Flyers Trade Deadline Thread

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I think Myers eventually could pair with Provorov and both would be very good at both ends of the ice. Obviously his health would have to be good...here's hoping he doesn't take anymore head shots. I doubt Ghost would respond well to those either. Or anyone else. 

 

 I'd sooner wait to see what we have before we trade any of our defencemen. At least Hextall figured out we had to draft and develop our own dmen and goalies...why sell low when you could have valuable pieces? We could end up trading away the best of the bunch before we even knew it.

 

 I'm not in a rush to make the playoffs...I want a cup contender. If it takes a couple extra years to build it, so be it. I think we need two more quality drafts to fill in future forwards.

 

I hope his head's okay too.  And no.  No one does.  I wasn't bringing it up as something Myers had done wrong.  It's not his fault really.  I'm not even the kind who jumps on Lindros for "not keeping his head up."

 

But I'm just thinking in draconian terms.  It's a concern that could become an unfortunate liability.  As a Flyers fan in particular I've watched too many heroes and captains have careers cut short by concussions. I'm hyper sensitive to it.  

 

I just don't think we can be afraid of trading away the D men when we are pretty much at capacity.  

 

Frankly, I'm far more concerned about GIroux right now and unloading him.  If however a deal came along for a proven goal scoring and skilled 1LW, deals have to at least be considered. 

 

I'm not sold on Landeskog.  I can't see why Sakic would trade away Duchene and Landeskog if they're both so friggin' great.  Just don't see it.  Not unless they're literally asking and Joey knows they need lots of picks and prospects for a complete rebuild staring right now that won't be done in the next 7 years.  Which is a terrifying thought for that team and it's fans.  

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 I can't see why Sakic would trade away Duchene and Landeskog if they're both so friggin' great.

 

 

Or why he would trade them away if they were so HARD to find. It would go to show you how hard it is to find the right Dmen...so why would we trade the Dmen you have invested in and nurtured to someone else....you do the work and another team reaps the benefits...

 

 

 

...no way...i hold the course and draft forwards the Dmen will be ready soon. But this is just the way i see it.

[AJgoal]

Interesting. With Bishop being moved, the Lightning are able to apply entry level bonuses against this year's cap. So it behooves the Flyers even more to clear out at least a little space so that they can do the same with any bonuses due Konecny, Provorov, and Gostisbehere.

[King Knut]

27 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

 

Why wouldn't he want Bishop? It's either him or bring back Mason because there isnt anyone else available via free agency

 

He can sign Bishop on 7/1 if that's how he feels, but to me the only reason to have Bishop now is so you fulfill the requirements of exposing a goalie.  

 

Trade Mason and Neuwirth if you can just to get something for them (4th, 5th rounders at this point?)  

 

Stolarz, Lyon, Sandstrom, Hart...  The Flyers could use a Bishop type for the next year, but seriously, they might as well start playing these kids now to see what the hell they've got.   Obviously Sandstrom will be a Phantom next year and in all Likeliehood, Hart will stay in Juniors for another year.  

 

But Lyon and Stolarz need to get (more) NHL minutes next year.  Considering how bad the team is now, I'd be willing to let the team ride with them and give Sandstrom a ton of AHL minutes.

 

They're going to be even worse next year unless Hextall pulls off a miracle (and it doesn't appear that he's interested).  So I'd just as soon get these kids the minutes they need to get some experience and show us what they've got.  

 

They need someone to expose, for sure.  

But I don't need him to be a viable starter.  

 

Whoever it is needs to be treated as if his career is 2 years from over and that he'll be passing the baton.

 

I'm terrified that they're going to bring Mason back.

 

 

[King Knut]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Or why he would trade them away if they were so HARD to find. It would go to show you how hard it is to find the right Dmen...so why would we trade the Dmen you have invested in and nurtured to someone else....you do the work and another team reaps the benefits...

 

 

 

...no way...i hold the course and draft forwards the Dmen will be ready soon. But this is just the way i see it.

 

I'm inclined to lean that way myself.  I still think they need a vet stay at home D man to help stabilize the pairings until both Hagg and Morin are ready (or we know one of them won't be) which should happen over the course of next season.  

 

It's time for these kids to play.  

 

I do think they need a good LW with some skill that can hit a corner, but looking at them play,  bringing one of those in alone isn't going to start making them win games.  They're just too awful right now for that.   They need better goaltending and better more solid Defense in their own end.    The goals will follow out from that.

 

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

I would say they are at a minumum of 3 years away and more likely 5 years.

 

From what?  

Competing for top seeding and deep playoff runs I hope.

 

I agree if so.    The playoffs should be happening now. They're simply not this bad and I'm concerned about that. 

 

Either way Giroux needs to go.  

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 I still think they need a vet stay at home D man to help stabilize the pairings until both Hagg and Morin are ready (or we know one of them won't be) which should happen over the course of next season.  

 

 

I'm afraid as of right now that so called vet will be Radko who will be 27 this summer.

 

Is it the ideal Kimmo vet i would say no.

 

But it will have to do till Hextall finds another.

[King Knut]

42 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

In typical Flyer fashion they hold on to diminishing players until they are worth nothing. The drive to mediocrity consumes the front office. Giroux is a future buyout, Streit is maybe a 3rd round pick, and so on and so on. BITFU.

 

I still expect Streit and possibly MDZ to be moved.  Hextall should have sent MDZ to Montreal when they were asking earlier in the year.  He hasn't fit in all year and they've done better without him in the lineup.  And not because he's bad but because they cannot accommodate his skillset with a decent pairing.  Now he just looks awful to anyone.  

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I do think they need a good LW with some skill that can hit a corner, but looking at them play,

 

 

Who knows this guy could be in the system already his name is Lindblom.

 

Dude has lit the SHL up this year last time a forward this young did that his name was Peter Forsberg (sure Peter did so at 19) but Oskar did just turn 20 in August. 

 

Just saying remain patient i think Ron has a plan.

[King Knut]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I'm afraid as of right now that so called vet will be Radko who will be 27 this summer.

 

Is it the ideal Kimmo vet i would say no.

 

But it will have to do till Hextall finds another.

 

There are options out there.  

 

Hextall's going to have a little chunk of change this summer and all he really NEEDS to acquire between then and now is a goalie (who doesn't even need to be a good one).  

 

Resigning Ghost and Stolarz (he could even trade Stolarz if he wanted) and maybe Weal are his only other responsibilities.  

 

While he won't want to blow all of his newfound cap space on a stupid big fat long term deal, I think it could make some sense for him to spend a bit on a couple of 2-3 year deals for Vets to bring some presence to this bench and locker room.

 

Ideally, I'd love to see him reach a deal to send Giroux to Ottawa between now and next September (they'll have the room) depending on if they think they're ready to push for runs now or want to wait til next year) and then go all in on signing Tavares in July 2018.  

[vis]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 I'm not in a rush to make the playoffs...I want a cup contender. If it takes a couple extra years to build it, so be it. I think we need two more quality drafts to fill in future forwards.

I'm curious what people think is a fair period within which to become a legit contender.  In your post, you say you're OK waiting a couple of years and point to the need for two more quality drafts to fill in future forwards.  So, on that basis, it seems the timeline would be at least another five years (two more quality drafts, plus, conservatively, three years for the picks from those drafts to mature into solid, contributing NHL players).

 

That seems awfully long to me, particularly bearing in mind that Hextall has been on the job already for three years.  And in his third year, the team has regressed and the play of certain players that are critical to the team's future - Giroux, Voracek (Hextall signing) and Couturier (Hextall signing) - has slid considerably from just a few years ago.  

 

Does Hextall even deserve five more years if next season looks like this one?

 

I'm not even mentioning Hextall's misses in UFA.  Even if you chalk that up to the failure of his pro scouting department, he's the bandleader of the front office and bears ultimate responsibility.

 

Hextall gets a lot of praise for the things he hasn't done.  He hasn't traded picks or young players and he hasn't gambled big money in UFA (how could he?).  But, other than drafting, what moves has actually made that deserve praise?

 

By the way, I do think, on balance, Hextall's approach has been good.  Though, I'm not sure he could really take another approach.  But he's got to realize that the clock is ticking.  Imo, he deserved two years of being fairly free of criticism given the state of the team when he took over.  This third year was important and one in which it should have become apparent that the team was moving in the right direction.  But here we are.  When should Hextall, rightfully, start drawing some heat?

 

All that said, the silver lining is that it should be crystal clear to Hextall that he should be a seller at the deadline.  If all we end up with is Streit for a pick, then I think he will have failed at the deadline.  Let's hope that's not the case.

[murraycraven]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

From what?  

Competing for top seeding and deep playoff runs I hope.

 

I agree if so.    The playoffs should be happening now. They're simply not this bad and I'm concerned about that. 

 

Either way Giroux needs to go.  

 

 

Correct....   I dont see them being a contender in a few years but if things pan out with the prospects I could see them being a legit team towards the five year mark.  

 

A lot of things are going to depend on how this plays out:  Is the Core going to produce?  Is G really done?   Will we have legit forwards in the pipeline.... 

 

there is a lot that is unknown right now.

[King Knut]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Who knows this guy could be in the system already his name is Lindblom.

 

Dude has lit the SHL up this year last time a forward this young did that his name was Peter Forsberg (sure Peter did so at 19) but Oskar did just turn 20 in August. 

 

Just saying remain patient i think Ron has a plan.

 

At least Lindblom can play in the AHL next year.  

I'm also excited for Rubtsov, but he's still 18.  

There's talk that he could make the team next year, but there really won't be any room for him. 

 

It's possible if he's just DAZZLING in camp they could give him a try like they did with TK this year and make him the 3C with Schenn and maybe Weal or Read (whichever is protected/survives the vegas draft).  But I just don't see them going that route again unless they really have holes after this season.  

 

Next year's top 6 will look pretty much the same (with the possible inclusion of Lindblom at some point)  

 

I could see maybe extending Lyubimov and Weal or Cousins, but the chances are that Vegas will be taking Read, Cousins, Weal or Laughton.  If Christmas comes in June, they'll take Weise, but I doubt it.  

 

The Flyers can protect one of them (Cousins or Weal, I'm sure).  

 

 

 

[murraycraven]

6 minutes ago, vis said:

I'm curious what people think is a fair period within which to become a legit contender.  In your post, you say you're OK waiting a couple of years and point to the need for two more quality drafts to fill in future forwards.  So, on that basis, it seems the timeline would be at least another five years (two more quality drafts, plus, conservatively, three years for the picks from those drafts to mature into solid, contributing NHL players).

 

That seems awfully long to me, particularly bearing in mind that Hextall has been on the job already for three years.  And in his third year, the team has regressed and the play of certain players that are critical to the team's future - Giroux, Voracek (Hextall signing) and Couturier (Hextall signing) - has slid considerably from just a few years ago.  

 

Does Hextall even deserve five more years if next season looks like this one?

 

I'm not even mentioning Hextall's misses in UFA.  Even if you chalk that up to the failure of his pro scouting department, he's the bandleader of the front office and bears ultimate responsibility.

 

Hextall gets a lot of praise for the things he hasn't done.  He hasn't traded picks or young players and he hasn't gambled big money in UFA (how could he?).  But, other than drafting, what moves has actually made that deserve praise?

 

By the way, I do think, on balance, Hextall's approach has been good.  Though, I'm not sure he could really take another approach.  But he's got to realize that the clock is ticking.  Imo, he deserved two years of being fairly free of criticism given the state of the team when he took over.  This third year was important and one in which it should have become apparent that the team was moving in the right direction.  But here we are.  When should Hextall, rightfully, start drawing some heat?

 

All that said, the silver lining is that it should be crystal clear to Hextall that he should be a seller at the deadline.  If all we end up with is Streit for a pick, then I think he will have failed at the deadline.  Let's hope that's not the case.

 

 

great post!   You just summed up everything I feel about this Team and Hextall....

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I'm also excited for Rubtsov, but he's still 18.

 

 

He too can play in the AHL next year because he was drafted out of the MHL. Not saying he would go to the AHL but he can.

 

But you never know he could join the Phantoms next year form the Russian trio center Fazleev and Vorobyov that would be a sweet line.

 

Some nice speed, skill and size on that line..all over 6 foot tall. Who knows.......

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=312227

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=285679

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=231738

 

 

[RJ8812]

34 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

He can sign Bishop on 7/1 if that's how he feels, but to me the only reason to have Bishop now is so you fulfill the requirements of exposing a goalie.  

 

Trade Mason and Neuwirth if you can just to get something for them (4th, 5th rounders at this point?)  

 

Stolarz, Lyon, Sandstrom, Hart...  The Flyers could use a Bishop type for the next year, but seriously, they might as well start playing these kids now to see what the hell they've got.   Obviously Sandstrom will be a Phantom next year and in all Likeliehood, Hart will stay in Juniors for another year.  

 

But Lyon and Stolarz need to get (more) NHL minutes next year.  Considering how bad the team is now, I'd be willing to let the team ride with them and give Sandstrom a ton of AHL minutes.

 

They're going to be even worse next year unless Hextall pulls off a miracle (and it doesn't appear that he's interested).  So I'd just as soon get these kids the minutes they need to get some experience and show us what they've got.  

 

They need someone to expose, for sure.  

But I don't need him to be a viable starter.  

 

Whoever it is needs to be treated as if his career is 2 years from over and that he'll be passing the baton.

 

I'm terrified that they're going to bring Mason back.

 

 

You can't just throw a rookie goalie in there and think he's going to win the starters position. That's how you kill their development. Lyon probably doesnt have an NHL future, and Stolarz still has not proven he can stick in the NHL. Yes, he played well in his 3 games this season, but ever since then, he's been mediocre in the AHL. I'm all for giving Stolarz a shot next year as the back-up, he should be there, but you need another goalie with him who can at least start as the #1 goalie. People bitch about bringing Mason back, but honestly, he's probably our only option right now. There's nothing else feasible via free agency. We can get him signed to a short term, reasonably priced deal.

[OccamsRazor]

 

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, vis said:

I'm curious what people think is a fair period within which to become a legit contender.  In your post, you say you're OK waiting a couple of years and point to the need for two more quality drafts to fill in future forwards.  So, on that basis, it seems the timeline would be at least another five years (two more quality drafts, plus, conservatively, three years for the picks from those drafts to mature into solid, contributing NHL players).

 

That seems awfully long to me, particularly bearing in mind that Hextall has been on the job already for three years.  And in his third year, the team has regressed and the play of certain players that are critical to the team's future - Giroux, Voracek (Hextall signing) and Couturier (Hextall signing) - has slid considerably from just a few years ago.  

 

Does Hextall even deserve five more years if next season looks like this one?

 

I'm not even mentioning Hextall's misses in UFA.  Even if you chalk that up to the failure of his pro scouting department, he's the bandleader of the front office and bears ultimate responsibility.

 

Hextall gets a lot of praise for the things he hasn't done.  He hasn't traded picks or young players and he hasn't gambled big money in UFA (how could he?).  But, other than drafting, what moves has actually made that deserve praise?

 

By the way, I do think, on balance, Hextall's approach has been good.  Though, I'm not sure he could really take another approach.  But he's got to realize that the clock is ticking.  Imo, he deserved two years of being fairly free of criticism given the state of the team when he took over.  This third year was important and one in which it should have become apparent that the team was moving in the right direction.  But here we are.  When should Hextall, rightfully, start drawing some heat?

 

All that said, the silver lining is that it should be crystal clear to Hextall that he should be a seller at the deadline.  If all we end up with is Streit for a pick, then I think he will have failed at the deadline.  Let's hope that's not the case.

 

 

Hextall definitely does NOT have 5 more years to keep his job.  

 

Building through the draft like that and expecting sincere NHL talent to come from 2 years of drafts just isn't a real plan.  It's like balancing your budget hoping you win at least the 2nd or 3rd prize in the power ball for two years.  The odds just aren't there to make it work. 

 

Cousins, Weal, Laughton...  all fairly well touted strong young talent.  AND They seem destined to be very acceptable 3rd and 4th liners.  

 

I agree with you on Hextall's praise and lack of big signings and only trading to unload players.  He simply hasn't had the ability to do anything else.  

 

This is the first year He'll be able to bring in anyone really.  Will he?  or will he stand pat?  

 

Hextall's situation right now is compounded by Giroux looking just god awful.  That's now a situation that will need to be addressed.  

 

Hextall has to look into his crystal ball and try to see if Giroux has it in him to come out of it or if he needs to talk Claude into waiving his NTC now (if it already isn't too late).  

 

To me, Hextall ensures his roll as Miracle worker if he can move Claude and Bring in a replacement sometime in the next two years in order to be competitive by the time the kids (SHOULD) be ready to contribute in a consistent and mature way.  

 

To me Tavares seems like the perfect choice for this.  

 

Jake will be 30, Simmer 31 (and in a contract year), Schenn 27, Coots 26.  

I'm not as worried about Jake and Simmer (because they look to still have fight and desire and ability) and my feelings on Coots and Schenn are fairly well documented.

 

That's the makings of a core in it's prime with a good balance of youth and vets.

 

If they can have a 28 year old Tavares wearing the C I think they'll be golden.

 

A 31 year old Giroux wouldn't be anything to shake a stick at if he rebounded.  But the guy looks lost in the woods right now.  Not sure how he's finding his way out without help.  Which is why I say that IF they're doubling down on Giroux bouncing back, they need to give him the help he needs now in the form of a vet with competititve grit and who's still got some skill to help set the tone (AKA Justin Williams).  

 

But really, If I'm hextall, right now I'm asking Giroux to consider waiving and on the phone with Ottawa trying to convince both of them to go win a few cups while I get my crap together with the Flyers prospects and start preparing offers for Captain Jack.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vis]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Smokescreen!!

 

Showcase!!

 

Probably neither, in which case I also 

 

 

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

He too can play in the AHL next year because he was drafted out of the MHL. Not saying he would go to the AHL but he can.

 

But you never know he could join the Phantoms next year form the Russian trio center Fazleev and Vorobyov that would be a sweet line.

 

Some nice speed, skill and size on that line..all over 6 foot tall. Who knows.......

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=312227

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=285679

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=231738

 

 

 

Oh interesting.  I didn't realize the 20 year old rule was just for Canadian Junior leagues.  Good to know.  

 

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, vis said:

Smokescreen!!

 

Showcase!!

 

Probably neither, in which case I also 

 

 

 

Yeah.  It mostly just means that the requisite number of games has passed for Hakstol's short term amnesia to kick in enough to convince him that maybe just maybe both his goalies aren't crappy this year.  

 

 

[vis]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

This is the first year He'll be able to bring in anyone really.  Will he?  or will he stand pat?  

 

Big offseason for Hextall.  He's got some $$$ to use and roster spots to fill.

 

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

To me Tavares seems like the perfect choice for this.

 

Sure, sign me up.  But at what cost?  Don't think you could afford him, Giroux and Voracek.

 

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

But really, If I'm hextall, right now I'm asking Giroux to consider waiving and on the phone with Ottawa trying to convince both of them to go win a few cups while I get my crap together with the Flyers prospects and start preparing offers for Captain Jack.

Thought about Ottawa as well.  That's a big contract for a team like that to swallow.  Sure we'd have to take back Bobby Ryan.

[murraycraven]

12 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Hextall's situation right now is compounded by Giroux looking just god awful.  That's now a situation that will need to be addressed.  

 

 

So here is the question for the magic 8 ball:  Do you think he is trade-able right now?  Would a Team be willing to take on that contract?   I would say no so we are going to have to take back something that is ugly or we are going to have to pay a large portion of his contract to get a deal done.   I dont think this is as easy as saying " get G to waive his NMC and trade him."

 

Why would a GM want to take on that contract with his play?

[OccamsRazor]

 

Man you'd have to think if this guy is drawing interest Streit and MDZ surely have to be. Ron must be holding out for max payment...which i would be ok with as long as they are moved.......

[OccamsRazor]

 

A lot of maneuvering still going on...