BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 It's been reported that the St.Louis Blues have been scouting Flyers games for the past two months. If that's the case, I'm suspecting that it has to do with Kevin Shattenkirk. I posted on HF Boards what I would deal for Shattenkirk and it came to a consensus that any package would need to start with Brayden Schenn and then add in a piece like Robert Hagg and top it off with a first. If that's the case, would you do the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I'd rather use resources to get a guy who would fill a hole they have had awhile now. I want a LW like Landeskog...let discuss a guy like him. Flyers have Dmen prospect who will maybe given a shot next preseason...a long hard look then. Flyers have no forward on the farm of Landeskog's caliber... ...my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I think that's more than fair value-wise. But his contract is up after this season and I've heard he wants to get paid. And we're trying to make room for defencemen (cheap ELC defecemen) as it is, and are lacking at the forward position. Doesn't make much sense to trade a weakness for a strength. Though, again, i think we're getting the better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I really think the defense is something we half to wait on. I think we let the defense play out as is and let the kids come up when there ready and replace the current players that are on the team. If the Flyers where to make any trades I would rather they trade for offense, much needed offense. Especially 5 on 5, if we can unload Schenn and Coots plus a d prospect like Hagg for better offensive player then I am all for it. I would love to somehow land a guy like Anthony Mantha from the Wings but they would be stupid too let him go. He is however exactly what we need, a big scoring winger... In addition I would like to land an actual 2nd line Center. A real 2nd line center that can score and support the top unit and not bring down the production of his line mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I think that's more than fair value-wise. But his contract is up after this season and I've heard he wants to get paid. And we're trying to make room for defencemen (cheap ELC defecemen) as it is, and are lacking at the forward position. Doesn't make much sense to trade a weakness for a strength. Though, again, i think we're getting the better player. So would you be interested in a 24 LW that goes by the name of Landeskog?? Just garnering interest....he would look good with G and Jake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I agree with @OccamsRazor. Hextall needs to start focusing on the forwards. They need a young sniper/finisher!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I'd rather use resources to get a guy who would fill a hole they have had awhile now. I want a LW like Landeskog...let discuss a guy like him. Flyers have Dmen prospect who will maybe given a shot next preseason...a long hard look then. Flyers have no forward on the farm of Landeskog's caliber... ...my 2 cents. I like the idea of Landeskog, but Avalanche fans have a deluded notion that Landeskog should return Schenn + Sanheim and some don't feel that's even enough. I have zero interest in moving any of Sanheim, Gostisbehere, Provorov or Morin. Those four are untouchable as far as I'm concern. My reasoning for acquiring a guy like Shattenkirk would be that he'd have a Timonen-like influence on the group of young defenders and the Flyers are missing that type of veteran who can come in, play offense and defense, and do so in a manner that is rather calming. His influence on the younger guys would be invaluable. He could also spell a guy like Provorov, especially if Provorov is struggling. To me, the defense is going to need that veteran mentor and while I was hopeful that MDZ could have been that guy, he's shown he can't be that guy. I'd rather the Flyers start the purging of the defense now and let the young guys grow together and having a couple of solid veterans (Gudas, Shattenkirk) help mentor them along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I like the idea of Landeskog, but Avalanche fans have a deluded notion that Landeskog should return Schenn + Sanheim and some don't feel that's even enough. I have zero interest in moving any of Sanheim, Gostisbehere, Provorov or Morin. Those four are untouchable as far as I'm concern. My reasoning for acquiring a guy like Shattenkirk would be that he'd have a Timonen-like influence on the group of young defenders and the Flyers are missing that type of veteran who can come in, play offense and defense, and do so in a manner that is rather calming. His influence on the younger guys would be invaluable. He could also spell a guy like Provorov, especially if Provorov is struggling. To me, the defense is going to need that veteran mentor and while I was hopeful that MDZ could have been that guy, he's shown he can't be that guy. I'd rather the Flyers start the purging of the defense now and let the young guys grow together and having a couple of solid veterans (Gudas, Shattenkirk) help mentor them along the way. Well landing Shatty will block a Sanheim or Morin next year i think. I'm at the gym texting between sets so i have to look at Shatty contract and all before i say further. I would move Schenn, Hagg and even Laughton and a pick for Landeskog but not Sanheim or the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I think that's more than fair value-wise. But his contract is up after this season and I've heard he wants to get paid. And we're trying to make room for defencemen (cheap ELC defecemen) as it is, and are lacking at the forward position. Doesn't make much sense to trade a weakness for a strength. Though, again, i think we're getting the better player. I get where you're coming from, at the same time, having a legitimate veteran back on the blue line that can help the kids is invaluable. I think Shattenkirk could be a Timonen-type of defender here and be a leader that the kids can lean on when they're going through their learning curve. As for wanting to get 'paid', I think Shattenkirk could easily get a 7 year deal at 6.5 a year and that would still allow him to get one more good contract in. After all, Timonen got his big deal when he turned 32, so Shattenkirk could still complete that deal at 35 and still have some serious value. I get the need for more offense though. I'm also of the opinion that the kids coming along (Aube-Kubel, Laberge, Allison, Vorobyov, Rubstov, etc...) are going to be able to provide that offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well is Shatty will block a Sanheim or Morin next year i think. I'm at the gym texting between sets so i have to look at Shatty contract and all before i say further. I would move Schenn, Hagg and even Laughton and a pick for Landeskog but not Sanheim or the others. Shatty won't block Sanheim or Morin next year. If anything, the acquisition of Shattenkirk would mean the Flyers can jettison Manning, Schultz, Streit and MDZ and you'd have something like this: Provorov - Gudas Morin - Gostisbehere Sanheim - Shattenkirk That's an incredible group of six that I think could be extremely successful and having two great mentors in Gudas and Shattenkirk. As well, as an opposing coach, you have to ask "who's the first pairing defenders" as any of those three pairs have top pairing upside. That's ridiculous and incredible depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I get where you're coming from, at the same time, having a legitimate veteran back on the blue line that can help the kids is invaluable. I think Shattenkirk could be a Timonen-type of defender here and be a leader that the kids can lean on when they're going through their learning curve. As for wanting to get 'paid', I think Shattenkirk could easily get a 7 year deal at 6.5 a year and that would still allow him to get one more good contract in. After all, Timonen got his big deal when he turned 32, so Shattenkirk could still complete that deal at 35 and still have some serious value. I get the need for more offense though. I'm also of the opinion that the kids coming along (Aube-Kubel, Laberge, Allison, Vorobyov, Rubstov, etc...) are going to be able to provide that offense. All thise forwards with the exception of AK are 4 years away though. They need help at forward now. More on the wing than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 minute ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Shatty won't block Sanheim or Morin next year. If anything, the acquisition of Shattenkirk would mean the Flyers can jettison Manning, Schultz, Streit and MDZ and you'd have something like this: Provorov - Gudas Morin - Gostisbehere Sanheim - Shattenkirk That's an incredible group of six that I think could be extremely successful and having two great mentors in Gudas and Shattenkirk. As well, as an opposing coach, you have to ask "who's the first pairing defenders" as any of those three pairs have top pairing upside. That's ridiculous and incredible depth. Well when you put it that way then the only thing i would need to know is for how much and how long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I think Shatty goes back to the Avs who need blueline help bad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I completely get the wanting to go LW instead of Shatty. I'm not sure Landeskog would be my target, but in the absence of my having a better name, okay. He's having a miserable year, but so is that team. His numbers previously are in line with what we need. But @BobbyClarkeFan16 makes an interesting point about leadership on the back end. He's only 27 and arguably entering his prime, so he'd look awfully good back there with the pairings he posted. For the sake of argument, I'd want some kind of assurance he's staying here past this year before I make the trade. Streit's cap hit is $1M more than Shatty's. Arguably, you could go to a $6M cap hit (Shatty goes up from $4.25 to $6 while Streit's $5.25M goes off the books). It's a decent raise for Shatty while not being a huge anchor for the Flyers. And the return, to my mind, is way better than the $750K difference in money that Shatty vs. Streit would be. Even if you went $6.5M it's not a huge leap that I don't think straps the team when you subtract Nick Schultz's $2.25M. Plus whatever you're moving out to get Shatty to begin with. So, on that end of things, sign me up. My only concern is the pieces you'd use to get Shatty might be better used on the LW need. Because, say you move out Schenn in the deal plus Hagg and a draft pick. That should get you one hell of a LWer. And you still need a #2 center (Newsflash: Coots ain't it). And you may still need to fork out some dough in goal. I like the LWer idea, but the Shatty thing could be one hell of an embarrassment of riches on D to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Ok...I want nothing to do with a guy you're going to call "Shatty"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 36 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Well when you put it that way then the only thing i would need to know is for how much and how long? I'd do 7 years at $6.5 million per year. That's $45.5 over the course of the contract and that means Shattenkirk is a free agent again at 35. I'll be honest, if the Flyers make a run at Shattenkirk, I'd love to see the deal become a huge blockbuster. Call me insane, but from the Flyers stand point, I'd do the following: To Philadelphia: Kevin Shattenkirk, Patrik Berglund, Alex Steen, St. Louis 1st Round Pick in 2017 To St. Louis: Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Robert Hagg, Scott Laughton, Patrick Laberge, Philadelphia's 2nd round pick I know the addition of Simmonds really throws things off, but then I'd do the following to the lines: Raffl - Giroux - Voracek Steen - Couturier - Konecny Cousins - Berglund - Weise Lyubimov - Bellemare - Read Of course, you can flip Raffl and Steen and then you can move a guy like MDZ for a draft pick, move Streit for salary relief, move Schultz for a draft pick as well and then dump McDonald to Lehigh Valley. I get that it's crazy, but I really think St. Louis is at the point where they're going to start a rebuild and while they get a beauty in Simmonds and a good winger in Schenn, they also add some real good young pieces. The Flyers get that left winger for Giroux in Steen, they get a legitimate third line center in Berglund, they get that lead defenseman in Shattenkirk and they get an extra first out of the deal that can be moved for additional picks. I think it's a solid trade. The Flyers aren't winning anything anytime soon, but they certainly get some nice pieces out of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 So you trade S 11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I'd do 7 years at $6.5 million per year. That's $45.5 over the course of the contract and that means Shattenkirk is a free agent again at 35. I'll be honest, if the Flyers make a run at Shattenkirk, I'd love to see the deal become a huge blockbuster. Call me insane, but from the Flyers stand point, I'd do the following: To Philadelphia: Kevin Shattenkirk, Patrik Berglund, Alex Steen, St. Louis 1st Round Pick in 2017 To St. Louis: Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Robert Hagg, Scott Laughton, Patrick Laberge, Philadelphia's 2nd round pick I know the addition of Simmonds really throws things off, but then I'd do the following to the lines: Raffl - Giroux - Voracek Steen - Couturier - Konecny Cousins - Berglund - Weise Lyubimov - Bellemare - Read Of course, you can flip Raffl and Steen and then you can move a guy like MDZ for a draft pick, move Streit for salary relief, move Schultz for a draft pick as well and then dump McDonald to Lehigh Valley. I get that it's crazy, but I really think St. Louis is at the point where they're going to start a rebuild and while they get a beauty in Simmonds and a good winger in Schenn, they also add some real good young pieces. The Flyers get that left winger for Giroux in Steen, they get a legitimate third line center in Berglund, they get that lead defenseman in Shattenkirk and they get an extra first out of the deal that can be moved for additional picks. I think it's a solid trade. The Flyers aren't winning anything anytime soon, but they certainly get some nice pieces out of the deal. So you trade Simmonds one of our best and toughest players and our only net front presence and make this team even smaller then it is now??? We need a 2nd line center who can put up points not two centers who can't score to save there lives who do not use there size to their advantage in Coots and Berglund. No thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I'd do 7 years at $6.5 million per year. That's $45.5 over the course of the contract and that means Shattenkirk is a free agent again at 35. I'll be honest, if the Flyers make a run at Shattenkirk, I'd love to see the deal become a huge blockbuster. Call me insane, but from the Flyers stand point, I'd do the following: To Philadelphia: Kevin Shattenkirk, Patrik Berglund, Alex Steen, St. Louis 1st Round Pick in 2017 To St. Louis: Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds, Robert Hagg, Scott Laughton, Patrick Laberge, Philadelphia's 2nd round pick I know the addition of Simmonds really throws things off, but then I'd do the following to the lines: Raffl - Giroux - Voracek Steen - Couturier - Konecny Cousins - Berglund - Weise Lyubimov - Bellemare - Read Of course, you can flip Raffl and Steen and then you can move a guy like MDZ for a draft pick, move Streit for salary relief, move Schultz for a draft pick as well and then dump McDonald to Lehigh Valley. I get that it's crazy, but I really think St. Louis is at the point where they're going to start a rebuild and while they get a beauty in Simmonds and a good winger in Schenn, they also add some real good young pieces. The Flyers get that left winger for Giroux in Steen, they get a legitimate third line center in Berglund, they get that lead defenseman in Shattenkirk and they get an extra first out of the deal that can be moved for additional picks. I think it's a solid trade. The Flyers aren't winning anything anytime soon, but they certainly get some nice pieces out of the deal. I'm not doing Steen. He's on the downswing and the slope is steep. He's 20 minutes from breaking down. No way I include Simmonds in a deal involving Steen. And I don't include him at all, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Philly29 said: So you trade S So you trade Simmonds one of our best and toughest players and our only net front presence and make this team even smaller then it is now??? We need a 2nd line center who can put up points not two centers who can't score to save there lives who do not use there size to their advantage in Coots and Berglund. No thanks... Yeah, I was game until the Simmonds & Steen part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Yeah, I was game until the Simmonds & Steen part. That and the Patrick Laberge part also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheslot Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Stand Pat . Hold...em . Lw. idea could work . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 5 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Shatty won't block Sanheim or Morin next year. If anything, the acquisition of Shattenkirk would mean the Flyers can jettison Manning, Schultz, Streit and MDZ and you'd have something like this: Provorov - Gudas Morin - Gostisbehere Sanheim - Shattenkirk That's an incredible group of six that I think could be extremely successful and having two great mentors in Gudas and Shattenkirk. As well, as an opposing coach, you have to ask "who's the first pairing defenders" as any of those three pairs have top pairing upside. That's ridiculous and incredible depth. Although I disagree with your trade scenario I do however like the point you made there about the defense and how it would look like and how having Shatty and Gudas would be good for the younglings. Only if we could go about it a different way without trading Simmonds and Laberge etc. to get Shatty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 5 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Provorov - Gudas Morin - Gostisbehere Sanheim - Shattenkirk I know this is a pipe dream so i will play... ...no way him 6mill and put him on the bottom pair...no way!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckMeister Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 While we are dreaming, why not contact the Avs for Duchene and Landeskog for Mason, Schenn, McDonald, and Del Zotto. We wind up with a center and LW, bring up Stolie the Goalie and Sanheim. You could substitute Schultz or Streit then bring up Brennan. Just my dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, PuckMeister said: Just my dream. Yep. I won't wake you. Just let me know if we win the Cup....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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