Flyers (now drafting #2 overall) and the 2017 NHL Draft (now with Poll)

[flyercanuck]

12 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

Hopefully we don't love the one the Debs pick. 

 

Hopefully, we do!  

 

[AJgoal]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

 

Hopefully, we do!  

 

 

 

Not if we're going to love one and hate the other!

[Podein25]

3 hours ago, brelic said:

2005    Marek Zagrapan        Chicoutimi Sagueneens (QMJHL)    Buffalo Sabres

 

Was Rick the Buffalo GM in 2005? 

[ruxpin]

4 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

genetic scientists would love to see that genetic makeup!

 

McCrosbyVechkin is from Aramaic meaning Fast, dizzy loser 

[flyercanuck]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

McCrosbyVechkin is from Aramaic meaning Fast, dizzy loser 

 

Certainly NOT pungent.

[jammer2]

It's common knowledge that Provs and Patrick were teammates a few years back. The great thing about that is the Flyers scouts have intimate previous knowledge about Patrick from scouting Provorov. It was back a few years, but still, gives the org a solid foundation from which to build a draft model.  Plus, I'm sure Hexy's scouting crew does their due diligence and scouts all prospects, even the ones that seem out of reach due to draft position.

[flyercanuck]

2017 Top prospects game featuring Nolan vs Nico (both captains)

 

 

[murraycraven]

On 5/2/2017 at 9:26 PM, OccamsRazor said:

If Hischier comes the Flyers way, there would be plenty of reason for excitement, too. Again, it's pretty much a win-win scenario when you are guaranteed of a shot at a player with outstanding potential, whether it's in column A or column B. 

 

Agree.... really there is no reason to worry.   I think both players are going to be very good.   I do think Nico has more of an "eite" skill-set but either player is fine by me.   It is up to NJ and whatever goes for the second pick is fine...    

[flyercanuck]

Just now, murraycraven said:

 

Agree.... really there is no reason to worry.   I think both players are going to be very good.   I do think Nico has more of an "eite" skill-set but either player is fine by me.   It is up to NJ and whatever goes for the second pick is fine...    

 

Hischier definitely has the 'wow" factor. He's faster, quicker, better shooter. Patrick has him in size, better face off man, better defensively (Hischier is good though). Both very good passers, high hockey IQs. 

[AJgoal]

Nice interview with Hextall on NHLN. Covers a lot of ground, including the lottery:

 

 

Also listened to an interview from Monday on the NHL radio channel powerplay show (it's on demand if you have Sirius) with Nolan Patrick. I really liked the fact that he identified his skating as his biggest weakness and something he was already working on. As we've seen with Lindblom, it can certainly improve if it's targeted. Nice to see the kid willing to put in the work.

[radoran]

On 5/3/2017 at 2:11 PM, elmatus said:

Busts at no.2 imo (let's go since 2000)

 

 

 

Who would you have taken instead of JVR in that draft? He has more goals and points than anyone in the first round except Couture and Pacioretty (and more 25+ goal seasons than Voracek and Giroux combined). You want a "bust" in 2007? Zach Hamill (20 games, 4 points at #8) says and Angelo Esposito says "abbondanza" from Italy.

 

I'm in agreement that Staal turned out to be a reach, but he turned out OK as a Pen. That said, the mind boggles at the Pens adding a Toews or Backstrom down the middle, though, doesn't it?

 

Honestly, though, I don't see who is a "better option" than four time 30-goal scorer Ryan in his draft. Price with 20/20 hindsight? Kopitar?

 

Not sure any of those three really count as "busts".

 

Not even the Finnophile in me can defend Lehtfourin

[AJgoal]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Who would you have taken instead of JVR in that draft? He has more goals and points than anyone in the first round except Couture and Pacioretty (and more 25+ goal seasons than Voracek and Giroux combined). You want a "bust" in 2007? Zach Hamill (20 games, 4 points at #8) says and Angelo Esposito says "abbondanza" from Italy.

 

I'm in agreement that Staal turned out to be a reach, but he turned out OK as a Pen. That said, the mind boggles at the Pens adding a Toews or Backstrom down the middle, though, doesn't it?

 

Honestly, though, I don't see who is a "better option" than four time 30-goal scorer Ryan in his draft. Price with 20/20 hindsight? Kopitar?

 

Not sure any of those three really count as "busts".

 

Not even the Finnophile in me can defend Lehtfourin

 

And a guy being a better player at a later pick doesn't make the earlier pick a bust. It just means that the ceilings on 17-18 year olds is really hard to judge. I'd have a really, really hard time describing a multiple 25+ goal scorer as a bust.

[flyercanuck]

Ya, JVR wasn't a bust. It just wasn't a great draft.

 

 It wasn't a huge reach to take JVR...if I recall it was between him and Turris for 2nd. It's just kind of frustrating when you end up dead last, lose the lottery, and end up with a guy who plays like he's not sure he even likes hockey.

 

 This isn't the strongest draft...but we all thought we were picking 13th or worse. I'll be happy with whoever we take.

[murraycraven]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Hischier definitely has the 'wow" factor. He's faster, quicker, better shooter. Patrick has him in size, better face off man, better defensively (Hischier is good though). Both very good passers, high hockey IQs. 

 

definitely...

 

I thought it was interesting reading BM's article today.  Nico will not be eligible for the AHL next year and would need to spend another year on Jr which is not a bad thing IMO.   I think right now it is a coin toss as to who goes one and two.  

 

Exciting times!   

[elmatus]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Who would you have taken instead of JVR in that draft? He has more goals and points than anyone in the first round except Couture and Pacioretty (and more 25+ goal seasons than Voracek and Giroux combined). You want a "bust" in 2007? Zach Hamill (20 games, 4 points at #8) says and Angelo Esposito says "abbondanza" from Italy.

 

I'm in agreement that Staal turned out to be a reach, but he turned out OK as a Pen. That said, the mind boggles at the Pens adding a Toews or Backstrom down the middle, though, doesn't it?

 

Honestly, though, I don't see who is a "better option" than four time 30-goal scorer Ryan in his draft. Price with 20/20 hindsight? Kopitar?

 

Not sure any of those three really count as "busts".

 

Not even the Finnophile in me can defend Lehtfourin

 

You're not wrong about JVR. I'm just salty at how aggravatingly lame he was when he was in PHI. It's hard to get over it.

 

Ryan had great seasons when playing with great players. Maybe calling him a bust is a bit much, but i can't say i feel ge lived up to his billing. 

 

Maybe i expect too much. To me, the 2nd overall should be an elite talent that teams can build around. I think both JVR and Ryan are complementary pieces at best. 

 

Again, i do likely expect too much. I get that.

[jammer2]

4 hours ago, AJgoal said:

Nice interview with Hextall on NHLN. Covers a lot of ground, including the lottery:

 

 

Also listened to an interview from Monday on the NHL radio channel powerplay show (it's on demand if you have Sirius) with Nolan Patrick. I really liked the fact that he identified his skating as his biggest weakness and something he was already working on. As we've seen with Lindblom, it can certainly improve if it's targeted. Nice to see the kid willing to put in the work.

 

 

 

 

I watched the CHL Prospects game live when it was aired. To be honest, I was mostly watching the Spits, Valardi and DiPietro and assessing how they looked with the other young stars. Thankfully, fc posted it and I was watching a few other guys....lol. The funny thing, I had read, and seen in clips that Patrick was a really good skater, kinda shocked to see him lumbering out there, he looked just a step quicker than Cooter. Who knows if he was healthy etc, but I expected him to be faster.

[jammer2]

9 minutes ago, elmatus said:

You're not wrong about JVR. I'm just salty at how aggravatingly lame he was when he was in PHI. It's hard to get over it.

 

 You are not the only one, believe me.

10 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Maybe i expect too much. To me, the 2nd overall should be an elite talent that teams can build around. I think both JVR and Ryan are complementary pieces at best. 

 

 

 I gotta be honest here. JVR, when you look at the stats, is more than a complimentary piece. He's a solid addition to any teams top 6 and shows a nifty presence in front of the net that is perfect for any top pp. He has really nice hands. To this day though, I have always contended he does not LOVE hockey, he plays it cause it's the only way to make millions. He has no soul, no heart and I'm glad he's gone. Like many, HATE the return, but so very glad he's gone.

[elmatus]

13 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 You are not the only one, believe me.

 

 I gotta be honest here. JVR, when you look at the stats, is more than a complimentary piece. He's a solid addition to any teams top 6 and shows a nifty presence in front of the net that is perfect for any top pp. He has really nice hands. To this day though, I have always contended he does not LOVE hockey, he plays it cause it's the only way to make millions. He has no soul, no heart and I'm glad he's gone. Like many, HATE the return, but so very glad he's gone.

 

Yeah, but I feel a core piece needs more than stats. Ovechkin has foolish stats and no cups. Toews has good stats but not Ovy stats -- and a million pieces of championship hardware from basically all levels of hockey. If I'm starting with nothing and looking to build a team, I go with Toews. That may seem like a bad decision to some, but I think there's a lot more to winning the cup than putting up points.

 

Maybe Ovy is a bad comparison there, as he was a truly dominant player. Go for Kessel if you prefer.

 

When I say JVR and Ryan are not real core pieces, I mean they generally are not the kind of player you win championships with. I want to win championships more than I care about having a x time 25+ goal scorer. I mean, ideally I want both, but it starts with someone who can be a leader and inspire his team. That's not JVR or Ryan.

 

Now granted, it's likely more difficult to gauge things like leadership ability when scouting players. And in both the cases mentioned above, their respective drafting teams would have already had their leadership core in place (or at least they thought so). I do understand both picks, but I can't help but feel underwhelmed by them. I guess it did work out for the Ducks in a way.

 

This is all with the benefit of hindsight, but I kind of feel like it should have been obvious to scouts that JVR looks like he doesn't love hockey. I think that description nails his demeanor. I also think that was obvious from day one. You're 100% right. He looks like he has no heart. People who look like their hearts are not in the game should probably not be taken 2nd overall.

 

On the topic, despite his top-6 stats, I have a feeling Babs will push JVR out the door this off season. He'll do it for pretty much the exact reason you've described, and he knows a thing or two about winning. :/

 

Why does this matter in the Nolan/Nico debate? It's not really a debate given we're picking 2nd and not 1st, but I very much like that Nolan is billed as a team leader. It may be Nico could be that too, but that doesn't appear to be a defining quality right now. It does seem to be one for Nolan, and the Flyers very much need someone who can lead in the years to come.

 

 

[vis]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

On the topic, despite his top-6 stats, I have a feeling Babs will push JVR out the door this off season. He'll do it for pretty much the exact reason you've described, and he knows a thing or two about winning. :/

No doubt in my mind that JVR is not a Babcock favorite.  Doesn't play hard enough for him.  Trade bait for defensive help.

[Podein25]

16 hours ago, jammer2 said:

he looked just a step quicker than Cooter.

 

Yuge, if true.

[flyercanuck]

 

Finnish?  

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Finnish?  

 

C'mon, ease up. Finland is very close to Switzerland, practically next door. 

[flyercanuck]

All those Scandinavian countries look the same.   Kinda like when Moose Dupont used to call Salming "Swiss Cheese".

 

[pilldoc]

Who needs common core curriculum....

[jammer2]

7 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yuge, if true.

 

 

 

 To be fair, I only rewatched a period and a half. He did put on a burst of speed on the forecheck, knocking the puck free behind the net. That is certainly a strong suit in his game. It seems like when he wants to get the puck, he will move heaven and earth to get it. A great quality. That is the one part of his game that reminds me of Matthews.

 

I was just not impressed on his speed entering the offensive zone. Even when he had a chance to wind up, he seemed lumbering and kinda stiff, no jump in his step type thing. Who knows, maybe he played a few games before the Orr/Cherry game?