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Hobo

COACHING CHANGE ???

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Flyers coach has about as much emotion as a dead toad...  For those of you who see the Flyers on a regular basis, do they need a more upbeat approach and coach ?  Please give me your thoughts.  Thanks in advance.

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10 minutes ago, Hobo said:

Flyers coach has about as much emotion as a dead toad...  For those of you who see the Flyers on a regular basis, do they need a more upbeat approach and coach ?  Please give me your thoughts.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

 Welcome to the site. I don't care if Hak is so dry he makes paint peel, I care about how he matches lines, how he sets the line-up, if he is putting players in a position to succeed. He's done a good job with what he has to work with. 

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13 minutes ago, Hobo said:

Flyers coach has about as much emotion as a dead toad...  For those of you who see the Flyers on a regular basis, do they need a more upbeat approach and coach ?  Please give me your thoughts.  Thanks in advance.

 

:welcome:

 

I take it that the blue-eyed cold stare isn't an emotion?

 

Image result for dave hakstol talking to refs

 

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People dislike Hakstol, but Hextall likes him and that's all that matters. Unless he starts out next season 8-20-4, he's going nowhere and people will have to get used to it. Myself, I hate the fact that he continues to give mediocre role players like VdV and Bellemare good ice time, while he can't find a way to work a guy like Lyubimov into the lineup. As well, his infatuation with Andrew MacDonald is rather disturbing. He calls him a legit NHL defenseman and that he sees a 'very good defenseman on the ice', but his Corsi numbers indicate otherwise.

 

At the same time, the roster is a mess and his goaltenders have given him less than adequate goaltending. If they were to stop pucks at .915 rate, this club is in the playoffs. No doubt in my mind about it. While goals against average is indicative of team play, save percentage is indicative of individual play and Mason and Neuvirth have been horrible. What's baffling is that Stolarz has been waiting in Lehigh Valley and other than two starts and basic mop up work in two other games, they haven't used him.

 

I'd like to think that this off season, Hextall has a one on one with Hakstol on what can be done to improve the team and hopefully Hextall will jettison some bodies to make way for the younger guys to break through.

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Like what was previously said, this coach is likely to be here for a few more season unless he really takes a "mondo dook". I'm not sure how I feel about that, or his emotions. Par for the course with my opinions, I feel like this team lacks emotion. I think the Capitols pushed them around and beat up on them pretty good, and did not get a response in kind. But they got a point out of it, so good for them.

 

It seems to me like Hakstol is treading water right now. I suspect there will be considerable moves at the end of the season. the team appears to be in a better position to add some players, and make room for others. Right now his comments (MacDonald) are towing the line and being supportive. I dont see MacDonald, Del Zotto, Schultz in the future, and Vandelvelde, Read and Couturier may go as well. Since the Flyers had to add a contract Goalie to the expansion draft, Neuvirth might be gone and Mason might find reserved seating on the bench.

 

 

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Changing head coaches while the team still has a hodge podge of players and not a real championship core in place = shortsightedness.

 

Really, unless Hakstol is doing some infinitely egregious coaching behind the bench, one HAS to assume he is making the most with what he has.

And if the team starts going down the road of 'carousel coaches', it may NEVER reach core championship status.

 

Hmm....this debate sounds a bit familiar though.

I seem to remember thinking it was a silly idea to replace Hakstol now than it was a couple weeks ago when some other similar topic came up.

 

At any rate, the Flyers first order of business to getting back to championship respectability was to replace the GM...done.

 

Next, the bringing in and/or promotion of young talent to not only give them their NHL legs, but to see who will stick who will not....Philly is doing that now.

 

After that, fixing the goaltending situation........that has YET to be accomplished.

 

When all that is in place, THEN we can expect Dave Hakstol to start making some plans where he can best utilize the good talent top to bottom, that he should have at that point.

 

If, and only if, it is discovered he really can't manage even good players, THEN talk of lopping off his head can commence in earnest.

 

Facial expressions? Non emotional? Not a 'rah rah' guy? Who cares!?

 

Personally, if it were my team's head coach, I wouldn't care if he stands back there with his fingers up his nose all game....so long as he manages the team right and gives them every opportunity (if they are talented enough and execute properly that is) to succeed.

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On 3/5/2017 at 3:35 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Changing head coaches while the team still has a hodge podge of players and not a real championship core in place = shortsightedness.

 

Really, unless Hakstol is doing some infinitely egregious coaching behind the bench, one HAS to assume he is making the most with what he has.

And if the team starts going down the road of 'carousel coaches', it may NEVER reach core championship status.

 

Hmm....this debate sounds a bit familiar though.

I seem to remember thinking it was a silly idea to replace Hakstol now than it was a couple weeks ago when some other similar topic came up.

 

At any rate, the Flyers first order of business to getting back to championship respectability was to replace the GM...done.

 

Next, the bringing in and/or promotion of young talent to not only give them their NHL legs, but to see who will stick who will not....Philly is doing that now.

 

After that, fixing the goaltending situation........that has YET to be accomplished.

 

When all that is in place, THEN we can expect Dave Hakstol to start making some plans where he can best utilize the good talent top to bottom, that he should have at that point.

 

If, and only if, it is discovered he really can't manage even good players, THEN talk of lopping off his head can commence in earnest.

 

Facial expressions? Non emotional? Not a 'rah rah' guy? Who cares!?

 

Personally, if it were my team's head coach, I wouldn't care if he stands back there with his fingers up his nose all game....so long as he manages the team right and gives them every opportunity (if they are talented enough and execute properly that is) to succeed.

I am not sure what "some infinitely egregious coaching" is but I think it is ridiculous to assume he is making the most with what he has.

In fact, some could argue that many players have regressed with him as their coach: Schenn, Couturier, Raffl, G, both goalies, MDZ, Ghost.....

By the way, I am not an advocate of firing Hakstol at this point but to say he is maximizing what he has is ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, caluso said:

I am not sure what "some infinitely egregious coaching" is but I think it is ridiculous to assume he is making the most with what he has.

In fact, some could argue that many players have regressed with him as their coach: Schenn, Couturier, Raffl, G, both goalies, MDZ, Ghost.....

By the way, I am not an advocate of firing Hakstol at this point but to say he is maximizing what he has is ridiculous. 

 

You may very well be right that Hakstol has not contributed to the betterment of those players.....but, consider this:

 

Those players you just mentioned, aside from Ghostisbehere, are pretty much VETERANS in the league at this stage. Do THOSE players really need a coach to hand-hold them through the tough times? Shouldn't those type players be taking the reigns and themselves contributing to the development of the team and its younger core contingent?

 

Also, the Flyers are basically in rebuild mode. Whether the ownership or fanbase wants to admit it or not....sometimes (and I am not saying those Flyers vets are necessarily guilty of this), vets are simply "disinterested", and do NOT play to thei potential in what appears to be a lost season.

 

Professional of them? No. But they are human beings and competitive players and want to be on winning teams, playing meaningful games, and have a shiny cup shaped prize possible at the end.

 

Now, one can argue all day whether, "Well, if those players executed, maybe they WOULD be playing for something".

Kinda like the chicken and the egg.

 

All I am saying is, we really don't know whether Hakstol is maximizing his players or not. He's got some very good veterans on the team, but he also has players who need to still learn to play at the NHL level, and some guys who are 'lame duck' players who just KNOW they won't be there next year....and thus may play only about 75-80% most of the time.

 

Hard to gauge Hakstol given that, I think.

As for "egregious coaching", by that I mean, continuously playing guys who are proven to NOT be effective in certain situations, or doing crazy things like putting still-green defensemen consistently against the other teams top lines...and expecting good things, then railing those young players when they don't come through.

 

Things like that. To my knowledge Hakstol can't be held to those things because he is just working with what he has...and he really has no control over how the players execute on the ice.

 

Give him a much better personnel roster, filled with young hungry players, unflappable vets, and overall, guys who WANT to be there and want to see the rebuild through, and THEN see what Hakstol does with it.

 

Again, not saying you are wrong.

Maybe in about another season or two (if Hakstol does indeed last that long), you may ultimately be proved right.

But as far as I am concerned, ANY coach should be given a longer leash if they are in a situation where there is a rebuild going on with transition on the roster being the norm.

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All in, I'd give the H-squared duo another two years to prove their mettle or move on. That's one guy's take.  My form of proof is a top-10 in points finish. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, caluso said:

I am not sure what "some infinitely egregious coaching" is but I think it is ridiculous to assume he is making the most with what he has.

In fact, some could argue that many players have regressed with him as their coach: Schenn, Couturier, Raffl, G, both goalies, MDZ, Ghost.....

By the way, I am not an advocate of firing Hakstol at this point but to say he is maximizing what he has is ridiculous. 

 

In fairness, most coaches let their assistant coaches do the coaching at practice with regards to the players. The coach lays out the game plan, the assistants ensure that players understand what the coach is asking of them. All of those players who are experiencing regression might be regressing from the direction they're getting from the assistant coaches. As I mentioned in another post, in Gord Murphy's 14 year coaching career, he's had two defenses that finished in the top 10. Every other defense he's coached has finished in the bottom 10 8 itmes and finished in the middle 4 times. That should let everyone know that Gord Murphy isn't a defense coach. The regression of the defensemen falls under his watch.

 

As for G, I've stated it before and I'll state it again - he's playing injured. He says he's 100%, but look at him skate and you can see he's labouring and wincing when he's pushing off. I'm convinced that his off season sports hernia surgery is giving him grief in that scar tissue is being torn away when he skates. Same thing happened to Ryan Getzlaf when he had the surgery and he didn't bounce back until the following season. I expect the same with Giroux.

 

Raffl is a hack. People need to get over it. He got lucky in his career to score 20 and he'll never sniff that level again. He's a great bottom six forward, but he's not a top six forward and if you're using him there, you're in a lot of trouble.

 

Schenn and Couturier could certainly use some new and different instruction. What Laperriere and Mullen have been teaching is starting to fall on deaf ears. It happens. Mullen has been in Philadelphia for quite some time. It's time for a different voice. As for Laperriere, he's never had any formal coaching experience. I really think he needed to earn his stripes first before he got his assistant job. He's really a mediocre coach and more a rah rah cheerleader kind of the guy.

 

I'm disappointed in the goaltenders. I don't blame that on Hakstol. The Flyers have a great goaltending coach in Kim Dillabaugh who was fabulous in Los Angeles. Steve Mason has a history of not listening to coaches and Michal Neuvirth has a history of being hot and cold as well. Those two guys were coming into this year with the final years on their respective deals and you'd figure they would have shown up from the get go. There was the 10 game streak, but other than that, Mason has been a major disappointment. Can't blame Hakstol for that.

 

As others have said, I'm willing to give him a period of time. Yes, I was mad earlier in the year and wanted him fired and a full house cleaning, but cooler heads prevailed. Hextall and Hakstol know what they're doing. When the talent in the pipeline makes the big club, we'll see a bigger improvement in performance. It's really about patience at this point.

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The coaching carousel has to stop. Why are fans always critiquing things like a guy's emotion, etc. The game is played and won and lost on the ice. Someone else just rattled off this team's problems and for the last 20 years the problems have been squarely on the ice. It is always a combination of bad goaltending and bad defense or, as was the case in the 90's, bad goaltending and a 1 line team. Right now, we have okay goaltending, but a combo of bad defense (but improving) and a 1 line team. We have G, Simmond, V and an up-and-coming K, and a rest of ****** no-talent forwards. 

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I don't know that Hakstol is going to be the guy to lead the Flyers to the promised land but I think it is evident that the issues that have plagued this team (slow starts, 5v5 struggles, poor defense, inconsistent goaltending, etc) is not a coaching issue.  These symptoms have carried over from regime to regime... the common denominator is the personnel.  They have made tweaks to the roster here and there but largely they have been going to war with the same group for the last 4 seasons and this collection of misfit toys is simply not talented enough to be a shoo-in playoff team let alone a contender.    

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Hakstol believes in respect and hard work. He rewards that. The players follow his lead and they will be playing on the ice. Players that don't fall in line and get with his program take a seat. Now to a fault players that are less talented may play more minutes, but he is trying to establish a method and respectability for the game. Berube was kind of this way but didn't have the coaching experience and in game history of situational-experienced decision making to back up his hockey intelligence. But don't let that fool anyone, he is a smart hockey mind, and I got what he said. Just his disciplinary choices needed to be better implemented with communication.

Hakstol is a more refined Hockey mind and has established himself as a fine teacher of the game.

He has a history of getting his teams to fire on all cylinders as the season arrives to a close, and again that is what it's looking like with this season as well.

Trust the method, stick to the process, stay on coarse is what he tells his players. Look at what was done right and continue to fix the areas of the game that aren't going well. He defended Big Mac, and I don't fault him as a coach for sticking up for his player and can appreciate that.

Ya the Mac sauce wasn't performing with the results that he should of been at, and now he is molding back to form.

I'm not a fan of his and they panicked on signing him on. But Hakstoll will be given more talent next year and when his roster is filled with 80%plus score talent on his roster than this discussion can be revisited. This was an odd year with player internal injuries. This team SHOULD be a 2.8- 3.8+ goals a game average team. Their lack of off season betterment is lacking in droves and THAT is a MAJOR problem with this team.

When Chris Therien can come in, in the next season of his pylon year and seem like he had biometric surgery and was implanted two more gears to his accellaration and top speed. Dammit you know this whole team needs a firing squad in the ass to wake up and play Hockey.This game is a privilage and not a right! Don't let that escape you for one minute. Spend a day in our wonderful posters shoes for a while and then appreciate that you get to Play, TO PLAY...the game that you loved when you were growing up, the hardships that were endured to reach this level. Don't just let it go, let it be squandered away.

                  fin.

 

 

You are the resistance.

Just keeping it real sizzlechest.

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On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:42 PM, icehole said:

 

FB_IMG_1486438630521.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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Those players you just mentioned, aside from Ghostisbehere, are pretty much VETERANS in the league at this stage. Do THOSE players really need a coach to hand-hold them through the tough times? Shouldn't those type players be taking the reigns and themselves contributing to the development of the team and its younger core contingent?

 

Are you saying that a coach only motivates / coaches inexperienced players?  Veterans or rookies, what does it matter? It is the coach's job to motivate EVERYONE and put his player's - all of his player's - in the best position possible. It is clear that this team is wildly inconsistent and not motivated to play hard for 60 minutes on most nights. Furthermore, if you only want to look at the young guys on the team, Hakstol has done a TERRIBLE job of improving their play (Provorov, notwithstanding). Couturier, Cousins, Ghost and Konecny have all regressed. Most alarming to me is how much Konecny has regressed as the season wore on; it looks as if his confidence is shot. 

 

All I am saying is, we really don't know whether Hakstol is maximizing his players or not.

 

It is CLEAR that he is not. See my initial argument: Schenn, Couturier, Read, Mason, Neuvirth, Cousins, Konecny, Ghost, Giroux have all had a disappointing years. No one has improved and most have regressed. It is very simple, Hakstol is hardly "maximizing talent"

 

Give him a much better personnel roster, filled with young hungry players, unflappable vets, and overall, guys who WANT to be there and want to see the rebuild through, and THEN see what Hakstol does with it.

 

I want to coach that team. 

 

 

 

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I may get flayed for this, but I honestly don't know too many current coaches who are truly game changers. There are a select few (Babs, Boudreau, Trots, Sutter) that I can think of off the top of my head, but that's about it. In looking at NHL coaches generally, much of the success they have is very closely related to the talent they have on the roster at a given time.

 

Take Carlyle for example. His number with in his two terms with the Ducks are pretty remarkable. His time in Toronto on the other hand... is forgettable. The difference there isn't the coach, it's the distinct lack of anything resembling talent on the Leafs roster during his time there.

 

Julien is another example imo. His good years with the Bs largely coincided with having the very best defensive core in the league and a goaltender who had some of the best numbers of any in NHL history. As the Bruins began shedding those solid dmen, the decline came around very quickly.

 

I'm not saying Haks is necessarily a great coach. Like many here, i'm really hoping to see more out of him going forward. His system seems lifeless and often very boring to me, and that may well be because it is in fact lifeless and boring. I don't see any of the few truly impactful coaches becoming available any time soon, so I see no real rush to show him the door.

 

More than likely he's just one of the standard types who need some skilled players to find success. And this is the part I really can't stress enough: The current Flyers roster has very very little in the way of true elite talent. Given that, and given that he likely isn't one of the very few abnormally effective, gamechanging coaches, it seems reasonable to expect he won't have much success until actual talent is added to the line up.

 

Unfortunately, as has been pointed out before, those truly elite players tend to not be 16-17-18 overall picks. Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Ovechkin (blah blah cups). Most teams who have done exceptionally well on a consistent basis over the last decade and change are teams who have had at least one top 1-3 pick. I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

If Edmonton starts turning heads after years of abysmal records, I would say it has rather less to do with McLellan and more to do with a certain McJesus... just sayin.

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      Changing head coaches while the team still has a hodge podge of players and not a real championship core in place = shortsightedness.   Really, unless Hakstol is doing some infinitely egregious coaching behind the bench, one HAS to assume he is making the most with what he has. And if the team starts going down the road of 'carousel coaches', it may NEVER reach core championship status.   Hmm....this debate sounds a bit familiar though. I seem to remember thinking i
    • 3
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      Welcome to the site. I don't care if Hak is so dry he makes paint peel, I care about how he matches lines, how he sets the line-up, if he is putting players in a position to succeed. He's done a good job with what he has to work with. 
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      He needs some talented players to coach.  This team in loaded with slugs.
    • 2
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      I take it that the blue-eyed cold stare isn't an emotion?    
    • 2
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      All in, I'd give the H-squared duo another two years to prove their mettle or move on. That's one guy's take.  My form of proof is a top-10 in points finish.         
    • 1
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      Like what was previously said, this coach is likely to be here for a few more season unless he really takes a "mondo dook". I'm not sure how I feel about that, or his emotions. Par for the course with my opinions, I feel like this team lacks emotion. I think the Capitols pushed them around and beat up on them pretty good, and did not get a response in kind. But they got a point out of it, so good for them.   It seems to me like Hakstol is treading water right now. I suspect there will

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