Flyers Trade Deadline Thread

[flyercanuck]

3 minutes ago, icehole said:

Well then maybe I'm not explaining it right.

 

I feel like saying "McDavid is the fastest skater" is like saying Andre the giant is the biggest person in the world or Michael Jordan was the longest jumper in his day.  That's not the case, but Andre the giant was the largest person that people would see on TV, and Michael Jordan was the best player in the world, so people assume that they are greater at everything they do.

 

Gretzky did score the most goals, but I bet there is some 10 year old kid on YouTube right now that has more skills than Gretzky and McDavid.  You'll probably never know who he is because he doesn't have what it takes to be known.

 

Why are we still talking about this?

 

Sure....except that McDavid IS the fastest skater in the NHL. 

[JR Ewing]

When you see coaches and hockey people around the NHL being asked if they've ever seen a player as fast as McDavid before, and the closest you get are answers like "maybe Bobby Orr" and "maybe there's been a guy faster, but I've never seen it", it seems like a hard sell that there's 50 other men in the league just as fast.

 

He cleanly broke Mike Gartner's record last month, and that was while winded and forced to race immediately after finishing his preliminary skate.

[JR Ewing]

For my part, if Weal is being protected by the Flyers, is says more about their lack of offensive depth than it does about his upside. He's about to turn 25 next month... He's not a prospect any longer, and he's scored 1 NHL goal.

 

[jammer2]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

I am not buying that one whatsoever.... McDavid has some flat-out wheels - game changing wheels.

 

 

 I would be outright shocked if there was even 5 guys faster than McDavid in the NHL, hell probably the whole world, His vision and ability to do certain things at a great speed make him special, but the foundation of his game is outright, pure blazing speed.

 

 The last time I remember seeing an OHL player as fast as McDavid was Paul Coffey with the Kitchener Rangers. When I saw Erie play London, Marner was out with an injury, and I was really hoping to see both of them live at a game, cause Marner is in and around McDavid's top speed.

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

For my part, if Weal is being protected by the Flyers, is says more about their lack of offensive depth than it does about his upside. He's about to turn 25 next month... He's not a prospect any longer, and he's scored 1 NHL goal.

 

 

...and a shootout goal!  That alone makes him valuable to these suckers.  

 

You think if they protect Raffl it says something g different about their depth?  They can only protect 7 guys. 

[JR Ewing]

37 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

...and a shootout goal!  That alone makes him valuable to these suckers.  

 

You think if they protect Raffl it says something g different about their depth?  They can only protect 7 guys. 

 

Exactly. That these are the choices is not the place you want to be in.

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Streit just scored for the Penguins.  And I threw up a bit...

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

11 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

Streit just scored for the Penguins.  And I threw up a bit...

 

How does Mark Streit go from playing for the Flyers and hating the Penguins' collective guts, to now PLAYING for them, and even helping them on the scoreboard being all buddy buddy with them?

How, how, HOW does he do it...???

 

Oh wait...

Streit is Swiss.

They are neutral.

He never hated the Pens, now he plays for them, and doesn't hate the Flyers either......doesn't even hate Steve Yzerman for causing him extra airfare....  moving on....

[mojo1917]

@icehole

My last thought about fast skaters.  In today's sports world there aren't very many unknown greats. 

There might be a guy at Rucker park who could ball in the NBA but he isn't the GOAT. 

There isn't a guy we don't know about who is playing hockey who is faster than the fastest guy in the NHL.

That just isn't the case.

Konecny is a nice player and he's plenty fast, with the puck and without it. 

A good many of our guys in Lehigh Valley are good skaters too, it's the current paradigm of the NHL, Leier, Laughton, Abe-Kubel, Martel all those guys have + speed.  As our team turns over we will see an uptick in our team's speed and skating ability.

 

[OccamsRazor]

 

So TK is suppose to be back for next game so who sits???

[AJgoal]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So TK is suppose to be back for next game so who sits???

 

I'd sit Cousins or Weise.

 

So it will probably be Simmonds.

[NRH]

14 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

This is my gut too.  Weal is making it harder to think otherwise with each passing game.

 

I'm reluctant to some extent because of his size, but I think they've been leaning on Raffl being "Good at the little things" a little too much and frankly they need someone who will be good at the big things (like finding the net) which Weal has been managing to do in a few games.  

 

TK             G          Simmer

Schenner  Filp      Jake

Weal         Coots   Read

Weise       PEB      Cousins

 

Provo       Mac

Gudas      Ghost

Sanheim   Manning / Morin

 

Stolarz 

Neuwirth

 

I would LOVE to see them sign someone old, cagey and rough on Defense to put Manning in the Press box and guide the kids for a year or two.    I'd settle for younger in a trade if need be too ( a Hjalmarsson trade has been discussed elsewhere because Chicago may wish to protect someone else).  

 

Chatter (and it just Chatter) is that Hextall may still wish to give Bishop a deal for a couple of years.  This really only makes sense if McPhee goes for Neuwirth or if Hextall unloads Stolarz somehow (maybe in a trade for a Hjalmarsson type).  

 

 

 

 

No Hagg?

[icehole]

7 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@icehole

My last thought about fast skaters.  In today's sports world there aren't very many unknown greats. 

There might be a guy at Rucker park who could ball in the NBA but he isn't the GOAT. 

There isn't a guy we don't know about who is playing hockey who is faster than the fastest guy in the NHL.

That just isn't the case.

Konecny is a nice player and he's plenty fast, with the puck and without it. 

A good many of our guys in Lehigh Valley are good skaters too, it's the current paradigm of the NHL, Leier, Laughton, Abe-Kubel, Martel all those guys have + speed.  As our team turns over we will see an uptick in our team's speed and skating ability.

 

When I said 50 guys, of course that is an exaggeration.  But my point was that skating alone won't get your name out there, and there's usually someone better at a certain skill than the guy that's well known.  You think you're the best at flicking M&Ms into a Dixie cup from 10 yards out because you do it all day every day and nobody else at the local bar can even come close...guess what, there's probably someone better at it out there.  That's just life.

 

So it was probably a bad assumption for me to say McDavid isn't the fastest skater.  I look at him as the complete package and usually complete packages aren't the best at one certain skill.  They just know how to put everything together.

 

If you know about every player in the league including the AHL call ups, and you know that McDavid is faster than everyone of them, you obviously know more about the league than I do.  So I'll take your word that McDavid is the fastest skater.

 

As for the Konecny argument, I guess it all depends on what your barometer for fast is.  Maybe 50 guys aren't faster than McDavid, but how many guys in the league are faster than TK?  My barometer for saying he's not fast is being a top 15 speedster.  Do you think there's 14 guys faster?  I'd have to really watch and gauge it.  Not once this year have I seen him been neck to neck with a defender and pull away though.  I've probably seen 14 other cases of guys pulling away from defenders.

[flyercanuck]

6 minutes ago, icehole said:

When I said 50 guys, of course that is an exaggeration.  But my point was that skating alone won't get your name out there, and there's usually someone better at a certain skill than the guy that's well known.  You think you're the best at flicking M&Ms into a Dixie cup from 10 yards out because you do it all day every day and nobody else at the local bar can even come close...guess what, there's probably someone better at it out there.  That's just life.

 

So it was probably a bad assumption for me to say McDavid isn't the fastest skater.  I look at him as the complete package and usually complete packages aren't the best at one certain skill.  They just know how to put everything together.

 

 Well when you come out and say there's 50 guys faster than the guy who's generally considered the fastest player EVER in the NHL it kind of makes it sound like you're just making sh ite up. Especially when you get called out for it and can't even name one single player. 

 

6 minutes ago, icehole said:

 

If you know about every player in the league including the AHL call ups, and you know that McDavid is faster than everyone of them, you obviously know more about the league than I do.  So I'll take your word that McDavid is the fastest skater.

 

 Again, he's considered by almost everyone who watches hockey as the fastest player. It's not some deeply guarded secret that only a handful of hockey nerds who watch tape over and over dissecting each and every game hold near to their heart. 

 

6 minutes ago, icehole said:

 

As for the Konecny argument, I guess it all depends on what your barometer for fast is.  Maybe 50 guys aren't faster than McDavid, but how many guys in the league are faster than TK?  My barometer for saying he's not fast is being a top 15 speedster.  Do you think there's 14 guys faster?  I'd have to really watch and gauge it.  Not once this year have I seen him been neck to neck with a defender and pull away though.  I've probably seen 14 other cases of guys pulling away from defenders.

 

 Konecnys fast. I doubt he's top 15 fast, but even if he's in the 20s or 30s, out of 700 NHL players, thats fast. No matter how negative you feel about him.

 

 Gauge it? You can't even gauge that McDavid has top 50 speed...your gauge sucks. get a new one. 

[SpikeDDS]

33 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Well when you come out and say there's 50 guys faster than the guy who's generally considered the fastest player EVER in the NHL it kind of makes it sound like you're just making sh ite up. Especially when you get called out for it and can't even name one single player. 

 

 

 Again, he's considered by almost everyone who watches hockey as the fastest player. It's not some deeply guarded secret that only a handful of hockey nerds who watch tape over and over dissecting each and every game hold near to their heart. 

 

 

 Konecnys fast. I doubt he's top 15 fast, but even if he's in the 20s or 30s, out of 700 NHL players, thats fast. No matter how negative you feel about him.

 

 Gauge it? You can't even gauge that McDavid has top 50 speed...your gauge sucks. get a new one. 

 

I dunno. I see Andreas Athansiou skate, and he is super fast. He may even be faster than McDavid. But it's really neither here nor there, because AA is NO McDavid. What makes people awe McDavid with regard to his speed is that he combines that speed with a size that we haven't seen in, like, a LOOONG time. Combine THAT with his ability to compete and score, and you've got a legitimate generational talent.

 

Bottom line, McDavid may or may not be the fastest skater in the league, but even if he is not, he's close enough to where his speed just adds in with the rest of his obvious gifts and talents and skills to be what looks to me like the best player in the league for the next several years, even if he may not yet be at that level. Barring injury, it is coming.

 

Scotty Bowman is not one to exaggerate. His comment about McDavid was that he marvels at how fast he is, especially given his size. He's not wrong very often.

[flyercanuck]

37 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

 

I dunno. I see Andreas Athansiou skate, and he is super fast. He may even be faster than McDavid. But it's really neither here nor there, because AA is NO McDavid. What makes people awe McDavid with regard to his speed is that he combines that speed with a size that we haven't seen in, like, a LOOONG time. Combine THAT with his ability to compete and score, and you've got a legitimate generational talent.

 

Bottom line, McDavid may or may not be the fastest skater in the league, but even if he is not, he's close enough to where his speed just adds in with the rest of his obvious gifts and talents and skills to be what looks to me like the best player in the league for the next several years, even if he may not yet be at that level. Barring injury, it is coming.

 

Scotty Bowman is not one to exaggerate. His comment about McDavid was that he marvels at how fast he is, especially given his size. He's not wrong very often.

 

The most amazing thing about Mcdavid is his puck handling combined with his blazing speed. 

 

And yes, Athanasiou can be mentioned in fastest skaters in the league. It's a short list and does not include 50 players no one has ever heard of though.

[yave1964]

@jammer2 asked me to give my two cents on Filppula as I watched him grow and play for the Wings for 500 games give or take while wearing the winged wheel.

 

  His nickname in Detroit was 'shoot the damn puck' Filppula because that is what Babs used to scream at him, that is what his own teammates used to beg him to do, his shooting percentage was always at or near the top of the Wings year in and year out, and yet he hardly shot preferring to pass instead. It got so bad one year that his primary winger Samuelsson was instructed to follow the play in rather than attack to force Val to be creative and use his immense skill to get the puck on net. It would work for awhile and then he would go back to his old ways of pass first, pass second, pass third and then maybe shoot. I watched him a fair amount in Tampa and he still seemed like the same player.

 

  On a night by night basis, about once every three or four games he was Datsyuk, he could take over a game and not only be relevant but the best forward on the ice, but he usually finds a way of following it with two or three games where you barely notice him out there. He is immensely skilled and capable but he can be a floater as well and Babcock rode him hard (which is why I believe he turned down a trade to Toronto) to get the most out of him. He does not like the rough stuff and avoids the front of the net but he is a terrific passer and can play in all situations.

 

  That is about it. A classic middle six center with skill level to be better than that but seems content as a player with that role.

[flyercanuck]

Nice analysis and write-up, as always yave!

[hf101]

7 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

avoids the front of the net

 

heh, 

“I was just trying to go to the net and it just hit my stick,” Filppula said.

 

[yave1964]

@hf101, Lol very nice but you will see that he should be nicknamed the magician because of his ability to disappear for games at a time. Like I said, he has a game a week where he is THAT player, a dominating player at both ends and he can be a big game player as well, he was tremendous in the postseason in both 2008 and 2009 on the way to the cup finals but Val is Val and nobody has ever managed to get him to turn it on every night.

[SpikeDDS]

37 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The most amazing thing about Mcdavid is his puck handling combined with his blazing speed. 

 

And yes, Athanasiou can be mentioned in fastest skaters in the league. It's a short list and does not include 50 players no one has ever heard of though.

 

Again, I dunno. AA is still pretty nifty with his stick work at high speed too. McDavid is probably still better with his stick, speaking frankly. However, I think the difference is McDavid's ability to handle traffic and a body on him and STILL create a good opportunity. His size allows him to do that, whereas if AA has a body on him, it limits his opportunities too much.

 

This is the trouble with the Red Wing forward mold, IMHO. We've got guys who can shoot the puck...when they have time and space. Nyquist. Tatar. Athanasiou. They can all skillfully shoot the puck when unimpeded. But with a body on them, they are not as effective.

 

McDavid has the size, speed and skills where he can overcome pressure, and as his body further develops, he will only become more dominant. Again, barring injury.

[flyercanuck]

12 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

 

Again, I dunno. AA is still pretty nifty with his stick work at high speed too. McDavid is probably still better with his stick, speaking frankly. However, I think the difference is McDavid's ability to handle traffic and a body on him and STILL create a good opportunity. His size allows him to do that, whereas if AA has a body on him, it limits his opportunities too much.

 

This is the trouble with the Red Wing forward mold, IMHO. We've got guys who can shoot the puck...when they have time and space. Nyquist. Tatar. Athanasiou. They can all skillfully shoot the puck when unimpeded. But with a body on them, they are not as effective.

 

McDavid has the size, speed and skills where he can overcome pressure, and as his body further develops, he will only become more dominant. Again, barring injury.

 

I honestly don't think Mcdavid is any bigger than AA, at least not much. Though he certainly will drive into contact more. I had the pleasure of watching Athanasiou for a couple of years here, the knock on him was always perimeter play and being a bit of a puck hog.

 

Fun player to watch though. And a heck of a nice 4th round pick.

[OccamsRazor]

52 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

@hf101, Lol very nice but you will see that he should be nicknamed the magician because of his ability to disappear for games at a time. Like I said, he has a game a week where he is THAT player, a dominating player at both ends and he can be a big game player as well, he was tremendous in the postseason in both 2008 and 2009 on the way to the cup finals but Val is Val and nobody has ever managed to get him to turn it on every night.

 

 

Sound like he'll fit right in. Flyers are loaded with passers.

 

What i found surprising is that Filppula was the FIRST Finn to ever score an NHL goal for the Wings.

 

Wow!

 

Man i know you love your Swedes but never would have thought that.

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

@jammer2 asked me to give my two cents on Filppula as I watched him grow and play for the Wings for 500 games give or take while wearing the winged wheel.

 

  His nickname in Detroit was 'shoot the damn puck' Filppula because that is what Babs used to scream at him, that is what his own teammates used to beg him to do, his shooting percentage was always at or near the top of the Wings year in and year out, and yet he hardly shot preferring to pass instead. It got so bad one year that his primary winger Samuelsson was instructed to follow the play in rather than attack to force Val to be creative and use his immense skill to get the puck on net. It would work for awhile and then he would go back to his old ways of pass first, pass second, pass third and then maybe shoot. I watched him a fair amount in Tampa and he still seemed like the same player.

 

  On a night by night basis, about once every three or four games he was Datsyuk, he could take over a game and not only be relevant but the best forward on the ice, but he usually finds a way of following it with two or three games where you barely notice him out there. He is immensely skilled and capable but he can be a floater as well and Babcock rode him hard (which is why I believe he turned down a trade to Toronto) to get the most out of him. He does not like the rough stuff and avoids the front of the net but he is a terrific passer and can play in all situations.

 

  That is about it. A classic middle six center with skill level to be better than that but seems content as a player with that role.

 

 

 Thanks for sharing your thoughts, helps us get a better read on what we got. Even with the motivational problems, I doubt Hexy could have got a more talented guy, much less for the short term commitment and 5 mill.  I know a lot of posters are turned off by the 5 mill, but 5 mill is just not what it used to be in the NHL. A decent scoring 2nd line Center is just about what it can fetch, guys with less talent will get more money for a LOT more term. A good deal from where I'm sitting.

[yave1964]

The thing that always drove the Wings nuts with Filppula is that he is a tremendous shooter, his career shooting pct is 13 percent, the league average is 9 percent and the Capitals lead the league this year overall at 11.2 so obviously he can shoot, he even had an insane year where it was over 19 percent.

  He just does not like to shoot, no idea why the man is fantastic with the puck on his stick he just prefers to dish it off rather than finish himself. I always thought he had 25-30 goal talent but he takes games off and when pressured instead of creating he dumps the puck. Year after year he always did the same thing. Still, we signed Stephen Weiss for the same money as Tampa gave to Val because Babcock was tired of him and that turned out to be one of the worst signings ever for any team spending 27 million for a dozen goals scored before paying him to go away. In the long run, the Wings would have been much better off accepting the things that Val can do.