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Raffl: Most Underrated Flyer? Discuss


Podein25

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  • hf101 changed the title to Raffl: Most Underrated Flyer? Discuss

Yeah, I'd say he's probably the most underrated. I think he does a lot of things very well. If he was a better finisher, I think he'd be a star. That's really the only knack on his game for me. He's great at possession play. He's solid defensively. He's fantastic on the forecheck. He just doesn't have that lethal shot or dynamic skill set to take him over the top.

 

That kind of makes him tough to measure though. He's playing as a top-line LW because he does so many things right, but the lack of finishing ability will always make people question whether he's truly a top six player. It's very possible he would be better suited in a shut down role.

 

Still, overall I'm happy he's in the O&B.

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Just now, elmatus said:

Yeah, I'd say he's probably the most underrated. I think he does a lot of things very well. If he was a better finisher, I think he'd be a star. That's really the only knack on his game for me. He's great at possession play. He's solid defensively. He's fantastic on the forecheck. He just doesn't have that lethal shot or dynamic skill set to take him over the top.

 

That kind of makes him tough to measure though. He's playing as a top-line LW because he does so many things right, but the lack of finishing ability will always make people question whether he's truly a top six player. It's very possible he would be better suited in a shut down role.

 

Still, overall I'm happy he's in the O&B.

 

I generally agree. I know there are people here who would put Raffl in the "Most Useless" category. I expect we will hear from them soon enough....

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I still remember getting into it with someone regarding Raffl.  His counter point was Tye McGinn was a better player.  No, really.....Tye McGinn.   Tye McGinn who's had 6 goals and 6 assists in the last 4 seasons, combined.  

 

Raffl may not a typical 1st line winger, and he may not even be 1st line talent.  But his talent was noticeable from his rookie year.  Decent size, good wheels, and a heavy shot.   

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I like him for what he brings to the team. His forecheck is tenacious and his puck control is elite. I agree with elmatus, if he could finish he would be a top tier player. 

 

I think he can create space to open things up for Giroux. I would like to see TK on a line with him and Giroux to see what can happen.

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I wouldn't say he is underrated... maybe under appreciated?  I know some people will get on him and say he's not a 1st line winger and hate the fact that he often plays on G's left side.  While he is not a true 1st line winger that is not his fault that by default he ends up getting that spot.  That is more of an indication of a team need that the Flyers have not been able to address via FA (lack of cap space) or through the draft (needing to bolster D as a priority).  The fact that Hakstol trusts him to play on G's wing would indicate that he is not underrated among the decision makers in the Flyers organization.

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8 minutes ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

The fact that Hakstol trusts him to play on G's wing would indicate that he is not underrated among the decision makers in the Flyers organization.

 

I agree he definitely is very appreciated by the bench. He's largely had that top line spot ever since we lost Hartsy. That says something. I took the initial question to be mostly directed at fans and what not.

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17 minutes ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

 

I wouldn't say he is underrated... maybe under appreciated?

 

 

Yeah, that's the better word. He was also one of our best forwards vs WSH in Round 1 last year. 

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1 hour ago, PhilsFanDrew said:

I wouldn't say he is underrated... maybe under appreciated?  I know some people will get on him and say he's not a 1st line winger and hate the fact that he often plays on G's left side.  While he is not a true 1st line winger that is not his fault that by default he ends up getting that spot.  That is more of an indication of a team need that the Flyers have not been able to address via FA (lack of cap space) or through the draft (needing to bolster D as a priority).  The fact that Hakstol trusts him to play on G's wing would indicate that he is not underrated among the decision makers in the Flyers organization.

 

 

 Let’s be honest, he’s not. Everything @elmatus said about his play is true, but dude is not a first liner. In that sense, it’s hard to call him underrated.

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37 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

In that sense, it’s hard to call him underrated.

 

Yeah I suppose. That's why "underappreciated" is maybe more fitting. He does do a lot of things well and is safe.

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3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah I suppose. That's why "underappreciated" is maybe more fitting. He does do a lot of things well and is safe.

 

I still want to see him on a line with Coots. I think the two of them would be ideal for a shutdown third line. The Flyers seem to want to put the both of them in the top 6 though.

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Just now, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

I still want to see him on a line with Coots. I think the two of them would be ideal for a shutdown third line. The Flyers seem to want to put the both of them in the top 6 though.

 

Agreed. As indicated by somebody above, circumstances forced those decisions, but I think that's the future. I really like the idea of Raffl with Coots

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If Raffl could play the right side, I'd love to see a third line of Raffl - Couturier - Leier. I honestly believe you could get 50 to 60 goals a year out of that line. Of course, that means having to find a center to fill in the second line spot......As for Raffl, I don't think he's underrated or underappreciated. I think he is what he is - a hard working guy who people respect because he never takes a shift off, but also realize he's limited to what he can do simply because he doesn't have the hands to match his play. There's been lots of guys like that in the NHL. Darrol Powe is another good example of that type of player.

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Remember Mikael Renberg? Raffl is the present day version. He is the least talented of the 3 between G, Jake and himself, but helps the line dominate and gel because of his ability and willingness to go to the net.

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1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

Remember Mikael Renberg? Raffl is the present day version. He is the least talented of the 3 between G, Jake and himself, but helps the line dominate and gel because of his ability and willingness to go to the net.

 

Mike Renberg suffered that severe sports hernia that sapped his core strength. From what I remember reading about it, his hernia was so bad that it twisted his abdomen muscles up to the point that there were circulatory issues. Even his groin muscles were adversely affected by the hernia. He played through so much pain that nobody stopped him and he took years off his career. I really hated that era where they questioned how tough a guy was by playing through pain. They should have treated Renberg as an investment and they tested him like a used up piece of meat. That's one thing that pissed me off about the era back then.  Thank God those guys are gone. 

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28 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Mike Renberg suffered that severe sports hernia that sapped his core strength. From what I remember reading about it, his hernia was so bad that it twisted his abdomen muscles up to the point that there were circulatory issues. Even his groin muscles were adversely affected by the hernia. He played through so much pain that nobody stopped him and he took years off his career. I really hated that era where they questioned how tough a guy was by playing through pain. They should have treated Renberg as an investment and they tested him like a used up piece of meat. That's one thing that pissed me off about the era back then.  Thank God those guys are gone. 

 

Isn't McCrossin still there though?

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5 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Isn't McCrossin still there though?

McCrossin gets blamed for a lot of things,  but he had no bearing on this.  He's the head trainer. It's the team doctors that wield all control in this matter. They should have pulled Renberg from the lineup and they didn't.  These were also the same doctors that allowed Dave Babych to pay on a broken foot when he really needed surgery. It's not the same team physicians anymore.

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19 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

McCrossin gets blamed for a lot of things,  but he had no bearing on this.  He's the head trainer. It's the team doctors that wield all control in this matter. They should have pulled Renberg from the lineup and they didn't.  These were also the same doctors that allowed Dave Babych to pay on a broken foot when he really needed surgery. It's not the same team physicians anymore.

 

 

Or let Lindros on a plane with a collapsed lung??

 

:5726ba4a2f0cc_nonono:

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23 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

McCrossin gets blamed for a lot of things,  but he had no bearing on this.  He's the head trainer. It's the team doctors that wield all control in this matter. They should have pulled Renberg from the lineup and they didn't.  These were also the same doctors that allowed Dave Babych to pay on a broken foot when he really needed surgery. It's not the same team physicians anymore.

 

Yeah fair enough, but McCrossin was part of that very culture. At the very least he was complicit. If he had spoken up, he'd have been gone. So yeah.

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10 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah fair enough, but McCrossin was part of that very culture. At the very least he was complicit. If he had spoken up, he'd have been gone. So yeah.

I blame Carl and Bonnie Lindros

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16 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

If Raffl could play the right side, I'd love to see a third line of Raffl - Couturier - Leier. I honestly believe you could get 50 to 60 goals a year out of that line. Of course, that means having to find a center to fill in the second line spot......As for Raffl, I don't think he's underrated or underappreciated. I think he is what he is - a hard working guy who people respect because he never takes a shift off, but also realize he's limited to what he can do simply because he doesn't have the hands to match his play. There's been lots of guys like that in the NHL. Darrol Powe is another good example of that type of player.

 

Swap Read for Leier and you got a deal.

 

I always liked Powe as well.

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18 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

Mike Renberg suffered that severe sports hernia that sapped his core strength. From what I remember reading about it, his hernia was so bad that it twisted his abdomen muscles up to the point that there were circulatory issues. Even his groin muscles were adversely affected by the hernia. He played through so much pain that nobody stopped him and he took years off his career. I really hated that era where they questioned how tough a guy was by playing through pain. They should have treated Renberg as an investment and they tested him like a used up piece of meat. That's one thing that pissed me off about the era back then.  Thank God those guys are gone. 

 

I totally agree.  It seemed to follow Renberg too.. I remember when the guy went to Toronto and had a cut on his hand that got so badly infected that they were literally working to prevent from having to amputate it.  Locker rooms breed a lot of nasty germs, but that's insane that it got to that point.  

 

For the Flyers, I also think it carried over to the simple idea of protecting their stars.  Yes, Lindros should have learned to skate with his head up, but that only accounts for the Stevens hit which was merely the final blow to a half a career of unreciprocated abuse. There were several (if not many) others over the years that skating with his head up would have had little affect on protecting him.

 

But the team expected him to "be a tough guy" when they should have been protecting their biggest asset and largest investment in franchise history.  It was asinine.  Kasparitus should have left the ice on a stretcher for instance (though the damage had been done by that point).  

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18 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah fair enough, but McCrossin was part of that very culture. At the very least he was complicit. If he had spoken up, he'd have been gone. So yeah.

 

18 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

McCrossin gets blamed for a lot of things,  but he had no bearing on this.  He's the head trainer. It's the team doctors that wield all control in this matter. They should have pulled Renberg from the lineup and they didn't.  These were also the same doctors that allowed Dave Babych to pay on a broken foot when he really needed surgery. It's not the same team physicians anymore.

 

The Trainer is the first line of defense.  It's his/her responsibility to keep an eye on these things.  They don't call a doctor unless it's something really obvious (or for concussion protocol--which even Hextall admits is pretty much ignored at this point).  It's the trainer's job to assess when a guy's probably hurt and if it's a potential injury that should be looked at by a doctor.  If a guy has a charlie horse vs. a quad pull, it's going to be the trainer who makes the initial assessment.  

 

If Team doctors assess a guy and say he's clear, then yeah, it's on them, but if they're never called it's on a combination of the player and McCrossin.  

 

Michael Leighton's back injury in the '10 finals comes to mind.  Leighton lied to the staff and said he was fine and McCrossin apparently didn't see anything funny about the way Leighton was playing.  

 

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29 minutes ago, King Knut said:

McCrossin apparently didn't see anything funny about the way Leighton was playing

 

You mean the kind of funny way he left his legs open so the puck could go in even from a near-impossible angle? That kind of funny?

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