Hak's obsession with Starting Mason?

[King Knut]

 

This is twice now that The Flyers have lost games when Hakstol started an obviously overworked / hurt Mason over Stolarz. 

In both contests it was blatant that Mason just wasn't fresh. 

 

I just don't get it. Stolarz hasn't been amazing, but he hasn't lost yet and he's been ok to decent in those wins. 

 

 Anyone got any ideas?

 

 

 

[Howie58]

I would have probably given the start to Stolarz as well.  I can't read Hakstol on this.

[PhilsFanDrew]

I didn't understand him starting Mason against NJ.  To me that was the perfect time to give Stolarz a start.  If Mason was deemed to be healthy I have no problem with Hakstol starting him last night.  He is their #1 goalie and should have the work load of a #1.  I don't think his early struggles last night were because he wasn't fresh but because he wasn't sharp.  

[canoli]

Losing in the SO last night had nothing to do with goaltending. 2 of Kesler's goals tap-ins, the result of defensive confusion - nothing Mason could do.

 

In the SO Mason played well. It's hard to win when you only score once out of 5 attempts.

 

I don't disagree - Stolarz should be getting more starts - but Mason looked fine last night.

 

 

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, canoli said:

Losing in the SO last night had nothing to do with goaltending. 2 of Kesler's goals tap-ins, the result of defensive confusion - nothing Mason could do.

 

In the SO Mason played well. It's hard to win when you only score once out of 5 attempts.

 

I don't disagree - Stolarz should be getting more starts - but Mason looked fine last night.

 

 

 

The third goal was terrible.  I love Mason and he's totally the number one and I'm not in some campaign to mak Stolarz the starter.  I have no idea if he's ever going to be that good.  Mason had to leave the last game with a injury which may or may not have had anything to do with the third goal but either way, it was awful and should never have gone in.  He made many other great saves that saved their bacon, but that one was incredibly soft. 

 

When you look at them in hindsight, to me, all three goals (and I agree the first two were more defensive breakdowns than Mason's fault) but all three goals did betray a degree of weakness with his stick hand IMHO.  Like I said, I don't blame him on the first two but he's gotta save the third.  

 

We we can talk about Voreck watching a slow pass go through his legs and whatever happened on the other goal all day.  We can also talk about 55 shots and only 3 goals, but I just don't know why you start a goalie who had to leave the last game with an injury when you don't have to. 

 

Maybe Hakstol wanted him to get back in the horse right a away from a mental standpoint.  I could buy that.  But Mason and Hakstol need to accept that there sr backups in this league for a reason.  If this team can make the playoffs, they'll need a sharp,healthy Mason. 

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm really starting to question Hakstol and his decisions.  This isn't college hockey and his personnel decisions seem to be very college like. He's running Mason into the ground.

[King Knut]

5 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm really starting to question Hakstol and his decisions.  This isn't college hockey and his personnel decisions seem to be very college like. He's running Mason into the ground.

 

For me it's mostly the Mason thing. His other experimentation or questionable movesmhave panned out.   Cousins shouldn't have been #2C.  That was borne out.  

 

I think Schultz deserves to play but totally concede why he isn't. 

 

Ive questioned a lot, but I get most of it. Playing Mason so much confounds me. We need him healthy and strong and sharp. It's a delicate balance to maintain but I feel like hak needs to ease off a tad. There was no need for mase to play all three of these games despite the quality of competition. 

[radoran]

39 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

For me it's mostly the Mason thing. His other experimentation or questionable movesmhave panned out.   Cousins shouldn't have been #2C.  That was borne out.  

 

I think Schultz deserves to play but totally concede why he isn't. 

 

Ive questioned a lot, but I get most of it. Playing Mason so much confounds me. We need him healthy and strong and sharp. It's a delicate balance to maintain but I feel like hak needs to ease off a tad. There was no need for mase to play all three of these games despite the quality of competition. 

 

I'll give him this - Hakstol didn't leave North Dakota to fail in the NHL. He's a coach that wants every point because that's the difference in the end.

 

Making the playoffs for your first two years in a row would be a nice calling card.

 

Having played one period the night before, he'd be fine if the wrist thing was just a minor thing (plus with stolarz playing well there was no need to risk mason against San Jose). 

 

Mason feels good, he goes. I get that.

 

I think the real question is what happens when neuvirth comes back? Is Mason Hakstol's clear cut #1? If so, he's got to get the majority of the starts - and not play real back to backs unless absolutely necessary.

 

And i think they will be well served to see what Mason can really do if handed the undoubted reins.

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

I'll give him this - Hakstol didn't leave North Dakota to fail in the NHL. He's a coach that wants every point because that's the difference in the end.

 

Making the playoffs for your first two years in a row would be a nice calling card.

 

Having played one period the night before, he'd be fine if the wrist thing was just a minor thing (plus with stolarz playing well there was no need to risk mason against San Jose). 

 

Mason feels good, he goes. I get that.

 

I think the real question is what happens when neuvirth comes back? Is Mason Hakstol's clear cut #1? If so, he's got to get the majority of the starts - and not play real back to backs unless absolutely necessary.

 

And i think they will be well served to see what Mason can really do if handed the undoubted reins.

 

 

I don't think there's any doubt Mason is the clear #1.  Neuvy wasn't playing great before he went down (neither was Mason for that matter).  I see no reason to change the plan with them until Mason/Neuvy proves the alt is necessary. 

 

Mason on doesn't do well with competition either.  Neuvy plays every third/fourth game or when the matchup calls for it. I'm 

[canoli]

On 1/2/2017 at 11:48 PM, radoran said:

And i think they will be well served to see what Mason can really do if handed the undoubted reins.

 

I think he's earned that. It does seem like Mason needs undivided support to play his best. I'd like to see him get that chance with the Flyers...as long as Hakstol doesn't Laviolette him into the ground - or Keenan him like a yo-yo. Mason has had his bouts of suckage no doubt but he's also stolen a ton of games for the Flyers. If he can't handle splitting time with another legit starter then I say lose that other starter and give Mason the reins. Hextall can get something/anything for Neuvirth at the TD.

 

Overplaying Mason may be the only flaw in Hakstol's approach so far. The jury is still out. Last spring he did have a reasonable alibi (Neuvirth hurt / Stolarz untested) but now that Stolarz has some wins under his belt that excuse doesn't cut it anymore.

 

 

[King Knut]

9 hours ago, canoli said:

 

I think he's earned that. It does seem like Mason needs undivided support to play his best. I'd like to see him get that chance with the Flyers...as long as Hakstol doesn't Laviolette him into the ground - or Keenan him like a yo-yo. Mason has had his bouts of suckage no doubt but he's also stolen a ton of games for the Flyers. If he can't handle splitting time with another legit starter then I say lose that other starter and give Mason the reins. Hextall can get something/anything for Neuvirth at the TD.

 

Overplaying Mason may be the only flaw in Hakstol's approach so far. The jury is still out. Last spring he did have a reasonable alibi (Neuvirth hurt / Stolarz untested) but now that Stolarz has some wins under his belt that excuse doesn't cut it anymore.

 

Sitting Ghost seemed to work.  He's been better.

Sitting MDZ back and forth seems to work very briefly, then he's off in la la land again after a game or so.

Sitting Konecny confuses me still.  He got a goal when he came back, but you don't sit a guy because he's not scoring goals and the team got shut out 2-0 in the game he sat and looked decidedly anemic without him on offense.

 

A lot of people are on his case about giving MacDonald first line minutes, but it was working fine for a lot of games.  They didn't start losing until Streit went down. Rumor is Gudas is nursing something or he might be getting those 20+ minutes with Provo on the first pairing, but ultimately, I think Hakstol is comfortable playing Mac.

 

I don't overly agree with him, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on many things.  Not playing Stolarz against New Jersey and Anaheim are the big ones and it might have cost us 3 points (though admittedly the whole team looked god awful in the Jersey game... they were all gassed (so maybe take the opportunity to play the ONE guy on the team who hadn't played 18 hours earlier?).

 

I think at this point they have the historical evidence to know that Mason thrives with the confidence of knowing he's the number one guy and that Neuwirth is simply too prone to injury to be trusted in a true #1 role.  Before he got hurt, Neither Neuwirth or Mason was playing terribly well.  I don't see any reason to assume Neuvy will be better than he was before he got hurt.  SO As I see it, Mason is your #1, but Neuwirth HAS to get more regular fill in spots than Stolarz did.  If not only for his own sharpness, then also for Mason's durability.  

 

As an aside, Stolarz's numbers alone merit him getting more minutes.  It was limited showing and not against top competition, but he simply played well and the team played well in front of him--which frankly is more important than anything.  

 

I'd rather have a merely decent goalie that the team plays extremely well in front of than an amazing goalie that the team plays crappily in front of.  

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-flyers/steve-mason-showing-signs-fatigue-after-playing-25-last-27-games

 

Hakstol is making it easy for people to turn against him. Starts Mason 25 of the last 27 games, almost one third of a season, yet when people say Mason is looking fatigued, the dumb ass denies it. Seriously Hextall, fire this son of a bitch. Hitchcock rode Niittymaki this hard and Nitty's hips couldn't hold up afterwards. Don't make Mason a Nittymaki because the coach feels 'unsure' about whether the back up can or can't win games. This is a man's livelihood that Hakstol is messing with. Fire him before he ruins someone.....

[NRH]

That or it's Mason asking for the starts and Stolarz not competing for them, if the kid doesn't want to start the game why would the coach have confidence in him?

 

At any point Mason could pick up the phone and say "Hey look this workload is wearing me too thin, give the kid a few starts"

 

You guys seem to think that Hakstol is just ignoring Mason's cries for someone to save him from starting all these games in a row. It's like you think he is some peewee league child being shoved out onto the ice by his coach and parents for the 30th time that month.

[King Knut]

15 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-flyers/steve-mason-showing-signs-fatigue-after-playing-25-last-27-games

 

Hakstol is making it easy for people to turn against him. Starts Mason 25 of the last 27 games, almost one third of a season, yet when people say Mason is looking fatigued, the dumb ass denies it. Seriously Hextall, fire this son of a bitch. Hitchcock rode Niittymaki this hard and Nitty's hips couldn't hold up afterwards. Don't make Mason a Nittymaki because the coach feels 'unsure' about whether the back up can or can't win games. This is a man's livelihood that Hakstol is messing with. Fire him before he ruins someone.....

 

Berube rode him this hard too and it ended up getting Reese fired.   That's still the moment I think Hextall handled most poorly.  

 

Stolarz should have played against New Jersey and Anaheim.  There's not just question.  They got killed in one of those games and got a point in the other.  How much worse would it have been if the rookie (who has never lost and who has amazing numbers -albeit against second tier teams) would have gotten the start?  

 

Hakstol saying Mason isn't fatigued has got to be a smoke screen.  Hakstol is used to coaching teams that play a total of 34 regular season games a year.  In Hakstol's world, the season is over now.  What the hell does he know about the fatigue level of an NHL goalie?

 

I'm not saying fire him... but Hextall needs to have a conversation or two with him about this crap.  For a guy who mixes things up too much on the rest of the ice, he simply doesn't mix things up enough in the crease.

[King Knut]

12 hours ago, NRH said:

That or it's Mason asking for the starts and Stolarz not competing for them, if the kid doesn't want to start the game why would the coach have confidence in him?

 

At any point Mason could pick up the phone and say "Hey look this workload is wearing me too thin, give the kid a few starts"

 

You guys seem to think that Hakstol is just ignoring Mason's cries for someone to save him from starting all these games in a row. It's like you think he is some peewee league child being shoved out onto the ice by his coach and parents for the 30th time that month.

 

Do you really think Stolarz is asking not to be started?  He's a rookie.  He's going to question the coach and say, "Yo, put me in coach!  Mason needs a break!"  That's what got Boucher shipped to Phoenix 14 years ago.

 

I don't think Hakstol is ignoring Mason's cries.  I don't think Mason's crying about it at all.  I'M CRYING ABOUT IT.  It's part of the coaches job to know when to rest his goalie.  Mason's a pro and a competitor.  He's going to want to start as much as he can.  Even if he knows he's exhausted he's going to be ready to answer the call.  Up until the point that he KNOWS he's too tired or too injured to play well enough (like he did during Berube's second season) to help his team.

 

But mason's damaged stick hand was borderline.  It wasn't terrible and it probably felt like he could work through it.  But it clearly slowed him down a bit in the Anaheim game.

 

And in both the Anaheim game and the Rangers game, Mason's focus was just off.  He just wasn't sharp.  He was watching the players more than the puck, he drifted too far from his cage and his legs were just slow and he was slopping closing his knees.  Goaltending is an incredibly mental position.  You need to be acutely focused and sharp and that's as much a part of the fatigue as anything.  A player isn't going to detect that.  he's not going to say, "You, coach, i'm not feeling it tonight, you'd better play the rookie."  

 

It's the coaches job to say, "yo, Mase... I want you sharp for the Rangers game.  I'm playing the rookie against the Ducks." or "Yo, Mase, you just played a long one last night and YOU'VE NEVER BEATEN THE DEVILS.  Let's let the rookie play against them."

 

I'm not crying for mason either, I'm crying for the team.  I could give a rat's ass if Mason's tired. I'm not trying to "save him", I'm worried about winning games.   If it was Neil Little backing up Mason this past stretch, I'd probably be saying, "It's too bad, but yeah Mason has to make all these starts."  I'm thinking of the team and of winning and Stolarz was not playing poorly.  There was no reason to think the team was inherent danger of losing those games if they played Stolarz... They lost them anyway playing Mason, so what the hell would the difference have been?

 

Mason is letting in WEAK ASS GOALS and the team is losing games they maybe don't need to.  And I think he's doing it because he's a little hurt and he's more than a little fatigued.  

 

 

[NRH]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Do you really think Stolarz is asking not to be started?  He's a rookie.  He's going to question the coach and say, "Yo, put me in coach!  Mason needs a break!"  That's what got Boucher shipped to Phoenix 14 years ago.

 

I don't think Hakstol is ignoring Mason's cries.  I don't think Mason's crying about it at all.  I'M CRYING ABOUT IT.  It's part of the coaches job to know when to rest his goalie.  Mason's a pro and a competitor.  He's going to want to start as much as he can.  Even if he knows he's exhausted he's going to be ready to answer the call.  Up until the point that he KNOWS he's too tired or too injured to play well enough (like he did during Berube's second season) to help his team.

 

But mason's damaged stick hand was borderline.  It wasn't terrible and it probably felt like he could work through it.  But it clearly slowed him down a bit in the Anaheim game.

 

And in both the Anaheim game and the Rangers game, Mason's focus was just off.  He just wasn't sharp.  He was watching the players more than the puck, he drifted too far from his cage and his legs were just slow and he was slopping closing his knees.  Goaltending is an incredibly mental position.  You need to be acutely focused and sharp and that's as much a part of the fatigue as anything.  A player isn't going to detect that.  he's not going to say, "You, coach, i'm not feeling it tonight, you'd better play the rookie."  

 

It's the coaches job to say, "yo, Mase... I want you sharp for the Rangers game.  I'm playing the rookie against the Ducks." or "Yo, Mase, you just played a long one last night and YOU'VE NEVER BEATEN THE DEVILS.  Let's let the rookie play against them."

 

I'm not crying for mason either, I'm crying for the team.  I could give a rat's ass if Mason's tired. I'm not trying to "save him", I'm worried about winning games.   If it was Neil Little backing up Mason this past stretch, I'd probably be saying, "It's too bad, but yeah Mason has to make all these starts."  I'm thinking of the team and of winning and Stolarz was not playing poorly.  There was no reason to think the team was inherent danger of losing those games if they played Stolarz... They lost them anyway playing Mason, so what the hell would the difference have been?

 

Mason is letting in WEAK ASS GOALS and the team is losing games they maybe don't need to.  And I think he's doing it because he's a little hurt and he's more than a little fatigued.  

 

 

 

It's more likely he's not asking to start and Mason is.

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, NRH said:

 

It's more likely he's not asking to start and Mason is.

 

If that's what's doing it then Hakstol really just is a bad coach. 

[OccamsRazor]

59 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

If that's what's doing it then Hakstol really just is a bad coach. 

 

 

And neither of these guys are whiners take me out guys they are team players and competitive as hell. 

 

Both want to start but Stolarz is going to do what the coach wants.

 

So it on the coach to recognize when his starter needs rest. 

[peter puck]

Where's the goalie coach? He should know his tender. If Mason is overworked he should know it and be telling Hakstol time for a rest. Hakstol should know that Mason isn't going to ask for a day off and should be relying on what coach is saying.