flyers have to then protect Fleury and expose Stolarz... which they might do anyway.  

 If it wasn't the Penguins, it would seem like the kind of deal Hextall just might go for.  

 

But the good new is, there are other teams with NMC goalies on their hands.  Though there's NO way I make a deal like this for Rask.  That dude's under contract 'til 2021 and even if Boston eats 2 million of his salary, that's still a $5milion cap hit for 5 years, which defeats the purpose of making a deal like this.  

 

 

 

 

 

You can probably get both for pennies on the dollar. One of the things the Flyers are going to have a lot of this summer is cap space. You can bet teams like Boston, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay will be calling. I could very easily see Hextall picking up a Fleury or Rask or BIshop, especially if there's an asset that's attached along with it. For instance, if Pittsburgh is willing to eat salary and add a prospect like Tristan Jarry, I see Hextall doing it. With Boston, if they eat some of Rask's salary and include a guy like Jacob Forsbacka-Karlsson, then I see Hextall doing it. With Tampa Bay, I doubt Yzerman eats money, but if he can move Bishop and add a guy like Matthew Spencer, then Hextall will do it.

 

I konw there's hesitation with adding a guy like Rask, but he's only 29 and by the time he finishes his contract, you're looking at a 35 year old, which really isn't old with regards to goaltenders. On top of it, Rask has a career .926 save percentage, which is a good indicator of what kind of goaltender he is. You can't go wrong with that. He's also a guy who can help groom the next goaltender, so say if the Flyers decice they go with Sandstrom or Hart, they've got that legitimate number one guy there they can learn from.

 

I think Hextall is going to have his choice when it comes time for the expansion draft. You know there will be teams calling and there will be guys who will be forced into getting pennies on the dollar. The Flyers are sitting in a good spot.

[King Knut]

17 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

You can probably get both for pennies on the dollar. One of the things the Flyers are going to have a lot of this summer is cap space. You can bet teams like Boston, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay will be calling. I could very easily see Hextall picking up a Fleury or Rask or BIshop, especially if there's an asset that's attached along with it. For instance, if Pittsburgh is willing to eat salary and add a prospect like Tristan Jarry, I see Hextall doing it. With Boston, if they eat some of Rask's salary and include a guy like Jacob Forsbacka-Karlsson, then I see Hextall doing it. With Tampa Bay, I doubt Yzerman eats money, but if he can move Bishop and add a guy like Matthew Spencer, then Hextall will do it.

 

I konw there's hesitation with adding a guy like Rask, but he's only 29 and by the time he finishes his contract, you're looking at a 35 year old, which really isn't old with regards to goaltenders. On top of it, Rask has a career .926 save percentage, which is a good indicator of what kind of goaltender he is. You can't go wrong with that. He's also a guy who can help groom the next goaltender, so say if the Flyers decice they go with Sandstrom or Hart, they've got that legitimate number one guy there they can learn from.

 

I think Hextall is going to have his choice when it comes time for the expansion draft. You know there will be teams calling and there will be guys who will be forced into getting pennies on the dollar. The Flyers are sitting in a good spot.

 

I tend to agree with this.  It's all on the table.

 

For Boston with Rask, for the same reasons you mention not needing to hesitate, I expect they'd sooner trade away Subban for a pick than give up a prospect.  Rask isn't legendary, but he's pretty good, he has a cup and as you say being stuck with him until he's 35 isn't the most daunting thing in the world.  They gave him the deal after all.  

 

The Penguins however, I could see itching to make a deal.  I doubt they're eager to do it with the Flyers, but you never know.  They're in a tight spot with this NMC.  The biggest problems with both Rask and Fleury are: A) They're conference/divisional rivals.  B) The whole thing is even an issue because they both have NMC's and would therefore have to waive in order to be traded anywhere.  Maybe Fleury is more inclined so he doesn't have to move across the continent?  Who knows.  It'll be fun to find out.

 

Tampa just needs a goalie to legally protect.  Bishop is UFA.  Yzerman won't be offering any "deals" for him other than maybe taking Neuvy (with an extension)  or Stolarz with the intention of exposing him. Trading for Bishop won't do the Flyers any good unless they really look poised to make a run and Mason/Neuvy is hurt at the deadline.  In any event, Yzerman (despite his good standing with Hextall) doesn't seem likely to give us a sweetheart deal to take away Bishop.

[AJgoal]

A few things here. Fluery's NMC is limited, meaning he has to provide a list of teams he's willing to move to. Flyers would still have to be on it, of course. And I doubt Fluery is moving to Philly for pennies on the dollar. Pittsburgh would give up a draft pick to move him just about anywhere else.

 

Tampa has Gudlevkis whom they can expose, so they don't need to acquire a goalie. 

 

And Rask has a Cup ring as a backup who didn't play a single minute in those playoffs.

 

 

[King Knut]

To continue this, here's a list of teams that may strongly be desiring to trade a goaltender because either they can't expose the ones they have due to NMC's or they won't want to expose and lose one to the expansion draft.

 

Boston:  Rask (NMC) & Subban (could be forced to be exposed).

Chicago: Crawford (NTC of unspecified restrictions) & Scott Darling (could be forced to be exposed).

Columbus:  Bob (NMC-but they're probably happy to protect him as even though he makes almost 8 million, his contract is up in three years).

Rangers:  Lundqvist is NMC, so they might be interested in dealing Raanta rather than lose him for nothing.  Raanta would be a pretty good pick for your 2nd expansion draft goalie IMHO.  

Penguins:  Fleury (NMC and I expect they'll try desperately to deal him) & Murray (could be a trade prospect if Fleury refuses a deal).

 

Apparently the NHL does not plan to honor NTC's or modified NMC's which seems unfair to me, but there you go.  They do what they want.

 

Seeing it laid out like this now, I frankly see other NHL teams more likely to make plays for these goalies than the Flyers. 

If I'm Hextall, I'm taking calls from:

 

Chicago (Crawford at $6 million for three more years--and a UFA at the end of it--isn't a bad deal at all.  I'd expect Mason would be asking for something in that ballpark... They'll want to keep Darling at half a million and a UFA this season, and he's not quite the kind of situation the Flyers really want (similar to what we have) but he's pretty damn good and if they end up trading him for a prospect, Hextall can feel safe exposing Stolarz and seeing where things go.

 

The Rangers (Raanta for another year might just be the bridge they need though two would be ideal.  Frankly though, at a $1 million cap hit for next season, he could simply be the guy they sign in order to fulfill the requirements and protect Stolarz (if they want).

 

The Penguins (Fleury might be the perfect stop gap solution in but only if they Penguins are willing to give up another piece to save Murray.  Resigning Mason would probably cost at least 5.5 for 3 years and Fleury is only 5.7 for 2 years after this season.  Hopefully one of our prospects will have emerged by then).