Flyers (now drafting #2 overall) and the 2017 NHL Draft (now with Poll)

[Podein25]

48 minutes ago, icehole said:

From watching some of the videos, it does look like Patrick is ready to play in the NHL...certainly more than Hischier.

 

Was it you who said they'd rather see game tape than highlight reels?  I completely agree.  Unfortunately, I don't know where to get game tape of these players.  My opinion of these two from the clips, is that Patrick is using his size and determination to make things happen.  He also looks like he knows when to pass.  Hischier's clips show how he doesn't make a mistake when he has the open shot.  I didn't see many assists from him and I didn't see a lot of creative play making.  He doesn't stand out to me so I feel like he'll be slightly better than average.  The experts seem to like him though, so maybe they see something that I dont.

 

Why is there no talk about Vilardi?  He looks like he has some skill, and he's got size to go with it.

 

I'm just on the very outside, throwing my opinion in there.  I haven't seen very much of any of these guys.

 

Fair enough. No, it was not me who made the point about game tap vs highlight reels. But I think it goes without saying that highlight reels are not enough to judge a player on. Certainly not for the purposes of drafting.

 

Not sure why Vilardi doesn't get more attention. There just doesn't seem any wow factor there. So far the debate in this thread has been: Hischier vs Patrick, with the idea that the Flyers would take whoever the Debs don't. But maybe the debate should be: one of them vs Vilardi?

[Podein25]

36 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

4 months does not make a year.

 

At least down here in Merica anyways...not sure how a Canuck calendar works...guess 6 months with no sunlight in some spots make you think only a day has passed...

 

 

My mistake. Math not my strong point (except when counting sheep)

[Podein25]

10 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I like Vilardi, I really do. He has some very nice qualities. He competes hard, cares about play in his own zone, and best of all, has a God given ultra quick, deadly accurate release. He should score at the NHL level. I have him penciled in as 35 goal scorer in a few years (realistically, probably 4 years for that). He does not look slow at the OHL level, but he does not look like a speed demon either. That is his biggest drawback in my mind. He might only be an average NHL skater, which is ok, but will prevent him from reaching star status. Gabe is one of the players who will benefit LARGE from a strong showing at the NHL Combine. If he is smart, he's working on that stuff as I type. 

 

Thanks for this. Skating is now huge determinant in where a guy goes. The thinking used to be: we can teach him to skate. But Couturier maybe has proven that wrong.

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

Not sure why Vilardi doesn't get more attention. There just doesn't seem any wow factor there. So far the debate in this thread has been: Hischier vs Patrick, with the idea that the Flyers would take whoever the Debs don't. But maybe the debate should be: one of them vs Vilardi?

 

Sportsnet has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi is 5

nhl.com has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi is 4

Hockey News has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi at 4

TSN has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi at 4

Hockey Prospects has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi at 4

 

It's not just this thread - virtually everyone has them ranked 1/2.

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

Sportsnet has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi is 5

nhl.com has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi is 4

Hockey News has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi at 4

TSN has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi at 4

Hockey Prospects has Patrick and Hischier 1/2 - Vlardi at 4

 

It's not just this thread - virtually everyone has them ranked 1/2.

 

I know that. I was just trying to start a discussion about Vialrdi. He's being overshadowed, but maybe that's a mistake you know?

[pilldoc]

In case anyone is interested here some scouting info on Vilardi just for the hell of it.

 

Gabriel Vilardi

2016-17 Team: Windsor Spitfires (#13)
Date of Birth: August 16, 1999
Place of Birth: Kingston, Ontario
Ht: 6’2” Wt: 192 lbs
Shoots: Right
Position: C/RW
NHL Draft Eligibility: 2017 first-year eligible
Twitter: @Gabe_Vilardi13

Rankings

• THW Alternate Rankings: 6th (January)
• Future Considerations: 3rd (Spring)
• ISS: 3rd (April)
• McKeen’s Hockey: 5th (February)
• Bob McKenzie: 4th (Mid-season)
• Craig Button: 4th (March)
• Jeff Marek: 5th (March)

Like his fellow Windsor Spitfires teammate, Michael DiPietro, Gabe Vilardi may have secured his position in the first round of this year’s NHL Entry Draft with his play this season. On top of that, while his club couldn’t get out of the first round of the OHL playoffs, he did put his skills on full display against the London Knights in their seven-game series.

In his second full season with the Spitfires Vilardi notched 29 goals and 61 points in just 49 games. He added six points in seven games in the playoffs and was a physical force against a smaller London team.

In his OHL career, he’s averaged 0.89 points per game in 111 regular season games. For being a physical player, his 26 career penalty minutes is a prime example of how Vilardi can stay within the rules of the game while chipping away at the opposing players.

He will beef up as he gets older, but for now, the 17-year-old can be an impact player on the offensive end as he has the ability to get into tight spaces and create opportunities out of nothing

NHL Draft Projection

The top five picks are pretty much set in stone when it comes to this year’s draft, but Vilardi has been projected to go anywhere between third and fifth. Chances are he won’t fall, it’s just a matter of what teams are looking for in that early range of picks.

 

 

Quotables

“Vilardi is a big center with excellent hockey sense and a powerful ripper of a shot. His skating needs to improve, but scouts aren’t too worried. One noted that he’s already better than Mark Stone at the same age…” – Ryan Kennedy, The Hockey News

“He’s very composed with the puck, and uses his vision and playmaking ability to influence the game in all three zones. He excels below the dots in the offensive zone where he uses his size and reach to dictate the play and generate scoring opportunities.” – Matt Ryan, NHL Central Scouting

Strengths

• Forechecking
• Physicality
• Reach and stick-handling in tight

Under Construction (Improvements to Make)

• Skating
• Growth and size

NHL Potential

Vilardi projects to be a top-six forward. If he can fill out physically and learn to play more of a power forward type of role, he can be a force up front for any team that drafts him. He plays a similar game to current players like Mark Stone, but has the ability to showcase more offensive prowess than the Senators’ forward.

Risk-Reward Analysis

Risk – 2/5, Reward – 4/5

Fantasy Hockey Potential

Offence – 8/10, Defence – 7/10

 

 

[pilldoc]

From another source:

Vilardi is natural centerman who was assigned to the wing for the majority of the 2016-17 season, playing mostly with 20-year-old Julius Nattinen as his center. He is 6'3'', 201 lbs, and is a gifted, highly-intelligent playmaker with tremendous power and excellent awareness of his positioning on the ice in all three zones. He excels along the boards and down low -- behind the net and in front of the net -- where he can hound possession of the puck and outwork his opponent to generate offense. He has soft hands, terrific vision, and the creativity to be a dynamic player on the forecheck and off the rush.

 If there is one concern to be had about this player, it is that he does not skate as well as one wishes he could. While he uses his edges well and uses his anticipation to be in the right places, the lack of consistency in his skating is the primary factor that has kept him from being under legitimate consideration for the first-overall draft position. As such, he is consistently the third or fourth-ranked prospect on many 2017 draft ranking lists. He was the consensus third-ranked player on Bob McKenzie's April 27, 2017 pre-lottery rankings.

Not everyone has had the opportunity to watch this player, nor other draft-eligible players. Therefore, I have developed a comprehensive scouting package based on Vilardi's 2016-17 season: all shifts from six games played between January and March 2017. Nobody is expected to watch all of it, although you are welcome to watch as much footage as you like. I have simply prepared the footage for those who are curious enough to examine the player's game, and I have offered a large enough sample size to give people an accurate depiction of the way he plays. The presentation is divided into six segments -- one segment for each match. You may watch all of it, or just some of it.

 The games featured here (and their corresponding start times in the video) are:

 (0:15) January 13, 2017: Windsor Spitfires @ Sarnia Sting
(24:10) January 17, 2017: Windsor Spitfires @ Kitchener Rangers
(47:30) February 16, 2017: Windsor Spitfires vs Sarnia Sting
(1:13:31) March 2, 2017: Windsor Spitfires vs Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds
(1:40:21) March 5, 2017: Windsor Spitfires vs Sudbury Wolves
(2:09:16) March 15, 2017: Windsor Spitfires @ Sarnia Sting

 Featured here are games of all varieties, from multi-point games to those in which this player did not record any points. Three away games, and three home games were chosen for this package. The opponents range from the Sudbury Wolves, who were the 15th-ranked team to the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds, who were ranked 2nd-overall in the entire Ontario Hockey League. The Sarnia Sting were the 13th-placed team in the league, and the Kitchener Rangers were the 9th-placed team in the league. All of these teams qualified for the OHL playoffs. What matters most of all is the way in which Vilardi plays in these games from shift to shift. Some of these performances are stronger than others -- I would say that patience pays off for viewers here. The games are featured chronologically in the video.

 

 

[pilldoc]

40 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

 But Couturier maybe Definitely has proven that wrong.

 

Fixed it for ya   IMO, no matter what Coots does from here on out, his skating is what it is ......

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

 

Fixed it for ya   IMO, no matter what Coots does from here on out, his skating is what it is ......

 

Apparently. Personally, it makes no sense. I can only conclude that he has not put the work in to make his skating better, particularly his first step quickness. It appears to be not once scintilla bit better than when he started in the league

[jammer2]

 Vilardi started out playing center, but the way the team was constructed, it worked out better for the top 6 to have Gabe play wing. He has been shuffled back and forth a few times. Both centers he played with did more harm to his stats then helped. Julius Nattanin is (perhaps I should say was) a highly thought of 2nd round pick of the Ducks a few years back. He REALLY regressed this year, his overage year in the OHL. Single digit goals by a guy who is supposed to supply offense as an older player is not even close to what the Spits were expecting. Don't know why, but he never got untracked this year.

 

 Logan Brown will never make a good pro. Valardi was paired with him as much as Nattinen this year. Logan is a big stiff who sits out with a hang nail, will never skate at the NHL level and his career should last less than 3 years with Ottawa. Another case of a big huge kid being overdrafted because of size. No heart, no willingness to give himself up for the puck...horrible player. Yes, he put up stats in the O, but he was selfish and egotistical while doing so. A bad teammate in my books.

 

 These are the two options Gabe had to work with. He was held back by these two. His skating is not awful, but it has no WOW factor. No lift you out of the seat stuff. I worry about how it will translate to the NHL game. I like his stride, and he has decent power in his stride, so there is room to work with. For the most part though, elite skating is a God given thing, you can only improve it so much, thus the lack of a 1 or 2 ranking. Cause the kid has the hands plus some.

 

 edit, really like his vision also, he makes some nice passes it tight spots and knows the chance is coming before the defender does. Also really like the way he offers up his body to protect the puck, that is a MUST in my books.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

4 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Apparently. Personally, it makes no sense. I can only conclude that he has not put the work in to make his skating better, particularly his first step quickness. It appears to be not once scintilla bit better than when he started in the league

 

I think his skating has improved over the years.  He used to be really slow.  Now he is just plain slow.

[OccamsRazor]

38 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

I think his skating has improved over the years.  He used to be really slow.  Now he is just plain slow.

 

Baby steps

[pilldoc]

42 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Baby steps

[King Knut]

22 hours ago, pilldoc said:

In case anyone is interested here some scouting info on Vilardi just for the hell of it.

 

Gabriel Vilardi

2016-17 Team: Windsor Spitfires (#13)
Date of Birth: August 16, 1999
Place of Birth: Kingston, Ontario
Ht: 6’2” Wt: 192 lbs
Shoots: Right
Position: C/RW
NHL Draft Eligibility: 2017 first-year eligible
Twitter: @Gabe_Vilardi13

Rankings

• THW Alternate Rankings: 6th (January)
• Future Considerations: 3rd (Spring)
• ISS: 3rd (April)
• McKeen’s Hockey: 5th (February)
• Bob McKenzie: 4th (Mid-season)
• Craig Button: 4th (March)
• Jeff Marek: 5th (March)

Like his fellow Windsor Spitfires teammate, Michael DiPietro, Gabe Vilardi may have secured his position in the first round of this year’s NHL Entry Draft with his play this season. On top of that, while his club couldn’t get out of the first round of the OHL playoffs, he did put his skills on full display against the London Knights in their seven-game series.

In his second full season with the Spitfires Vilardi notched 29 goals and 61 points in just 49 games. He added six points in seven games in the playoffs and was a physical force against a smaller London team.

In his OHL career, he’s averaged 0.89 points per game in 111 regular season games. For being a physical player, his 26 career penalty minutes is a prime example of how Vilardi can stay within the rules of the game while chipping away at the opposing players.

He will beef up as he gets older, but for now, the 17-year-old can be an impact player on the offensive end as he has the ability to get into tight spaces and create opportunities out of nothing

NHL Draft Projection

The top five picks are pretty much set in stone when it comes to this year’s draft, but Vilardi has been projected to go anywhere between third and fifth. Chances are he won’t fall, it’s just a matter of what teams are looking for in that early range of picks.

 

 

Quotables

“Vilardi is a big center with excellent hockey sense and a powerful ripper of a shot. His skating needs to improve, but scouts aren’t too worried. One noted that he’s already better than Mark Stone at the same age…” – Ryan Kennedy, The Hockey News

“He’s very composed with the puck, and uses his vision and playmaking ability to influence the game in all three zones. He excels below the dots in the offensive zone where he uses his size and reach to dictate the play and generate scoring opportunities.” – Matt Ryan, NHL Central Scouting

Strengths

• Forechecking
• Physicality
• Reach and stick-handling in tight

Under Construction (Improvements to Make)

• Skating
• Growth and size

NHL Potential

Vilardi projects to be a top-six forward. If he can fill out physically and learn to play more of a power forward type of role, he can be a force up front for any team that drafts him. He plays a similar game to current players like Mark Stone, but has the ability to showcase more offensive prowess than the Senators’ forward.

Risk-Reward Analysis

Risk – 2/5, Reward – 4/5

Fantasy Hockey Potential

Offence – 8/10, Defence – 7/10

 

 

 

If his skating is under construction, we don't need him.  Forechecking and Physicality aren't necessarily things we need to improve on either.  Not in a top 6 fwd.  

 

 

 

[pilldoc]

38 minutes ago, King Knut said:

If his skating is under construction, we don't need him.  Forechecking and Physicality aren't necessarily things we need to improve on either.  Not in a top 6 fwd.  

 

agree ...I believe @jammer2 also mentioned some concern with his skating ability.  We don't need a Coots 2.0.

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

agree ...I believe @jammer2 also mentioned some concern with his skating ability.  We don't need a Coots 2.0.

 

Don't get me started on defending Coots.  I have new ammunition I've uncovered this week.  

But without the implied negativity, I agree.  We don't need another player with that skillset.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

Nico Hischier vs. Nolan Patrick: 7 factors of Draft Boy Goodness

 

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2017/5/9/15587758/nico-hischier-vs-nolan-patrick-analysis-kinda-nhl-draft-2017

 

 

 

How could we forget hair???

 

[pilldoc]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Don't get me started on defending Coots.  I have new ammunition I've uncovered this week.  

But without the implied negativity, I agree.  We don't need another player with that skillset.

 

 

 

I should have clarified my statement a bit ..... we don't need a Coots 2.0 skating wise. 

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

 

I should have clarified my statement a bit ..... we don't need a Coots 2.0 skating wise. 

 

Agreed... or a forechecking, physical forward.  Those are nice aspects to have, but a speedy skilled skating stick handler with a not half bad shot is far more important to this team right now.

[Podein25]

The one thing that stands out about Vilardi, which we do need and makes him very different from Coots is his shot. 

[flyercanuck]

On 5/9/2017 at 0:20 PM, Podein25 said:

 

I know that. I was just trying to start a discussion about Vialrdi. He's being overshadowed, but maybe that's a mistake you know?

 

 

Out of about 30 different peoples opinion of who the top 2 should be I've seen 29 pick Nolan/Nico at about 50/50 and 1 guy pick Heiskanen (and I'm pretty sure it was purely for the drama). Nowhere have I seen Vilardi as a top 2 candidate (talking in the last month or so). Barring either of them getting caught with transvestite hookers and blow in a seedy motel room I'm guessing that's the way it stands. 

 

 I'd hope Hextall & co. did some scouting of everyone in the top 15 prior to the lottery...but this certainly seems like a 2 man draft as far as the Flyers are concerned. Maybe if we needed D Heiskanen could possibly be mentioned...but we don't.

[flyercanuck]

44 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

The one thing that stands out about Vilardi, which we do need and makes him very different from Coots is his shot. 

 

Yip...and Nico and Nolan both have one too!

[icehole]

I don't know squat about Vilardi, but Couturier's problems extend past his skating.  Yes, he is a slow skater, but his lack of aggression and intensity make him look worse.  He just doesn't have it in his DNA.

 

So if a player can't skate as well as we would hope, he can make up for it with some tenacity.  Does Vilardi have that or is he a timid kid?

 

As @flyercanuck said, 95% of experts say it's a 2 man race.  I have to believe they're right, but there's been surprises before.

[Podein25]

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Yip...and Nico and Nolan both have one too!

 

Fair enough. So, since the thread is already 13 pages, and I forget, if we were picking 1st who would you take?

[flyercanuck]

5 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Fair enough. So, since the thread is already 13 pages, and I forget, if we were picking 1st who would you take?

 

Oh I don't care. As long as it's not a long snapper.