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Howie58

Sielski's Take on Team: He is Reading Us!

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Greetings:

 

Mike Sielski tends to be a little more candid than Carchidi or Donnelson. This piece captures the sentiments of the Board. I think his comments on Giroux and where this team is in the life-cycle are spot on.

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Yeah, we have D and G prospects  But the forwards are in disarray. I have to wonder if anyone would take a bite on Giroux?  Jeepers...we may have another Vinny problem...even worse.  If we could trade Simmonds or Voracek for prospects I'd say yes, throw in the towel, and move on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Again why if we need forwards so bad as you say Howie then why trade Simmonds away??????

 

He's the only forward on the team that is doing well, I just do not get the logic at times.

 

No offense to you your not the only one the keeps on repeating over and over again that we have no forwards but in a way to rectify the situation is to trade our only forward that is playing the way he's supposed to..... Why?

Edited by Philly29

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4 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

Again why if we need forwards so bad as you say Howie then why trade Simmonds away??????

 

He's the only forward on the team that is doing well, I just do not get the logic at times.

 

No offense to you your not the only one the keeps on repeating over and over again that we have no forwards but in a way to rectify the situation is to trade our only forward that is playing the way he's supposed to..... Why?

I love Simmonds. But he will have no supporting cast.  He may age rapidly.  If we got a first and a good prospect, I'd say move on.  Again--it is not "anti-Simmonds." It is a matter of coordinated development.  We have some good D and G prospects. But our current forwards may not be that good...and they are not youngsters.

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I hear you and I was not attacking you at all. That being said I understand about aging process but all great teams half to have a vet presence. You can't have a team with all young guns you half to have that tough veteran leadership presence.

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Philly:

 

You make a good point on leadership.  And I think Simmonds would be great. But desperate times may call for semi-desperate measures.  Sadly, I think G and V, particularly G, may be unmovable. V could lead.  G...we have seen where that goes.  By the way, I think Provorov and Konecny could be there in a year or two.  

 

No harm no foul.  I view this board as an extended family!  Even families have squabbles...and this is friendly. 

 

 

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The Flyers have not had a realistic competitive team since 2010 when they gassed the captain and the best player. For some reason they haven't had the balls to make a meaningful trade since then. I agree with the author, everyone on this roster except #'s 9&11 are up for grabs. Get whatever you can get for them. You get a bunch of picks and young kids who want to be in the league, and you change the obviously broken culture in the dressing room and throughout the organization. Since the inception of the salary cap the teams that bought their teams have mostly gone south. Toronto seems to have figured it out, hopefully the Flyers will this week. 2 or 3 years with multiple top draft picks is the only way out of this.

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11 hours ago, Philly29 said:

Again why if we need forwards so bad as you say Howie then why trade Simmonds away??????

 

He's the only forward on the team that is doing well, I just do not get the logic at times.

 

No offense to you your not the only one the keeps on repeating over and over again that we have no forwards but in a way to rectify the situation is to trade our only forward that is playing the way he's supposed to..... Why?

 

The trading of Simmonds would be fine because he's the player that could land a goldmine package. A power forward that it's still signed to a team friendly deal. Plus, he's going to be 29 when the contract ends and he's going to want to get paid and he'll be at an age when power forwards usually see a drop in their performance. Are you willing to pay $7+ million over the next 8 years for Simmonds because that's what it will cost. I'd rather see Hextall start a bidding war for Simmonds and land a ridiculous package for him. Let some franchise go nuts and pillage their system for him.

Edited by BobbyClarkeFan16
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The question is whether or not Giroux's drop off statistically can be attributed to a decline in play due to getting older/injuries catching up or if the talent around him is just not good enough.  His best year was playing with Jagr and Hartnell.  I didn't have a problem getting rid of Jagr or even Hartnell.  The problem is they never replaced either with equally offensively capable forwards.  Raffl's 20 goal season was a one year wonder.  Read's goal scoring has completely fallen off the face of the earth.  They have 2, 3rd line centers in Schenn and Couturier.  One of which is a PP specialist and the other is a defensive specialist.  Neither are particular good or offensively creative 5v5.  I also think our lousy defense plays into the struggles offensively and scoring 5v5 because our forwards have to focus so much on getting back defensively rather than being able to trust the D.  They can't often be in a position in the defensive zone where they can quickly transition to offense and look for odd man rushes.  I'm not saying Giroux and Voracek should be considered untradeable but I think there are bigger issues that need to be resolved first.    

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19 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I love Simmonds. But he will have no supporting cast.  He may age rapidly.  If we got a first and a good prospect, I'd say move on.  Again--it is not "anti-Simmonds." It is a matter of coordinated development.  We have some good D and G prospects. But our current forwards may not be that good...and they are not youngsters.

Agree with you all the way.  Simmonds is definitely the best player on the team right now, but by the time this organization finally wakes up and initiates a true rebuild, he'll be well into his thirties.  You gotta give up something to get something in a trade.

 

And even though I doubt he's bring back much in a trade, I'd certainly seriously consider dealing Couts.  According to NHL Radio most of the contenders are looking for defensive centermen right now.  Just unloading his salary would be a plus.

Edited by Poconono

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6 minutes ago, Poconono said:

And even though I doubt he's bring back much in a trade, I'd certainly seriously consider dealing Couts.  According to NHL Radio most of the contenders are looking for defensive centermen right now.  Just unloading his salary would be a plus.

 

Well by all means, let's sell low on him then...

 

 

As of today #14 is viewed as a top 5 3rd line centerman.

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his mates on the list are

Cody Eakin 3.8 mil.

Riley Sheahan 2.0 mil.

Nick Bonino 1.9 mil

Kevin Hays 2.6 mil.

Sean Couturier 1.75 mil.  

His salary will become a 4.3 million dollar cap hit until 2021-22. since he signed his extension.

So Couturier will be the highest paid of this bunch, but he compares well with Cody Eakin and will be making 500k more per year vs the cap.  It's an overpayment but not of Andrew MacDonald proportions.

 

I don't see merit in the rush to get rid of his salary and what it accomplishes especially when you seem to think the return will be not great.

His salary isn't "killing the team" now and won't be killing the team in 4 years when his cap hit will be middle of the pack and he will be producing at about the same clip, which will most likely keep him in the upper tier of 3rd line centerman.

 

 

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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:50 PM, flyer4ever said:

The Flyers have not had a realistic competitive team since 2010 when they gassed the captain and the best player. For some reason they haven't had the balls to make a meaningful trade since then. I agree with the author, everyone on this roster except #'s 9&11 are up for grabs. Get whatever you can get for them. You get a bunch of picks and young kids who want to be in the league, and you change the obviously broken culture in the dressing room and throughout the organization. Since the inception of the salary cap the teams that bought their teams have mostly gone south. Toronto seems to have figured it out, hopefully the Flyers will this week. 2 or 3 years with multiple top draft picks is the only way out of this.

I wouldn't say that Toronto figured out, they luck out in getting the 1st overall last year and drafting Matthews who is a franchise player and hiring Babcock didn't hurt either. But they still have a long way to go. Hexie has to get rid of his UFAs at the deadline and get draft picks back and go from there. Maybe this summer make a big trade that might involve Giroux.

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Toronto did figure it out. They ensured a high lottery pick by trading away a number of assets for picks, which also ensured falling up the draft board. What Hextall is doing is not a rebuild, its a wallow in mediocrity. If you are going to rebuild, then f*&^king rebuild. This finish 8th crap is just that, crap.

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14 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Toronto did figure it out. They ensured a high lottery pick by trading away a number of assets for picks, which also ensured falling up the draft board. What Hextall is doing is not a rebuild, its a wallow in mediocrity. If you are going to rebuild, then f*&^king rebuild. This finish 8th crap is just that, crap.

 

 

While I agree they also got damn lucky to get a Matthews type player...    But, I concur with the general premise of your email.   Trying to rebuild and win at the same time makes it that much harder - this year we are in neutral and maybe even a step back from last year. 

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53 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Toronto did figure it out. They ensured a high lottery pick by trading away a number of assets for picks, which also ensured falling up the draft board. What Hextall is doing is not a rebuild, its a wallow in mediocrity. If you are going to rebuild, then f*&^king rebuild. This finish 8th crap is just that, crap.

 

Do you not think Hextall would like to blow it up? It's not his call on blowing it up - it's Comcast and right now, they don't want to blow it up. Hextall's hands are tied. That's why I said he's got the hardest job in hockey because he doesn't have the luxury of being able to blow it up and start from scratch. He's got a ridiculous mandate of keeping the team competitive and retooling on the fly. I feel for the man because if he was given the mandate to blow it up when he first took over, the Flyers would probably be further ahead than where they are right now.

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4 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

I wouldn't say that Toronto figured out, they luck out in getting the 1st overall last year and drafting Matthews who is a franchise player and hiring Babcock didn't hurt either. But they still have a long way to go. Hexie has to get rid of his UFAs at the deadline and get draft picks back and go from there. Maybe this summer make a big trade that might involve Giroux.

 

Mike Babcock has done an incredible job of getting all the players to buy into his system. You can have all the number picks in the world, but if they won't buy into your system, it's not going to help. Edmonton is a great example of that. There's a reason why guys like Yakupov, Hall, etc...have been moved. Yes, getting a first overall pick like Matthews helps, but it also helps having a world class coach and everyone buying into what he's selling. And in fairness, there's some real good talent in Toronto as well. They've drafted smart, traded well and signed good free agents.

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4 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

I wouldn't say that Toronto figured out, they luck out in getting the 1st overall last year and drafting Matthews who is a franchise player and hiring Babcock didn't hurt either.

 

So basically... they figured it out. :)

 

They hired a highly respected coach with a proven track record, and they did their best to bottom out last year (finishing 30th) and giving themselves the best opportunity to win the draft lottery. It's no accident.

 

Fans in Toronto have wanted a proper rebuild for years and the team would previously soldier on with a rotten core and finish in the middle of the standings every year. Finishing 9th in your conference is the worst place you can finish in the NHL. Being #1 or #30 is 1000x better than finishing 9th.

 

It took the Leafs more than a decade to finally figure out how the draft lottery worked and to stop being a rookie-less franchise. All they had to do was watch Pittsburgh draft Crosby, Washington draft Ovechkin, Chicago draft Toews and Kane etc.... It isn't a fluke. You finish at the bottom and you will get top draft picks. You finish in the middle and you get nothing.  

 

 

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Wash, Rinse, Repeat

 

A few years back with Richards, Carter and the Center City party boys, the same theme ruled the threads, "Blow it up"! "Fire the Coach!", "Fire the GM", "blame bob Clarke and Ed Snider".

 

Seems to me they did blow it up only to watch Carter and Richards hoist a cup under the GM who now runes things here. I get the argument about guys getting older and injuries (wash, rinse, repeat), and the contracts getting pricey. But it seems to me that the franchise has some prospects coming and are jettisoning the dead weight, Mark Streit. I don't see any sense in trading away Simmonds, Giroux or Voracek. What are you going to get in return? That's right, draft picks. Then we can all argue about how long it will take them to make the big club and how it will be time to move Ghost, Konecny and Provorov before they get too old or injured, or before they ask for too much money.

 

Moves needs to be made. I agree. But trading away your three best players when you have a mediocre defense and two jokes playing goal is a little premature

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      The trading of Simmonds would be fine because he's the player that could land a goldmine package. A power forward that it's still signed to a team friendly deal. Plus, he's going to be 29 when the contract ends and he's going to want to get paid and he'll be at an age when power forwards usually see a drop in their performance. Are you willing to pay $7+ million over the next 8 years for Simmonds because that's what it will cost. I'd rather see Hextall start a bidding war for Simmonds and land a
    • 2
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      Philly:   You make a good point on leadership.  And I think Simmonds would be great. But desperate times may call for semi-desperate measures.  Sadly, I think G and V, particularly G, may be unmovable. V could lead.  G...we have seen where that goes.  By the way, I think Provorov and Konecny could be there in a year or two.     No harm no foul.  I view this board as an extended family!  Even families have squabbles...and this is friendly.     
    • 2
      Post
      The Flyers have not had a realistic competitive team since 2010 when they gassed the captain and the best player. For some reason they haven't had the balls to make a meaningful trade since then. I agree with the author, everyone on this roster except #'s 9&11 are up for grabs. Get whatever you can get for them. You get a bunch of picks and young kids who want to be in the league, and you change the obviously broken culture in the dressing room and throughout the organization. Since the ince
    • 2
      Post
      The question is whether or not Giroux's drop off statistically can be attributed to a decline in play due to getting older/injuries catching up or if the talent around him is just not good enough.  His best year was playing with Jagr and Hartnell.  I didn't have a problem getting rid of Jagr or even Hartnell.  The problem is they never replaced either with equally offensively capable forwards.  Raffl's 20 goal season was a one year wonder.  Read's goal scoring has completely fallen off the face
    • 2
      Post
      Mike Babcock has done an incredible job of getting all the players to buy into his system. You can have all the number picks in the world, but if they won't buy into your system, it's not going to help. Edmonton is a great example of that. There's a reason why guys like Yakupov, Hall, etc...have been moved. Yes, getting a first overall pick like Matthews helps, but it also helps having a world class coach and everyone buying into what he's selling. And in fairness, there's some real good talent
    • 1
      Post
      Greetings:   Mike Sielski tends to be a little more candid than Carchidi or Donnelson. This piece captures the sentiments of the Board. I think his comments on Giroux and where this team is in the life-cycle are spot on. Hidden Content   Yeah, we have D and G prospects  But the forwards are in disarray. I have to wonder if anyone would take a bite on Giroux?  Jeepers...we may have another Vinny problem...even worse.

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