Flyers (now drafting #2 overall) and the 2017 NHL Draft (now with Poll)

[icehole]

OK.  You guys ready for an icehole comment that you won't like?  And I swear this is my opinion...not a troll comment.  I know absolutely nothing about Nico or Nolan.  Looking at the scouting reports, Nolan is exactly what I am looking for on this team.  His size and speed is what flyers desperately need.

 

However, one thing that is turning me off is the comparison to Toewes.  I even saw "Toewes Lite".  Don't get me wrong, Toewes is a great player, but I don't think that's what the flyers need.  "Not flashy" isn't a great endorsement.  We need flashy!

 

Maybe guys like lindblom and rubstov will be the flashy guys and Patrick will be the perfect fit.  But on a team needing more skill, a responsible "play the game the right way" type of player doesn't excite me.

 

That's just the scouting report though.  I watched his YouTube highlights, and one thing that stood out to me is almost every goal is top shelf.  He even pops the water bottle in about half of the videos.  It looks like he has sniper abilities which is exciting.

 

I'll have to look at vidoes of the other guys, but on paper, Patrick would be my pick.

[OccamsRazor]

 

 

Yeah so i guess i can see now if Nico goes 1st maybe you're better off selecting someone else now.......

[flyercanuck]

Without the injury history, Patrick would likely be the consensus pick. Some guys may say that's not true...but it's gotta be in the back of your mind. He's got great size, above average skill at every aspect of the game and has "leader" stamped across his forehead. Injuries aside, I think he'll likely end up a #1 centre...just not a superstar. And that's a hell of a lot better than I was expecting out of this draft.

 

 Hischier seems like he could have a higher ceiling. He's got that flash about him. It doesn't make him better. And he likely also has a lower floor than Patrick. I'm not even positive he ends up a centre in the NHL...he's pretty slight. Obviously he can fill out. And getting a top line LWer isn't going to hurt this team...I'd just prefer a top line centre, whether it's Nico or Nolan.

 

It's almost nice that we don't have the 1st pick if that makes any sense. I think we get a good to very good player either way. And we really can't blow the pick.

[mojo1917]

On 4/30/2017 at 11:05 AM, OccamsRazor said:

Exactly to have the chance this soon to draft Giroux's replacement

German Rubstov ?

[Samifan]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No reason to be concerned for the Flyers, they have Jim McCrossin to keep Patrick healthy. 

[AJgoal]

 

[OccamsRazor]

58 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

German Rubstov ?

 

 

I seen a few places say he will kick out to LW in the NHL.

 

Sounds right Flyers love to move guys around.

[AJgoal]

 

[AJgoal]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I seen a few places say he will kick out to LW in the NHL.

 

Sounds right Flyers love to move guys around.

 

He's already playing LW. Flyers had nothing to do with it.

[RonJeremy]

Patrick is already reminding me of Lindros. The last thing we want as an injury prone star. I hope the Devils take him. I also wouldn't mind seeing us trade our second rounder plus to move into the first round and get either that big Russian Kostin or Comtois . Grabbing a top center a a big scoring winger would be great

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

He's already playing LW. Flyers had nothing to do with it.

 

I never said Flyers said it just other scout and so called experts...projecting.

[OH1FlyersFan]

First reaction -- That's AWESOME!!  Finally, we get a bit of a break.

 

Second reaction (almost instantaneous with the first and as a life-long Flyers fan who's been totally conditioned to expect the worst more often than not) -- Aw, crap!!  The organization is somehow going to panic, not used to being in this situation, and blow the pick going with some obscure, long-shot of a player.  Stomach full of butterflies.

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, OH1FlyersFan said:

First reaction -- That's AWESOME!!  Finally, we get a bit of a break.

 

Second reaction (almost instantaneous with the first and as a life-long Flyers fan who's been totally conditioned to expect the worst more often than not) -- Aw, crap!!  The organization is somehow going to panic, not used to being in this situation, and blow the pick going with some obscure, long-shot of a player.  Stomach full of butterflies.

 

Hextalls the GM...not Homer.

 

Breathe.

[AJgoal]

You know what I just thought of?

 

This really means there's no way they re-sign Vandevelde, right? 

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

You know what I just thought of?

 

This really means there's no way they re-sign Vandevelde, right? 

 

Where there is a will there is a way....

 

[AJgoal]

Well, we have almost two months to go back and forth, but I found a couple of things interesting post-lottery.

 

Button went from saying that Patrick was still the guy he was mocking at #1, to saying pretty unequivocally that the Devils would take Hischier:

 

Nolan Patrick of the Brandon Wheat Kings and Nico Hischier of the Halifax Mooseheads continue to occupy the top two spots in the March edition of Craig’s List.

Patrick has done nothing but solidify his spot at the top of our rankings for the 2017 NHL Entry Draft. After missing much of the first half of the season due to injury, Patrick’s game is rounding into form (20 goals and 26 assists in 33 games). He’s showed he has all the attributes and potential to become a top centre at the next level.

Patrick combines high-end sense and feel for the game with considerable skill and size, leaving no doubt that he belongs on the top of the list.

Hischier (38 goals and 48 assists in 57 games) remains firmly in second. While the Swiss centre has been pushing Patrick for first overall, he hasn’t done enough to surpass him.

 

vs:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/devils-claim-top-pick-in-dramatic-nhl-draft-lottery~1112101

 

Followed by his post-lottery mock draft:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/button-s-mock-draft-dynamic-hischier-is-ready-for-the-nhl~1112103

 

In one article that interviewed several NHL execs prior to the lottery, Shero said he knew the odds were long, but he knew who he would pick with the first overall. He's now saying he doesn't, but I wonder if something slipped out when he didn't think he'd have the opportunity.

 

But then, you get a quote like this from Shero:

 

"Patrick certainly has lineage. ... He's been through injury this year, but everybody knows he's a heck of a player. [Alex] Galchenyuk in his draft year (2012) didn't really play.

 

"You get a Swiss kid, you see him, a center iceman who's got size and talent..."

 

Still up in the air, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Devils are leaning Hischier, looking for a more dynamic center as a change-up after taking Zacha, who is a bigger body. 

 

[Howie58]

Boy, I hope we don't get another Alexander Daigle.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPoc2brdHTAhWIKCYKHWKiBNQQFghDMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fottawacitizen.com%2Fsports%2Fhockey%2Fnhl%2Fsenatorsextra%2Fdaigle-serves-as-draft-day-reminder&usg=AFQjCNGXEmeqsi5HgoDwRnK_IzBfGzrAhg

 

I am amazed at the attention and hopes raised by this lottery victory.  Edmonton had years of good picks and it has taken a decade plus to get it right.  Yes, being 2nd instead of 13th matters in the grand scheme. But...a lot of things have to happen before the Flyers make it into the top 10 squads.  Seriously, I am wondering if the media and others are losing their sanity over this lottery gig.

 

Best,

Howie

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

Well, we have almost two months to go back and forth, but I found a couple of things interesting post-lottery.

 

Button went from saying that Patrick was still the guy he was mocking at #1, to saying pretty unequivocally that the Devils would take Hischier:

 

 

 

 

vs:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/devils-claim-top-pick-in-dramatic-nhl-draft-lottery~1112101

 

Followed by his post-lottery mock draft:

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/button-s-mock-draft-dynamic-hischier-is-ready-for-the-nhl~1112103

 

In one article that interviewed several NHL execs prior to the lottery, Shero said he knew the odds were long, but he knew who he would pick with the first overall. He's now saying he doesn't, but I wonder if something slipped out when he didn't think he'd have the opportunity.

 

But then, you get a quote like this from Shero:

 

"Patrick certainly has lineage. ... He's been through injury this year, but everybody knows he's a heck of a player. [Alex] Galchenyuk in his draft year (2012) didn't really play.

 

"You get a Swiss kid, you see him, a center iceman who's got size and talent..."

 

Still up in the air, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Devils are leaning Hischier, looking for a more dynamic center as a change-up after taking Zacha, who is a bigger body. 

 

 

The one thing is, Patrick looks like a sure thing #1 centre. I'm not saying he'll be a superstar, but he looks like you could put him down as your #1.

 

Hischier to me isn't a sure centre. He could very well be, but he could also end up playing LW in the NHL. A lot will depend on his growth over the next couple of years.

 

 Patrick already has that size. I know it isn't all about size in the NHL anymore, but centre basically still is. Giroux is more of an outlier, and we all know his EV percentage. 

 

 The Devils took Zacha hoping he would be a #1 centre, but he's more of a winger. Or he IS a winger. Mcleod looks like a #2 centre at best. So if both players seem pretty well equal as far as talent goes, wouldn't you take the centre if you're the Devils? They already have Hall and Zacha at LW.

[AJgoal]

17 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Boy, I hope we don't get another Alexander Daigle.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPoc2brdHTAhWIKCYKHWKiBNQQFghDMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fottawacitizen.com%2Fsports%2Fhockey%2Fnhl%2Fsenatorsextra%2Fdaigle-serves-as-draft-day-reminder&usg=AFQjCNGXEmeqsi5HgoDwRnK_IzBfGzrAhg

 

I am amazed at the attention and hopes raised by this lottery victory.  Edmonton had years of good picks and it has taken a decade plus to get it right.  Yes, being 2nd instead of 13th matters in the grand scheme. But...a lot of things have to happen before the Flyers make it into the top 10 squads.  Seriously, I am wondering if the media and others are losing their sanity over this lottery gig.

 

Best,

Howie

 

Daigle was taken #1 overall, so the Flyers have that going for them. Also, his heart was never in it. When you hear that Hischier's first questions to his coach were about practice and how he could improve as a player, or that Patrick is tough in his own end, those are guys who already have the work ethic going for them. They might not hit their projected ceilings, but there's significantly less chance of a Daigle-level bust there. Even if they're productive 2nd line players, that's a big deal for the Flyers.

 

The other thing the Flyers have going for them is that there isn't as much pressure to throw a #2 overall out on the ice immediately. The Flyers have a respectable roster already, so there isn't the "need" felt by most teams picking in the top-3 to inject that young player into the lineup right away. They can watch him at development camp and training camp and make a decision based solely on his performance. If he's not ready, back he goes to juniors (or even to the AHL in Hischier's case) for more development. What this does do is inject a high end prospect that the Flyers were less and less likely to acquire as years went on into their prospect pool and accelerates the window to the point where you may not be looking at Giroux falling off a cliff beforehand.

 

11 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The one thing is, Patrick looks like a sure thing #1 centre. I'm not saying he'll be a superstar, but he looks like you could put him down as your #1.

 

Hischier to me isn't a sure centre. He could very well be, but he could also end up playing LW in the NHL. A lot will depend on his growth over the next couple of years.

 

 Patrick already has that size. I know it isn't all about size in the NHL anymore, but centre basically still is. Giroux is more of an outlier, and we all know his EV percentage. 

 

 The Devils took Zacha hoping he would be a #1 centre, but he's more of a winger. Or he IS a winger. Mcleod looks like a #2 centre at best. So if both players seem pretty well equal as far as talent goes, wouldn't you take the centre if you're the Devils? They already have Hall and Zacha at LW.

 

I agree that they probably should, based on what I've been able to see of the two players, but the comments by Button - the immediate turnaround on who the #1 pick would be by a guy who is pretty plugged in around the league - coupled with Shero's statement that he knew who he'd take if he did win, make it at least seem like they're leaning the other way. don't forget that Shero drafted Jordan Staal ahead of Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel. Maybe it's the injuries. It could also be a case like Matthews/Laine last year where people have seen and studied Patrick for so long, projecting him as the #1 overall, that they've nitpicked his game to death and are elevating Hischier a bit more than they should. In the end, unless Shero's absolutely made up his mind, they're going to be watching tape of these two guys non-stop for the next seven weeks to make a final decision.

 

I'm waffling a lot, but I'd still be happy with either.

[King Knut]

 

On 5/1/2017 at 10:39 AM, AJgoal said:

Interesting:

 

Said Hextall: "I know everybody talks about [those] two - and there's two very good players - but there are a couple of other guys who are pretty darn good, too. I don't know that it's a total slam-dunk that this draft is predicted, necessarily."

"You can't say no to anything because you don't know what's going to come your way," Hextall said. "Do I envision moving the No. 2 pick? No, I don't. In saying that, if something comes along that we can't say no to, we'll certainly look at it, but as of right now, I'd say we'd be pretty comfortable making that pick."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...rall_pick.html

 

I know it's a really good happy thing, but in some sense, this probably really threw Hextall and the scouts for a curve.  Sure, we'll take the number two pick... but now we have a lot of work to do to figure out who the hell to take compared to what our needs are. 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

Boy, I hope we don't get another Alexander Daigle.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPoc2brdHTAhWIKCYKHWKiBNQQFghDMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fottawacitizen.com%2Fsports%2Fhockey%2Fnhl%2Fsenatorsextra%2Fdaigle-serves-as-draft-day-reminder&usg=AFQjCNGXEmeqsi5HgoDwRnK_IzBfGzrAhg

 

I am amazed at the attention and hopes raised by this lottery victory.  Edmonton had years of good picks and it has taken a decade plus to get it right.  Yes, being 2nd instead of 13th matters in the grand scheme. But...a lot of things have to happen before the Flyers make it into the top 10 squads.  Seriously, I am wondering if the media and others are losing their sanity over this lottery gig.

 

Best,

Howie

 

I'm with you Howie.  

It's not like choosing between Eichel and McDavid.  There are tons of top 2 picks who never amount to much.  We're not getting a generational talent in this year's draft.

 

It's a nice boon, but it's not a game changer by any stretch of the imagination.  In my mind this doesn't change much of anything other than potentially getting another strong young prospect at FW that we likely won't see for 2 years at the least.  

 

The draft is a funny thing.  Our best draft picks over the past  30 years or so have been lower down.  Gagne, Williams, Richards, Giroux, Carter was the highest pick that worked out at 11.  And our only top 3 picks in the past 30 years?  JVR and Mike Ricci.  Am I forgetting anyone?  (Not counting Forsberg for obvious reasons).

 

It'll be interesting and give a little more reason to pay attention on draft day.  

It's fun in the mean time to make wild speculation about what Hextall could maneuver (does he work a deal with McPhee and have McPhee draft some guys Hextall wants just to trade the #2 pick to Vegas?  could work depending on who's exposed).

 

That would be fun to think about and invent some drama around.  But likely we end up with Patrick or Hischier and then we won't see them in the pros for a few years at best.   

 

There's always the off chance he (whichever it is) has an amazing year in juniors and a great camp and makes the roster in 2018-2019...  There will  be a 2C or 3C spot open at that point in all likelihood.  But there's a lot of hockey that needs to happen first.

 

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The one thing is, Patrick looks like a sure thing #1 centre. I'm not saying he'll be a superstar, but he looks like you could put him down as your #1.

 

Hischier to me isn't a sure centre. He could very well be, but he could also end up playing LW in the NHL. A lot will depend on his growth over the next couple of years.

 

 Patrick already has that size. I know it isn't all about size in the NHL anymore, but centre basically still is. Giroux is more of an outlier, and we all know his EV percentage. 

 

 The Devils took Zacha hoping he would be a #1 centre, but he's more of a winger. Or he IS a winger. Mcleod looks like a #2 centre at best. So if both players seem pretty well equal as far as talent goes, wouldn't you take the centre if you're the Devils? They already have Hall and Zacha at LW.

 

I am by no means an expert on either guy, but from what very little I've seen, neither one seems to skate terribly well or is very quick on the ice.

 

Patrick has some size advantage, but is that an advantage in the NHL?  Especially today's NHL?  

He does seem to have a pretty accurate shot.  But to me he looks almost like a JVR type skill set.  Good shot, big, but not physical.  Not a particularly good or fast skater.  Is he good because he's good or because he's bigger than the other guys in juniors?  

 

Hischier seems like he plays something closer to the kind of game a prototypical "modern" forward.  But even so he doesn't seem like a particularly great skater either. 

 

I don't see NHL D men having trouble keeping up with or getting beat by them a whole lot at this point.  Both seem like projects.  

 

Again I've said I know little to nothing about either one and have only seen a little.  If I had to pick between them, I'd go with whoever is faster.   Hischier seems to have more maneuverability and play making potential.  Just my very ignorant take.

 

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I know it's a really good happy thing, but in some sense, this probably really threw Hextall and the scouts for a curve.  Sure, we'll take the number two pick... but now we have a lot of work to do to figure out who the hell to take compared to what our needs are. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah because they know they will be ripped to shreds by the fans if they get this wrong!!!PRESSURE!!!

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm with you Howie.  

It's not like choosing between Eichel and McDavid.  There are tons of top 2 picks who never amount to much.  We're not getting a generational talent in this year's draft.

 

It's a nice boon, but it's not a game changer by any stretch of the imagination.  In my mind this doesn't change much of anything other than potentially getting another strong young prospect at FW that we likely won't see for 2 years at the least.  

 

I doubt we could come up with 'tons' of top 2 picks that didn't amount to much. They are generally good to great. Not sure what 'game changer' means to you, but getting a #1 centre or LWer over a ? to me changes the game for the Flyers.

 

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

The draft is a funny thing.  Our best draft picks over the past  30 years or so have been lower down.  Gagne, Williams, Richards, Giroux, Carter was the highest pick that worked out at 11.  And our only top 3 picks in the past 30 years?  JVR and Mike Ricci.  Am I forgetting anyone?  (Not counting Forsberg for obvious reasons).

 

 The Flyers used to be a pretty good team, so they picked later in the 1st most of the time (or not at all). That'd be the biggest reason our best picks would be later. JVR came in a lame draft. Ricci came at a time when Europe wasn't scouted as well as now (or stars like Hischier didn't play CHL) Forsberg went 6th I believe...again because of poorer scouting. We also got Pitkanen 4th overall in another not-so-great draft (teams are more likely to trade a top pick in a lame draft)

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It'll be interesting and give a little more reason to pay attention on draft day.  

It's fun in the mean time to make wild speculation about what Hextall could maneuver (does he work a deal with McPhee and have McPhee draft some guys Hextall wants just to trade the #2 pick to Vegas?  could work depending on who's exposed).

 

 I'd have a hard time believing Vegas is going to get much worthy of the 2nd overall pick.

 

7 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

That would be fun to think about and invent some drama around.  But likely we end up with Patrick or Hischier and then we won't see them in the pros for a few years at best. 

There's always the off chance he (whichever it is) has an amazing year in juniors and a great camp and makes the roster in 2018-2019...  There will  be a 2C or 3C spot open at that point in all likelihood.  But there's a lot of hockey that needs to happen first.

 

 

 Patrick could likely make the Flyers next season. Hischier, likely the year after. The odds of them being better than the guy we'd be taking 13th are pretty damn good in my estimation. 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah because they know they will be ripped to shreds by the fans if they get this wrong!!!PRESSURE!!!

 

If I believe one thing about Hextall, it's that after 30 years of dealing with Flyers Fans, he could kinda give a crap what we think.  He's doing what's best for the team as far as his ability to ascertain and that's all he's worried about.