Flyers Trade Deadline Thread

[King Knut]

23 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

Excuse me.... I meant deals.

 

I didn't mean to split hairs.  I'm really curious.  What deals or trades did you foresee that this changes?  

I'm not being rhetorical.  I'm trying to figure out why people are so upset.

[murraycraven]

2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I didn't mean to split hairs.  I'm really curious.  What deals or trades did you foresee that this changes?  

I'm not being rhetorical.  I'm trying to figure out why people are so upset.

 

 

You mean historically or just today?

[NRH]

52 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

So you ask a bunch of questions and I provided the answers....   See above?  That makes total sense....   okay maybe not.   Am I the only person that is not happy?   Last time I checked there were a few and I have NEVER been on the Hextall is God train - ever.  I have been pretty critical of him so come back when you actually have something to say that is actually true.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 strawman now?

 

i literally answered your questions with opinions and now you're offended and deflection with this too?

 

soneone answers some questions, provides stats and you call them a know it all and claim they're just trying to appear more knowledgeable than you.

 

you post nothing other than uniformed opinions and attack everyone that refutes your claims, what's the point of posting on a forum, just create a blog if you don't like people supporting your echo chamber.

[murraycraven]

7 minutes ago, NRH said:

 

 

 strawman now?

 

i literally answered your questions with opinions and now you're offended and deflection with this too?

 

 

What are you even talking about?  What is your deal?  

 

Seriously.... Use the ignore function if I piss you off.   

 

You are so angry....

[NRH]

5 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

What are you even talking about?  What is your deal?  

 

Seriously.... Use the ignore function if I piss you off.   A Caps and Flyers fan....  Enough said.

If anyone needs to use the function is you. I literally answered your questions and your entire reply was a huge deflection to undermine what I said and then your subsequent reply was "stop pretending to be more knowledgeable" when in fact it was you acting that way.

 

sorry people have dissenting opinions, welcome to the internet.

[murraycraven]

18 minutes ago, NRH said:

If anyone needs to use the function is you. I literally answere hid your questions and your entire reply was a huge deflection to undermine what I said and then your subsequent reply was "stop pretending to be more knowledgeable" when in fact it was you acting that way.

 

sorry people have dissenting opinions, welcome to the internet.

 

 

Do you need an internet hug?  I am a hugger!

 

It is okay dude.... As fans we will also get through this together....   

Man, I really had no intention of pissing you off...    Seriously.

 

I still don't understand how I "undermined" you but truly was not intended.

 

 

[NRH]

5 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

You are so angry.   Do you need an internet hug?   It is okay dude.... As fans we will also get through this together....   

Man, I really had no intention of pissing you off...    Seriously.

 

I still don't understand how I "undermined" you but truly was not intended.

 

 

I'm angry? How did you make that leap? I'm just replying to your straw man arguments and deflections, you're the one angrily avoiding the content I originally posted to attack me every chance you get.

[murraycraven]

Just now, NRH said:

I'm angry? How did you make that leap? I'm just replying to your straw man arguments and deflections, you're the one angrily avoiding the content I originally posted to attack me every chance you get.

 

And how have I attacked you exactly?  

[ruxpin]

Good lord, what is with people today? 

 

Let's keep it to disagreements about the trade. K? 

[murraycraven]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Good lord, what is with people today? 

 

Let's keep it to disagreements about the trade. K? 

 

 

Agreed.   

[NRH]

21 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

And how have I attacked you exactly?  

Calling someone ms hextall instead of addressing the content of the post.

 

telling someone that addresses your post and referencing me and telling them to start a fan club

 

implying that they're less knowledgeable than yourself when they answer a bunch of questions you asked 

 

Continous strawman arguments and deflections and when that's pointed out replying with "you're so mad" and filled with snide remarks to keep with the off topic narrative you've driven the topic towards instead of actually addressing the post that addressed your points and asked questions of you that you refused to answer.

 

continuing to refuse to address any posts, spout irrelevant nonsense and brow beat to drive the general civil discourse into nothing but a series of slap fighting replies.

[FD19372]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

FD:

 

That's a good assessment.  The day leaves me dazed...but cements the deep dog poop we're in.  I am wondering about our defensive pairings the rest of the season.  No...I want to drive home with as little distraction as possible.

Drive first, hockey later.

[murraycraven]

12 minutes ago, NRH said:

Calling someone ms hextall instead of addressing the content of the post.

 

telling someone that addresses your post and referencing me and telling them to start a fan club

 

implying that they're less knowledgeable than yourself when they answer a bunch of questions you asked 

 

Continous strawman arguments and deflections and when that's pointed out replying with "you're so mad" and filled with snide remarks to keep with the off topic narrative you've driven the topic towards instead of actually addressing the post that addressed your points and asked questions of you that you refused to answer.

 

continuing to refuse to address any posts, spout irrelevant nonsense and brow beat to drive the general civil discourse into nothing but a series of slap fighting replies.

 

OK....   Thanks.

[canoli]

@murraycraven

 

5 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

definitely....   

 

nothing like overpaying for a 4th line center and is disposable.

 

this was your reply to "Bellemare is worth every penny. imho."

 

not for nothing murray but you must be pretty bummed today. You're so negative about ... everything lol. Your stab at sarcasm aside you really don't think Bellemare's worth $1.45mil? He's "disposable?"

 

I think Bellemare is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. He's a solid PKer and a decent FO man (~49%). He skates mostly on the 4th line for Hakstol but he could easily play higher in the roster. He and VDV work well together and - hold onto your hat! - I hope Hextall gives VDV a (small) raise too b/c he deserves it.

 

[edit: uh-oh, just read the previous posts, didn't realize you were already ... "engaged" ... maybe hold off on answering me about Bell - anytime after the smoke clears! )

[murraycraven]

15 minutes ago, canoli said:

@murraycraven

 

 

this was your reply to "Bellemare is worth every penny. imho."

 

not for nothing murray but you must be pretty bummed today. You're so negative about ... everything lol. Your stab at sarcasm aside you really don't think Bellemare's worth $1.45mil? He's "disposable?"

 

I think Bellemare is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. He's a solid PKer and a decent FO man (~49%). He skates mostly on the 4th line for Hakstol but he could easily play higher in the roster. He and VDV work well together and - hold onto your hat! - I hope Hextall gives VDV a (small) raise too b/c he deserves it.

 

[edit: uh-oh, just read the previous posts, didn't realize you were already ... "engaged" ... maybe hold off on answering me about Bell - anytime after the smoke clears! )

 

 

Wow... I disagreed with you.   Like 50 percent of the other posters.    God forbid... 

 

Lol....

[NRH]

1 minute ago, canoli said:

@murraycraven

 

 

this was your reply to "Bellemare is worth every penny. imho."

 

not for nothing murray but you must be pretty bummed today. You're so negative about ... everything lol. Your stab at sarcasm aside you really don't think Bellemare's worth $1.45mil? He's "disposable?"

 

I think Bellemare is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. He's a solid PKer and a decent FO man (~49%). He skates mostly on the 4th line for Hakstol but he could easily play higher in the roster. He and VDV work well together and - hold onto your hat! - I hope Hextall gives VDV a (small) raise too b/c he deserves it.

 

He's also fairly consistent, he's one of the few players that hasn't constantly popped up on any of the Flyers discussion boards as a "turn-over machine" or "no better than if you tossed a road cone out on the ice with a stick tied to it".

 

It sounds like PEB and Neuvirth were given raises and both put out there as exposure targets, if they get taken it's likely so that Vegas can hit the cap floor. I still don't see who you'd sign instead of PEB though, would people have preferred Giroux, simmonds or vorachek being traded? This team isn't loaded with talent that people are clamoring for their players, I think Fipp is an upgrade over streit and it opens the door for the younger defensemen to come out of the AHL and play a more permanent role on the Flyers, Hagg seems the most likely to make an appearance for the team next year.

[ruxpin]

30 minutes ago, canoli said:

He skates mostly on the 4th line for Hakstol but he could easily play higher in the roster

I'm good with your description of and argument for him except for this part that I really disagree with. 

 

He's a fourth line player and PK specialist. I'm okay with that. I'm good with the fact he brings what he has every game. I'm good with his salary.  But this is what he is. I think that other than short term fill in, he's not good for top 6. 

 

Fourth line and pk seems a good role for him and we could do a lot worse. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm disappointed at how today turned out. I have no problems with the Streit trade and Filppula is going to be a welcome addition. This isn't just some grizzled veteran. This is a playmaker that can play two-way hockey and will help Couturier get to the next level. At the same time, I'm very upset that Neuvirth and Bellemare were re-signed while Mason and Del Zotto are still in the club house. In the case of Mason, with Neuvirth re-signed, I'm expecting the Mason of old to return and raise a stink and become a club house distraction. Hextall had a chance to clean house and get some assets for expiring contracts. He didn't. Now, the Flyers are still probably going to have about 14 to 15 million come off the cap, but that's going to limit who they target in the off season and it's going to limit who possibly gets moved out.

 

So to recap, after today, the Flyers have their first, their second, two thirds and three fourth round picks. 9 picks in the first four rounds is pretty decent. I'm upset though that they could have had more, especially with what some guys went for. I'm certain they could have moved Mason and Del Zotto.

[LegionOfDoom]

The fact we dont have an enforcer playing for us is a change of pace.

Even Gudas is not intimidating anymore.

We should of traded VV for Rinaldo and put a spark back into our team. The Oilers debacle wouldn't of gone on all game and we'd have a better identity like it or not.

 

[AJgoal]

So, after a trip to the vet and some time to digest, a few random thoughts.

 

I'd have thought Streit would have had more value. For perspective, it's generally accepted that a pick is worth an equivalent pick one round lower for each year out it is. So the pick Pittsburgh sent to Tampa is considered the equivalent of a 5th this year, since it is a fourth next year. And that's with half his salary retained. I think that is a surprise to everyone. Meltzer had him pegged at a third, for example. I thought a 3/4, without any salary retained. That means at full salary, Streit was actually worth... a 6th/7th rounder.

 

To follow on with that, that means the value of taking on Filppula's cap hit was about a 4th. When I posited trading for his hit before things really heated up this morning, I was hoping for more. That said, as I said before, Filppula isn't worthless. He comes in and immediately leads the Flyers in even-strength points. He's having a down year, but is generally good at faceoffs. And he solidifies the center position for the rest of this year and into next. After next, you can see where Rubtsov is, and maybe even flip Filppula at the next deadline.

 

With regard to the cap, he's $5 million for one year. There's not much out there next year at defense, center, or LW. Yes, there's Shattenkirk, but he's going to command money and term that the Flyers should not, IMO, commit to at this stage. Marleau, Thornton, Vanek... The Flyers aren't at a stage where signing those guys makes sense. I'm working on a bigger post that I'll probably put up over the weekend that delves deeper into the cap ramifications of today and what the three moves mean for next year, but the short version is: really not much, at least if you're being honest with yourself and looking at the available players. And I am somewhat interested to see how things fall into place with a more offensively minded 2nd line.

 

I don't like the numbers that Bellemare or Neuvirth got. You expect Neuvirth to rebound from one of his worst seasons, but he shouldn't be able to parlay his body of work over the past two seasons, a solid but unspectacular year last year with a few excellent playoff games, followed by the mess that was this year, into an almost $1 million raise. A small one? Sure, it's the nature of the league. But he got about 50% more. And Bellemare is good defensively, but that's what you have Couturier for, right? Your fourth line should be driving play if it's not out there as a shut down line, which ours is typically not. And they don't. Now, it's not a significant overpay, but when you're trying to dig out of a cap hole, the combined million or so they overpayed for those two, especially if Weise doesn't pick up his play next year, and the million and a half that Voracek is getting over what he probably should, start to add up.

 

But the sky didn't really fall today. And there are some interesting possibilities that opened up for the offseason. The first is that now you can take a serious look at using Schenn or Couturier as trade chips. For example, Schenn, much as I think he's a better player than he's generally given credit for, is pretty apparently a square peg on this team. If the rumors that swirled the past couple of weeks are true that Colorado was really interested in dealing Landeskog or Duchesne here, you can now use Schenn as part of that deal, and bring in Landeskog, for example, without necessarily opening up a hole elsewhere in the lineup. You could even ship Couturier in a deal for the vet D-man that the blueline needs that you probably can't get in free agency, and replace him with a free agent at 3C, and use the 4th line to do the heavy lifting defensively. This could, in fact, be the precursor to the blowup that some have been calling for. 

 

In the end, I'm whelmed by today, but I've cooled off a bit on how I felt earlier. In my mind, though, there needs to be a second half to this in the offseason for today to really end up making sense.

[brelic]

4 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm disappointed at how today turned out. I have no problems with the Streit trade and Filppula is going to be a welcome addition. This isn't just some grizzled veteran. This is a playmaker that can play two-way hockey and will help Couturier get to the next level. At the same time, I'm very upset that Neuvirth and Bellemare were re-signed while Mason and Del Zotto are still in the club house. In the case of Mason, with Neuvirth re-signed, I'm expecting the Mason of old to return and raise a stink and become a club house distraction. Hextall had a chance to clean house and get some assets for expiring contracts. He didn't. Now, the Flyers are still probably going to have about 14 to 15 million come off the cap, but that's going to limit who they target in the off season and it's going to limit who possibly gets moved out.

 

So to recap, after today, the Flyers have their first, their second, two thirds and three fourth round picks. 9 picks in the first four rounds is pretty decent. I'm upset though that they could have had more, especially with what some guys went for. I'm certain they could have moved Mason and Del Zotto.

 

Total speculation on my part, but there were rumours that Neuvirth didn't want to resign because he didn't want to be exposed. 

 

What if the intention is to keep and resign Mason in the offseason when they have time to focus on that, and both goalies were told what's what?

 

"Neuvirth, we're not going to resign you in the offseason. The goalie market is not great and you've had a difficult year. What if we give you a decent contract for two years and expose you? Worst case, you make $5M over two years playing for Vegas. Prove you're a solid and durable goalie and you will be rewarded. You are still young in goalie years. "

 

 

[jammer2]

On 2/26/2017 at 7:49 PM, Samifan said:

Just read that LA really wanted Ryan Miller but he reportedly has his heart set on returning to Buffalo.....

 

 Does he really want to go back to Buffalo, or is just for the halibut?

[Howie58]

Here is another possible take on the Flippula signing--this is a 20 game tryout with buyout possible if it doesn't pan out. See post from TSN.ca and our former Inquirer reporter, Frank Seravali:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/flyers-acquire-filppula-from-lightning-1.684783

 

There was talk he was going to be bought out at end of year.  That makes the acquisition more suspect in some ways but put the end of season as an audition.

 

 

 

 

[FD19372]

3 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Here is another possible take on the Flippula signing--this is a 20 game tryout with buyout possible if it doesn't pan out. See post from TSN.ca and our former Inquirer reporter, Frank Seravali:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/flyers-acquire-filppula-from-lightning-1.684783

 

There was talk he was going to be bought out at end of year.  That makes the acquisition more suspect in some ways but put the end of season as an audition.

 

 

 

 

People who are crying about getting a 32 year old winger with 5 mil cap hit make me laugh. If he clicks in on a line somewhere, it opens up the door for a Couturier trade. If he doesn't move him somewhere else, it's that simple.

[AJgoal]

There is absolutely no reason to consider buying out Filppula this offseason. If you must exercise a buyout, you buyout MacDonald, because you will almost have to at some point before his contract expires anyway. Filppula is one more year. You can play him for that long. Tampa would have needed to buy him out not because of the NMC, but because they would have serious issues re-signing their young players this offseason. I'd say it's lazy reporting, but it's Seravelli,, which is synonymous.