King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 26 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: You can't just throw a rookie goalie in there and think he's going to win the starters position. That's how you kill their development. Lyon probably doesnt have an NHL future, and Stolarz still has not proven he can stick in the NHL. Yes, he played well in his 3 games this season, but ever since then, he's been mediocre in the AHL. I'm all for giving Stolarz a shot next year as the back-up, he should be there, but you need another goalie with him who can at least start as the #1 goalie. People bitch about bringing Mason back, but honestly, he's probably our only option right now. There's nothing else feasible via free agency. We can get him signed to a short term, reasonably priced deal. I can think exactly that if there is no one to win it from. Stolarz is going to be 24 next year. Lyon 25. WHAT DEVELOPMENT AM I KILLING? If they're not ready, they're never going to be. If Lyon is never going to be an NHL goalie, then what's it matter if we kill his development. Murray is 22. Was his development killed this year? This guys aren't an 19 year old Rick DiPietro playing 60 games. They're grown ass men. Stolarz has been playing in the AHL for several seasons. If he's not going to be a goo starter next year, then so be it. Better we know ASAP. Mason should definitely NOT be back next year and the fact of the matter is that while there is probably nothing great in Free Agency (Bishop will be the best), there actually will be the potential for A LOT OF MOVEMENT via trades between now and the Vegas draft. There are a TON of teams out there at risk of losing a viable starter for ZILCH to vegas just because either they have to protect a vet with an NMC or because they have two good goalies and have to expose one. The Flyers are actually in the enviable position of being a buyer in this market. This (combined with their crappy seasons) is what is going to make Mason and Neuwirth's UFA years rather non-lucrative for them. These teams won't necessarily be making deadline deals as many of them will want their goalie options for cup runs (Blackhawks, Penguins, Bruins, Stars, Rangers, etc) but come the end of June they'll be making plenty of calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, murraycraven said: So here is the question for the magic 8 ball: Do you think he is trade-able right now? Would a Team be willing to take on that contract? I would say no so we are going to have to take back something that is ugly or we are going to have to pay a large portion of his contract to get a deal done. I dont think this is as easy as saying " get G to waive his NMC and trade him." Why would a GM want to take on that contract with his play? Here's the thing. I think everyone knows Claude is incredibly talented. I honestly think the chances of him being completely toast are nil. I mean that honestly. I think the chances are that he's just physically and emotionally drained and incapable of providing what this team needs of him. For 6 years he's had to skate the entire length of the ice many times every shift. he's had to make defensive plays, transition plays and offensive plays and he's gotten little to no viable help and at this point I don't think he has any trust or hope in the coach or system (such as it is) either. So Why would a team trade for him? Because if you're looking to start a team from scratch and have him carry it, he's not there and probably can't do it. However if you're looking to have him step into an already great situation and push them over the competitive edge, I genuinely think we would all see the Claude Giroux of old we all miss so much. I DON'T think Claude is in a VLC situation where injuries and age have made the game pass him by. I think he's currently on a terrible team with a bunch of mismatched skil-sets and non-complimentary players. I think if you put him into the mix for Ottawa, not only does he come alive again, but they quite likely win multiple cups with him and are one of the top teams in the league for the next 4 years or more. UNLESS Hextall knows something about Claude physically. Long story short is that I think on the RIGHT TEAM, Giroux could have a second wind to his career similar to what Steve Yzerman or Joey Sakic had where his complete game becomes the ultimate asset. The problem is that Yzerman and Sakic were both on FANTASTIC MATURE TEAMS ready to roll when they leaned off the scoring first mentality and Giroux is on a team at least 3 years away from competing... STILL. The timing is bad. Put him on the Senators now, take some of the pressure of the entire team's success being on HIS shoulders alone and watch him blossom and bloom again. Maybe not as a 93 point scorer (but frankly, maybe... they're much better than we are). But definitely as a contributing asset. Turris' contract is up next year. I think Ottawa does it for Kyle straight up. With the Emergence of Stone, Hoffman, Brassard, Dzingel and Smith, they have a ton of options. The worst case scenario is that they ask us to take a portion of Bobby Ryan's contract off their hands (which is up the same year Giroux's is and already costs a million per year less). In a year you just throw Giroux's 8 million at Tavares and you've got a captain in his prime and a supporting cast that's hopefully aged and ready to roll itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter puck Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Wow phly must be loving all this g is suk talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 47 minutes ago, murraycraven said: So here is the question for the magic 8 ball: Do you think he is trade-able right now? Would a Team be willing to take on that contract? I would say no so we are going to have to take back something that is ugly or we are going to have to pay a large portion of his contract to get a deal done. I dont think this is as easy as saying " get G to waive his NMC and trade him." Why would a GM want to take on that contract with his play? Sorry this will be shorter. In addition, Ottawa currently has the 22nd ranked PP in the league despite having Phaneuf and Karlson on the points. To me it feels like adding Giroux up front is exactly what that team needs, especially on the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 32 minutes ago, peter puck said: Wow phly must be loving all this g is suk talk. I think we're just concerned. Something definitely looks horribly off with him and we're paying him 8.25 million for another 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1 hour ago, vis said: Big offseason for Hextall. He's got some $$$ to use and roster spots to fill. Sure, sign me up. But at what cost? Don't think you could afford him, Giroux and Voracek. Thought about Ottawa as well. That's a big contract for a team like that to swallow. Sure we'd have to take back Bobby Ryan. I just don't see him having that many roster spots to fill actually. I'd like to see ONE vet D man and frankly Justin Williams or if they want to get spend Acquiring Tavares is contingent on trading Giroux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Fair enough. 47 minutes ago, King Knut said: I just don't see him having that many roster spots to fill actually. I'd like to see ONE vet D man and frankly Justin Williams or if they want to get spend Acquiring Tavares is contingent on trading Giroux. I guess your point is that Streit is really the only d-man roster spot to fill since MDZ and Schultz are scratches. I do think they need to find a center and winger for the top six. They will lose someone in the expansion draft. Perhaps Read. Not sure if they have any forwards ready to come up. He has to deal with the goalie situation. To me, that's a good bit of work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, vis said: Fair enough. I guess your point is that Streit is really the only d-man roster spot to fill since MDZ and Schultz are scratches. I do think they need to find a center and winger for the top six. They will lose someone in the expansion draft. Perhaps Read. Not sure if they have any forwards ready to come up. He has to deal with the goalie situation. To me, that's a good bit of work to do. My only real point was that they COULD choose to fill those roles, but they don't HAVE to. I want a Vet stay at home D man and a LW, but I'd almost want a Veteran presence more than the LW. I don't know that the LW is a definite need for next year. I don't see them getting a whole lot better next year and would rather see Morin, Sanheim and Hagg get chances at playing in the NHL while they're all still waiver exempt. I'd like a veteran stay at home guy to be around to be a guiding force for the likes of Morin and Hagg rather than just another Grossman type meh acquisition to fill out the lineup. If it was this year, Schultz would have been pretty good. We've discussed trading for Bouwmeister (so the Blues could make a contract play for Shattenkirk) or Hjalmarsson (so the Hawks can protect one of their younger guys) in other threads. Roszival, Scuderi, Oduya, Brian Campbell and Seidenberg are all oder possibilities, but probably a little too old as they're all in Schultz territory and pretty much at the end of their careers. Wideman from Calgary is out there, and others are certainly obtainable (e.g., JBow, Hjalmers) through trades considering teams will be motivated to move players for something rather than lose them outright to vegas. Seems like Sakic wants the farm for Landeskog and Duchene, so I'm disinclined to go that route now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I have said elsewhere on the board that from my vantage, we need to be in the top 10 in points by 2018-19 or it is time to move on from Hexy-Haxstol. This is year 3. The bad inheritance is moving on. It is becoming Hexy's clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 3 hours ago, King Knut said: I hope his head's okay too. And no. No one does. I wasn't bringing it up as something Myers had done wrong. It's not his fault really. I'm not even the kind who jumps on Lindros for "not keeping his head up." But I'm just thinking in draconian terms. It's a concern that could become an unfortunate liability. As a Flyers fan in particular I've watched too many heroes and captains have careers cut short by concussions. I'm hyper sensitive to it. I'm with ya on that. One of our top forward prospects (Pascal Laberge) took a brutal one earlier in the year and it's slowed him down...hopefully he rebounds. Myers has looked his old self . Crosbys had his issues...he's still arguably the best player in hockey. 3 hours ago, King Knut said: I just don't think we can be afraid of trading away the D men when we are pretty much at capacity. I understand the idea behind trading a strength for a weakness...I just don't want to trade away goalie or defence until we have a better idea what we actually have. Imagine Myers ending up the best of the bunch...on another team? 3 hours ago, King Knut said: Frankly, I'm far more concerned about GIroux right now and unloading him. If however a deal came along for a proven goal scoring and skilled 1LW, deals have to at least be considered. Always. Nobody is untouchable. Though right now Provorov is close IMO. 3 hours ago, King Knut said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I'm with ya on that. One of our top forward prospects (Pascal Laberge) took a brutal one earlier in the year and it's slowed him down...hopefully he rebounds. Myers has looked his old self . Crosbys had his issues...he's still arguably the best player in hockey. I understand the idea behind trading a strength for a weakness...I just don't want to trade away goalie or defence until we have a better idea what we actually have. Imagine Myers ending up the best of the bunch...on another team? Always. Nobody is untouchable. Though right now Provorov is close IMO. I can't imagine much in this league I'd be thrilled to trade Provo for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, flyer4ever said: In typical Flyer fashion they hold on to diminishing players until they are worth nothing. The drive to mediocrity consumes the front office. Giroux is a future buyout, Streit is maybe a 3rd round pick, and so on and so on. BITFU. I agree totally. Flyers seem scared to move players that have shown any sort of success in their careers. If you look at impactful trades around the league forever, each team gives up something that they think is valuable. (Most) GMs aren't stupid...they're not going to give you something without getting something of value in return. It's all about finding the right fit. On the flip side, some people are afraid to move players that have potential to be good players. I understand trying to figure out what you have before you deal anyone, but if you think the right fit is out there for your team and you have some prospects in your pocket, don't be afraid to make the move. As long as you think that player will give you 5 or more years of good hockey, I don't care if you gave up a star in the making. Giroux might go on to be the league MVP for the next 5 years in ottawa or Montreal. He might put up 30 points each year wherever he goes...we just don't know. What we do know is that he makes over $8m and isn't doing anything with the team that he is on. The real talent isn't even on the team yet, and we'll have to wait 3 or 4 years for that talent to become fully settled in. We have to assume Giroux will decline even more in those years. If Hextall's plan is being implemented as expected, he should have dealt giroux the second he took over. He gambled on Giroux being a star until his plan came together now. I think he lost that gamble, and now giroux is not going to be easy to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, vis said: I'm curious what people think is a fair period within which to become a legit contender. In your post, you say you're OK waiting a couple of years and point to the need for two more quality drafts to fill in future forwards. So, on that basis, it seems the timeline would be at least another five years (two more quality drafts, plus, conservatively, three years for the picks from those drafts to mature into solid, contributing NHL players). Ya, it isn't a quick fix, that's for sure. I mean let's face it, Hextalls drafts have just started to pay off. It's not a speedy process...but the idea behind building that way is to have a constant flow of up and coming young cheap talent. 2 hours ago, vis said: That seems awfully long to me, particularly bearing in mind that Hextall has been on the job already for three years. And in his third year, the team has regressed and the play of certain players that are critical to the team's future - Giroux, Voracek (Hextall signing) and Couturier (Hextall signing) - has slid considerably from just a few years ago. Does Hextall even deserve five more years if next season looks like this one? Hextall had to spend his first couple of seasons trying to dig Philly out of the hole Holmgren put them in. Getting rid of some Immoveable contracts looked pretty good...though I think Voracek got paid for one season that was an outlier. He appears to be around a 20/40 winger which isn't worth $8 mil a year. 2 hours ago, vis said: I'm not even mentioning Hextall's misses in UFA. Even if you chalk that up to the failure of his pro scouting department, he's the bandleader of the front office and bears ultimate responsibility. I agree...he hasn't made any UFA signings that impress. 2 hours ago, vis said: Hextall gets a lot of praise for the things he hasn't done. He hasn't traded picks or young players and he hasn't gambled big money in UFA (how could he?). But, other than drafting, what moves has actually made that deserve praise? Something else he hasn't done is locked up Mason to a longterm deal. That's a good non move. Somehow I fell Homer might have. I don't think it's easy to try and build through the draft AND sign FAs. I think you need to decide whether you want to win now or build for later. I don't know if the lack of signings is actually part of the plan or not...I'm hoping it is. 2 hours ago, vis said: By the way, I do think, on balance, Hextall's approach has been good. Though, I'm not sure he could really take another approach. But he's got to realize that the clock is ticking. Imo, he deserved two years of being fairly free of criticism given the state of the team when he took over. This third year was important and one in which it should have become apparent that the team was moving in the right direction. But here we are. When should Hextall, rightfully, start drawing some heat? All that said, the silver lining is that it should be crystal clear to Hextall that he should be a seller at the deadline. If all we end up with is Streit for a pick, then I think he will have failed at the deadline. Let's hope that's not the case. Again, it'll be easier to evaluate Hextalls work when some of the likes of Sanheim/Myers/Rubtsov/Lindblom/Hart/Sandstrom/Laberge/Aube-Kubel/Allison etc are on the team. Right now all were have to see of his drafting are Provorov and Konecny...but I like what I see. I have no problem with someone not being happy with his work as gm when it comes to free agents...how could I? At the very least I'm hoping to see him come away with a couple more 2nds and a later pick for Streit/MDZ/Shultz. Everyone wants depth at D for the playoffs. Nice to have you back fulltime on the boards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 55 minutes ago, icehole said: Flyers seem scared to move players that have shown any sort of success in their careers. You mean like the core of the Team (and Captain) - IE: Richards and Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, murraycraven said: You mean like the core of the Team (and Captain) - IE: Richards and Carter You forgot Pavel Brendl and Juri Dopita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthbal Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Not sure if anyone has seen this... But I just read it on twitter... How much of it is truth I cannot say... Hockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr 25m25 minutes ago #BreakingNews #Habs and #Flyers talking. #Canadiens have sight set on Claude Giroux. Being told talks ongoing for past 10 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 47 minutes ago, murraycraven said: You mean like the core of the Team (and Captain) - IE: Richards and Carter That's a good example of doing it how it should be done. It looks bad because those two won 2 cups, but I think the flyers won that trade by being proactive. Simmonds and Schenn for Richards? Simmonds is the best player on the team and schenn is definitely doing more than Richards right now. Was it voracek for Carter straight up or was the couturier pick in there too. They might have won that deal if they wouldn't have picked you-know-who with that pick. I'm still holding out that voracek is better than what we see now. Either way, I don't mind Holmgren making that trade. Also, he gave up big contracts to get youth! This is holmgren we're talking about here. Some would say he never did something so crazy like that, but it really did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Well there goes Jordy Benn to Montreal so another Dman off the boards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 The Leafs announced they have acquired F Brian Boyle from Tampa in exchange for F Byron Froese and a 2nd round draft pick in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Things are heating up Burrows to Sens for Dahlen and then he signs 2 year extension... ...waiting to see the Flyers on the ticker shipping someone out soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, icehole said: Either way, I don't mind Holmgren making that trade. Also, he gave up big contracts to get youth! This is holmgren we're talking about here. Some would say he never did something so crazy like that, but it really did happen. Yup he made a move aimed at not winning now, sacrificing the now for the future. Then turned around and made a cap-busting signing of a goalie in order to win now. Later trading away a young, promising goalie the next offseason. How long did it take that young, promising goalie to win a Vezina? Oh right, one year. The craziness wasn't in trading Richards and Carter (The Richards trade was pretty prescient), it was in being so schizophrenic as to make a move to rebuild and then make a conflicting win now move at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I think the russian goalie roulette was Snider driving the bus, we'll never know. The rest of it is the front office paranoia about being mediocre and sneaking into the playoffs. I seriously will never understand how Clarke, Holmgren and Hextall have allowed the current team to be full of very uncombative, uncompeting players. I know the rules have changed, but you can still battle for pucks and get involved when a teammate gets jumped. The game in Edmonton was disgusting. There was absolutely no pushback. And the current scenario with players going through the motions with no consequence is equally disgusting. I'm sure there are guys in LV who would at least try and be proud to wear the uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poconono Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Dear Flyers, Please return Jordan Weal back to us in Allentown. You don't know how to use him up there in Philly anyhow. The Phantoms are a completely different team without him. Losers of 5 of the last seven games. We"ve fallen from second to fourth place now. You're going nowhere. There's still a chance to finally make the playoffs here in the Lehigh Valley. Throw in Nick Cousins too please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hexy, the trade deadline started today. LET'S GO. SEEELLLLL! Throw in a G and Jake trade for Landeskog and Duchene deal. Trade Neuvirth for a pick and bring up Stolarz. I'm not in the "trade Simmonds" camp unless Hextall gets blown away by an offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 21 minutes ago, FD19372 said: Hexy, the trade deadline started today. LET'S GO. SEEELLLLL! Throw in a G and Jake trade for Landeskog and Duchene deal. Trade Neuvirth for a pick and bring up Stolarz. I'm not in the "trade Simmonds" camp unless Hextall gets blown away by an offer. good grief, drink a beer and watch Swamp People or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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