arson squad in net adds new/old member

[yave1964]

The arson squad in net for the Jets just got larger, As Michael Hutchison has dropped five straight decisions and saw his save percentage drop below 9, as official starter Connor Hellebuyck getting yanked in each of his last 2 starts and giving up 3 goals or more in 8 of hi slast 12, the Jets went back to their past recalling former long time disappointment Ondrej Pavelec.

 

 Pavelec has been mediocre at best in the AHL with a 2.78 goals against and an underwhelming 8-7-2 record but something has to give. This may be coach Paul Maurice final bullet before he is shown the door, Pavelec saved their season a couple of years ago with a late season hot streak to help them sneak into the playoffs, the Jets are not exactly out of it right nowbut to get back into things something had to be done.

 

 As of yet no word on if they are gonna run with all three or if Hellebuyck will get shipped to get a few starts to work on his confidence or if Hutch will be waived down to Manitoba.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Let's put a dirty band aid on a bullet wound shall we?

 

The Jets need DEFENSE and perhaps a coaching change.

[J0e Th0rnton]

23 hours ago, yave1964 said:

The arson squad in net for the Jets just got larger, As Michael Hutchison has dropped five straight decisions and saw his save percentage drop below 9, as official starter Connor Hellebuyck getting yanked in each of his last 2 starts and giving up 3 goals or more in 8 of hi slast 12, the Jets went back to their past recalling former long time disappointment Ondrej Pavelec.

 

 Pavelec has been mediocre at best in the AHL with a 2.78 goals against and an underwhelming 8-7-2 record but something has to give. This may be coach Paul Maurice final bullet before he is shown the door, Pavelec saved their season a couple of years ago with a late season hot streak to help them sneak into the playoffs, the Jets are not exactly out of it right nowbut to get back into things something had to be done.

 

 As of yet no word on if they are gonna run with all three or if Hellebuyck will get shipped to get a few starts to work on his confidence or if Hutch will be waived down to Manitoba.

They can't send any of them down without them passing through waivers. So they put Chiarot on IR and recalled Pavelec. Since Pav is a UFA, they need Hutch to expose a goalie to expansion so they can't chance sending him down either.

[yave1964]

@J0e Th0rnton

The Jets, man they have individual talent all over the place but something is absolutely missing. Maurice has not helped them create a sense of cohesion.

 

 A hard clinical look at the team shows a brilliant top line, a solid middle six, a capable 4th line, so IMHO the forwards are not a problem. They do not with the exception of a few such as Lowry, Copp, Stafford and Perreault do a very good job of back checking however, they seem to hang back waiting to get sprung back into offense on transition.

 

 And that is the problem, the defense is simply not built for that. Buff God love him is a forward trapped in a d-man role, I understand the desire to have a guy like that play 25 minutes a night and to help join the rush but they have him partnered most nights with Trouba whom I love long term but who is inexperienced and when Buff gets caught up ice which is sadly too often Trouba or whoever gets trapped all alone because God knows the forwards aren't coming back to help. The rest of the defense, Enstrom is not a bust necessarily but he isn't very good either, Morrisey is raw and wants to join the rush and as of yet has not proven to be responsible in his own zone although he appears to have tremendous upside he has a long way to go, and the third pair is a couple of AHLers playing in the NHL out of necessity. Bogosian is rumored to be in there somewhere but like Enstrom he is more shadow than actual substance. So the problem in net goes way beyond the trio they have been playing.

 

   So if I ran the Jets I would:

 

1) fire Maurice. He is not the answer. He does not seem to understand the question.

2) Trade Ehlers for a solid true top pair shut down defenseman. YES I know Ehlers has massive upside but they have forwards and he has been passed by Laine and Connor is going to be a damn good one. Ehlers has the most trade value of anyone I would consider moving. You are not moving Scheifele or Laine, Wheeler wont get you what the team needs, in order to fix this club hard decisions have to be made and Ehlers gets a great return. In order to fix the defense something drastic would have to be done. Not a panic move just a smart move for a solid top pair defender.

3) Move Buff back to forward in the middle six. Still use him on the first power play, but put him on the wing and quit messing with him. He simply is not a top pair defenseman.

4) reinstall Hellboy in net and tell him that win or lose it is his goal and quit yanking him after a bad game or two. Last week he had a brilliant shutout on Monday followed by two bad games and suddenly he is on the bench, let him work through his problems and get straightened out like the ducks did with Gibson and like the Leafs did with Andersen rather than having him look over his shoulder whenever a goal goes in.

 

 This team has talent they need cohesion and a top pair defender and I believe in the weakened Western conference that they could easily contend at the worst for a wildcard.

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

2 hours ago, yave1964 said:

@J0e Th0rnton

The Jets, man they have individual talent all over the place but something is absolutely missing. Maurice has not helped them create a sense of cohesion.

 

 A hard clinical look at the team shows a brilliant top line, a solid middle six, a capable 4th line, so IMHO the forwards are not a problem. They do not with the exception of a few such as Lowry, Copp, Stafford and Perreault do a very good job of back checking however, they seem to hang back waiting to get sprung back into offense on transition.

 

 And that is the problem, the defense is simply not built for that. Buff God love him is a forward trapped in a d-man role, I understand the desire to have a guy like that play 25 minutes a night and to help join the rush but they have him partnered most nights with Trouba whom I love long term but who is inexperienced and when Buff gets caught up ice which is sadly too often Trouba or whoever gets trapped all alone because God knows the forwards aren't coming back to help. The rest of the defense, Enstrom is not a bust necessarily but he isn't very good either, Morrisey is raw and wants to join the rush and as of yet has not proven to be responsible in his own zone although he appears to have tremendous upside he has a long way to go, and the third pair is a couple of AHLers playing in the NHL out of necessity. Bogosian is rumored to be in there somewhere but like Enstrom he is more shadow than actual substance. So the problem in net goes way beyond the trio they have been playing.

 

   So if I ran the Jets I would:

 

1) fire Maurice. He is not the answer. He does not seem to understand the question.

2) Trade Ehlers for a solid true top pair shut down defenseman. YES I know Ehlers has massive upside but they have forwards and he has been passed by Laine and Connor is going to be a damn good one. Ehlers has the most trade value of anyone I would consider moving. You are not moving Scheifele or Laine, Wheeler wont get you what the team needs, in order to fix this club hard decisions have to be made and Ehlers gets a great return. In order to fix the defense something drastic would have to be done. Not a panic move just a smart move for a solid top pair defender.

3) Move Buff back to forward in the middle six. Still use him on the first power play, but put him on the wing and quit messing with him. He simply is not a top pair defenseman.

4) reinstall Hellboy in net and tell him that win or lose it is his goal and quit yanking him after a bad game or two. Last week he had a brilliant shutout on Monday followed by two bad games and suddenly he is on the bench, let him work through his problems and get straightened out like the ducks did with Gibson and like the Leafs did with Andersen rather than having him look over his shoulder whenever a goal goes in.

 

 This team has talent they need cohesion and a top pair defender and I believe in the weakened Western conference that they could easily contend at the worst for a wildcard.

 

Find me a draft exempt top 2 shutdown defenseman worth Ehlers. Never does a shutdown guy command an Ehlers level player. It would have to be a universal top defenseman(good offensively and defensively franchise level or close) and they would have to take Enstrom in the deal.

 

It has not escaped most jet fans notice that Ehlers has been the guy driving offense most nights while playing responsible defense. And when I say driving, I mean Moreso than Laine or Scheifele. So I doubt it has escaped managements notice. I know that might seem like me putting my moosehead guy over a little too strong, but go read the Jets gameday threads and the fans thoughts seem to acknowledge Ehlers is the Jets best player this year. And he is only 20, getting better and better.

 

The Jets are in a bad spot for the expansion draft. They are not going to make it worse by trading a draft Exempt superstar player like Ehlers. Right now Buff and Enstrom both have NMC's and Must waste a protection spot. So Trouba and Myers? They need to protect 8 Skaters or kiss one bye bye.

 

If they protect 4 Dmen, then the 4 forwards they protect are Scheifele, Little, Wheeler and................Uh oh. Armia, Dano or Perreault?

 

If anyone gets traded for something valuable, its Wheeler. At least most jets fans think

[yave1964]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

Agreed that given my druthers of whom I would keep versus who I would trade if I were the Jets, it is a no brainer hands down Wheeler every day of the week. No question.

 

  Problem with that is simple, he turns 31 this year and has two years remaining at 5.6 million a year for a cap hit. Decent numbers, tradable numbers but he will fetch next to nothing as far as a return. If the Jets simply wanted to move him out to make room sure, they could do it but would get a pick and a middling prospect, not much more for him. That does nothing to fix the team.

  They are loaded with young forwards, Laine and Sheifele are going nowhere, Connor is still unproven but has enormous upside, leaving, IMHO Ehlers as the one to dangle to add the desperately needed defenseman to go with the forwards they have in place, and it would allow them to move Buff into the middle six wing slot anyway.

  I would not want to trade Ehlers either, good lord the kid is a solid player who has upside up the wazoo, they just have better in both Laine and Scheifele and a black gaping hole on the back end and if they wish to continue to bang their head against the wall, throwing the same inferior product out night after night and year after year expecting different results, nothing will ever change. As currently assembled they are a borderline playoff team and an early out at best, that will not change, Wheeler is indeed movable but will net nothing much, it would take a big fat pair willing to make a splash in order to change things.

  Larsson for Hall looked absurd on the face of it but look at the culture change it created in the Oilers, but they moved out Hall, moved Lucic into his place and added their shut down defender. Gutsy to put it mildly and so far it now looks brilliant. Not saying the Jets do it, but I would at least entertain offers if say, the Flyers came calling with their group of young defenders on the table or if Hanifin were to be dangled as part of the return from the Canes.

[Podein25]

3 hours ago, yave1964 said:

 And that is the problem, the defense is simply not built for that. Buff God love him is a forward trapped in a d-man role, I understand the desire to have a guy like that play 25 minutes a night and to help join the rush but they have him partnered most nights with Trouba whom I love long term but who is inexperienced and when Buff gets caught up ice which is sadly too often Trouba or whoever gets trapped all alone because God knows the forwards aren't coming back to help. The rest of the defense, Enstrom is not a bust necessarily but he isn't very good either, Morrisey is raw and wants to join the rush and as of yet has not proven to be responsible in his own zone although he appears to have tremendous upside he has a long way to go, and the third pair is a couple of AHLers playing in the NHL out of necessity. Bogosian is rumored to be in there somewhere but like Enstrom he is more shadow than actual substance. So the problem in net goes way beyond the trio they have been playing

 

A couple of things: 

 

1. Bogosian plays for Buffalo. Perhaps you meant Myers, who they got in that Kane deal, but who has been hurt going on two months or more now and it shows.

 

2. Enstrom is hated by many, especially many Jets fans, but that relates more to his salary. he has been paired with Trouba since Trouba came back from holdout. I would love Enstrom in my lineup (not necessarily at his salary). He gets to lots of pucks and makes great outlet plays. 

 

3. It is not accurate to say that Morrisey "has not proven to be responsible in his own zone" - he has been paired with Buff all season. He is not the problem. In fact, of all the nos-Laine story lines coming out of the Jets this season, I would argue Morrisey's arrival as a bona fide NHLer is the main one. 

 

4. Buff. He is a roamer, neither forward nor defenceman. A wholly unique kind of player. For that to work, it needs a unique kind of support from the other 4. When that support is there and working it's a beautiful thing, when it's not it's a horrorshow. 

 

5. The main problem right now IMO is goaltending. It was shaky all year and the team now looks like a team of players terrified to let anything on net, zero trust in their goalies to stop pucks, not give up juicy rebounds etc. They are tentative, they are all trying to do other people's jobs, they are thinking, not reacting, they are running around - all the classic signs of a team that has no confidence in the guys in net. 

 

[yave1964]

9 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

A couple of things: 

 

1. Bogosian plays for Buffalo. Perhaps you meant Myers, who they got in that Kane deal, but who has been hurt going on two months or more now and it shows.

 

2. Enstrom is hated by many, especially many Jets fans, but that relates more to his salary. he has been paired with Trouba since Trouba came back from holdout. I would love Enstrom in my lineup (not necessarily at his salary). He gets to lots of pucks and makes great outlet plays. 

 

3. It is not accurate to say that Morrisey "has not proven to be responsible in his own zone" - he has been paired with Buff all season. He is not the problem. In fact, of all the nos-Laine story lines coming out of the Jets this season, I would argue Morrisey's arrival as a bona fide NHLer is the main one. 

 

4. Buff. He is a roamer, neither forward nor defenceman. A wholly unique kind of player. For that to work, it needs a unique kind of support from the other 4. When that support is there and working it's a beautiful thing, when it's not it's a horrorshow. 

 

5. The main problem right now IMO is goaltending. It was shaky all year and the team now looks like a team of players terrified to let anything on net, zero trust in their goalies to stop pucks, not give up juicy rebounds etc. They are tentative, they are all trying to do other people's jobs, they are thinking, not reacting, they are running around - all the classic signs of a team that has no confidence in the guys in net. 

 

Yep meant Myers, just kind of hard to tell the two of them apart. Big defenseman low draft picks underachievers. Hard to tell apart.

 

  I think fixing the defense fixes the goaltending, that Hellebuyck is a capable number one on a team that plays defense. To me Morrisey is the teams top d-man, either he or Trouba and nobody else is a winning blueliner. Enstrom I guess can play a little but Buff is not now and never will be a top pair defender. Maybe used as a second pair, offensive zone faceoff and power play guy, 18-20 minutes a night with few if any defensive zone faceoffs instead of 25 minutes a night it might be better, he might not wear down like he is prone to as well.

  I just don't see this defense as anything close to a championship contender caliber no matter how much offense they have, Morrisey and Trouba excluded. And you simply cannot win with two defenseman.

[Podein25]

7 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

Yep meant Myers, just kind of hard to tell the two of them apart. Big defenseman low draft picks underachievers. Hard to tell apart.

 

  I think fixing the defense fixes the goaltending, that Hellebuyck is a capable number one on a team that plays defense. To me Morrisey is the teams top d-man, either he or Trouba and nobody else is a winning blueliner. Enstrom I guess can play a little but Buff is not now and never will be a top pair defender. Maybe used as a second pair, offensive zone faceoff and power play guy, 18-20 minutes a night with few if any defensive zone faceoffs instead of 25 minutes a night it might be better, he might not wear down like he is prone to as well.

  I just don't see this defense as anything close to a championship contender caliber no matter how much offense they have, Morrisey and Trouba excluded. And you simply cannot win with two defenseman.

 

I disagree strongly on Myers. Sure he had some bad years on a very lousy Buffalo team, by the end of which his confidence was completely shattered. But since his trade to Wpg he has played like the guy who won the Calder. So I think you're assessment cannot possibly be based on his play since arriving in Wpg. 

 

Re: Buf - never is a long time. He was very good last year as a defenceman. This year he has looked exposed at times. And while he deserves some amount of blame for that, much of his exposure is as a player on a team that exposes everyone in all kinds of ways on any given night. They look, in short, like one of the youngest teams in the league. 

 

FWIW I would take the Jets D core of: Buff, Myers, Trouba, Morrisey and Enstrom any day of the week. 

 

Helleybuck is going to be a great starter in the NHL. Some day. But he is young and when he is off, he is very off. The key for the Jets this year is that he comes out the other end with his confidence and mental health intact. 

 

[yave1964]

12 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I disagree strongly on Myers. Sure he had some bad years on a very lousy Buffalo team, by the end of which his confidence was completely shattered. But since his trade to Wpg he has played like the guy who won the Calder. So I think you're assessment cannot possibly be based on his play since arriving in Wpg. 

 

Re: Buf - never is a long time. He was very good last year as a defenceman. This year he has looked exposed at times. And while he deserves some amount of blame for that, much of his exposure is as a player on a team that exposes everyone in all kinds of ways on any given night. They look, in short, like one of the youngest teams in the league. 

 

FWIW I would take the Jets D core of: Buff, Myers, Trouba, Morrisey and Enstrom any day of the week. 

 

Helleybuck is going to be a great starter in the NHL. Some day. But he is young and when he is off, he is very off. The key for the Jets this year is that he comes out the other end with his confidence and mental health intact. 

 

Apparently I keep confusing my tenses, with regards to Buff, what I meant is he will again be a top tier defenseman. Not ever, but never again. Age and his size have caught up with him, still a force in his own right but never again a top tier minute eating any situation kind of guy. Last year was probably the last year that you can consider him one.

  I just don't think much of Myers. Cant stay healthy, too inconsistent.

  Like the two kids. Nobody else, but the two kids are both keepers.

[jammer2]

18 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

I disagree strongly on Myers. Sure he had some bad years on a very lousy Buffalo team, by the end of which his confidence was completely shattered. But since his trade to Wpg he has played like the guy who won the Calder. So I think you're assessment cannot possibly be based on his play since arriving in Wpg. 

 

Re: Buf - never is a long time. He was very good last year as a defenceman. This year he has looked exposed at times. And while he deserves some amount of blame for that, much of his exposure is as a player on a team that exposes everyone in all kinds of ways on any given night. They look, in short, like one of the youngest teams in the league. 

 

FWIW I would take the Jets D core of: Buff, Myers, Trouba, Morrisey and Enstrom any day of the week. 

 

Helleybuck is going to be a great starter in the NHL. Some day. But he is young and when he is off, he is very off. The key for the Jets this year is that he comes out the other end with his confidence and mental health intact. 

 

 

 

 I really think Logan Stanley becomes part of the equation in 2018 season. He's a project, will come back to Windsor after our Memorial Cup run, but he WILL play in the NHL in some capacity. I think he has grown another inch since being drafted and is now 6'8 and actually looks bigger than Chara. A full head above most of his OHL counterparts. Skating is a big concern but is always getting better. His positional play is getting better, and has really taken on a big leadership role in Windsor. I don't think he will ever be a top pairing guy, but a solid 2nd pairing is within reach.

[Podein25]

4 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I really think Logan Stanley becomes part of the equation in 2018 season. He's a project, will come back to Windsor after our Memorial Cup run, but he WILL play in the NHL in some capacity. I think he has grown another inch since being drafted and is now 6'8 and actually looks bigger than Chara. A full head above most of his OHL counterparts. Skating is a big concern but is always getting better. His positional play is getting better, and has really taken on a big leadership role in Windsor. I don't think he will ever be a top pairing guy, but a solid 2nd pairing is within reach.

 

Yeah, I guess that's why they were keen on him - wasn't it the Flyers' pick they grabbed to move up to snag him?

 

6'8" with a 42' wingspan, what's not to like?

[jammer2]

3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah, I guess that's why they were keen on him - wasn't it the Flyers' pick they grabbed to move up to snag him?

 

6'8" with a 42' wingspan, what's not to like?

 

 

 Yes, Jets moved up in the Flyers spot to grab Logan. His backwards skating has grown by leaps and bounds and his hips seem to pivot more naturally this year, a tough thing to master with a frame this big. Last year, I saw him get BURNED real bad twice in OT, when there is more space for forwards and they can easily take the puck outside and drive to the net. He is getting better, but still a big project moving forward.  At worst, he's a career 3rd pairing like Hal Gill, at best, he's a physical beast 2nd pairing guy who chips in some offence, time will tell.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Ehlers is still their best most consistent forward

 

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Ehlers is still their best most consistent forward

 

Scheifele is