Hextall's Offseason Moves

[elmatus]

6 hours ago, radoran said:

 

NSH did trade Weber for another established defenseman, but the Jones trade is a great example.

 

I understand the reticence with Drouin - and I share a lot of it. He just happens to neatly fill what is a pretty gaping hole at LW at this point (pending the arrival and success of Lindblom, etc.).

 

I really don't see Tampa moving him unless they get overpaid. Fun fact: Drouin was the third highest (and youngest) LW FA for points last season. You don't get that for spare parts and mid round picks.

 

Looking at the list - I wouldn't be averse to a 2-3 year deal for Vanek at/around his current $2.6M number...

 

I'm with you on everything except Vanek. I want nothing to do with him.

[radoran]

39 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I'm with you on everything except Vanek. I want nothing to do with him.

 

Short term, low risk, potentially high reward.

 

Like Drouin, I understand your reticence.

 

So, you're a Versteeg guy, then?

[JJMason33]

15 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I wouldn't say their value is on par. They've both been around for about the same time (though Drouin is younger). They've both managed some good seasons and some bad. Maybe when all is said and done, they'll be about on par, or maybe Ghost will even end up being a more effective player at this level. We won't know the answer to that for a while. 

 

That said, Drouin has two aces Ghost doesn't. For starters, he's been under the scope for many years as a top prospect. That's because he's been in the top echelon of players at every level. In his draft year, there was no doubt he would be one of the first to go. Everyone figured he would be an elite force at the NHL, as he had everywhere else. 

 

That really doesn't apply to Ghost. Ghost came into his own much later. Because of this, there remains more uncertainty for Ghost than Drouin. If Ghost never meets the lofty expectations set in his rookie year, he'll go down as a guy who showed some promise for a while but ultimately didn't pan out. If Drouin becomes anything less than an elite forward, he will be seen as a considerable flop. 

 

Secondly, Drouin is much more important to Tampa than Ghost is to the Flyers, or than he would be in Tampa for that matter.  Drouin is currently their highest potential young player, and is really the only such young player they have who is expected to play at an elite level (Kucherov notwithstanding). For Ghost, the situation is very different. He'll never be the top dman in his time in Philly. He lost that title in year two of his time at this level, and there's a good chance others will end up higher than him in the pecking order in years to come. 

 

That isn't to say Ghost isn't a great player, or that he won't continue to grow going forward. As with any young player comparison, there's no telling how things will pan out in 3-4-5 years as both of them get more experience. Still, for the time being, i would say Drouin's value is definitely above that of Ghost. In fact, given Drouin's important slot on the Bolts, it's hard to imagine a trade that wouldn't be an overpayment at this point. I wouldn't take the risk myself. 

Where Ghost was drafted or where he may be slotted in the Flyers lineup has no bearing on his value league wide.  What does matter is what he has done in his time in the Pros and what other teams may be offering.

 

Does Tampa need to move Drouin.  No.  Could trading him kill 2 birds with 1 stone (cap and defense) yes.  Lets not forget they have a guy named Stamkos that will be coming back next year.  They are a much better team then they showed this year skill wise.

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, JJMason33 said:

Where Ghost was drafted or where he may be slotted in the Flyers lineup has no bearing on his value league wide.  What does matter is what he has done in his time in the Pros and what other teams may be offering.

 

Does Tampa need to move Drouin.  No.  Could trading him kill 2 birds with 1 stone (cap and defense) yes.  Lets not forget they have a guy named Stamkos that will be coming back next year.  They are a much better team then they showed this year skill wise.

 

I think draft position absolutely does matter. When Tampa selected Drouin, they fully expected to get a guy who would be part of an elite core for the foreseeable future. They're not going to give that up without getting a substantial return. Just look at how long Yaks stuck around Edmonton. He was atrocious -- far worse than Drouin has been -- yet they kept him on the roster for ages anyway, simply because he was supposed to be an elite talent and a big part of their franchise turn around.

 

As far as Stamkos goes, I fully expect to see his number tail off in the next few years. He doesn't seem like the same player anymore, whether that's due to injuries, no longer having St. Louis around, or some combination of those plus more. I think we've seen the end of his 40-50 goal seasons. Of course, even if he just nets 30 this season, that's still fantastic. It's just not Stamkos-fantastic.

 

That said, if Tampa has an x-factor on the team right now, it isn't Stamkos, it's Drouin. I think it's a plausible assumption to say he is or was being groomed to fill the void left by St. Louis, which means he will very likely see substantial time with Stamkos this coming season. Whether that's enough is hard to say, but if my prediction on Stamkos turns out to be wrong in 2017-18, I'm willing to bet a big reason will be because of Drouin.

 

To get back to Ghost: Yeah, he's shown promise, especially in his rookie year. I absolutely hope he returns to form this coming season. To be 100% honest though, I don't really expect him to reproduce his rookie season every year. I have a strange feeling that was a bit of an anomaly. His totals last season were probably lower than what we can expect as well. More than likely he falls in the 50pt/year range, which is completely respectable for a dman in the NHL, but it isn't what you trade away Jonathan Drouin to acquire unless the rest of the package involves a considerable return, or you have a bunch of other similar elite-level prospects waiting to take his place (tampa doesn't).

 

Also, let's not forget we're getting no.2 this year. We're not a championship team in 2017-18. We can afford to wait and see what no.2 turns out to be. That could easily change this conversation entirely. What if Hischier turns into a top line LW sniper in the NHL? It's certainly possible.

[JJMason33]

14 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I think draft position absolutely does matter. When Tampa selected Drouin, they fully expected to get a guy who would be part of an elite core for the foreseeable future. They're not going to give that up without getting a substantial return. Just look at how long Yaks stuck around Edmonton. He was atrocious -- far worse than Drouin has been -- yet they kept him on the roster for ages anyway, simply because he was supposed to be an elite talent and a big part of their franchise turn around.

 

As far as Stamkos goes, I fully expect to see his number tail off in the next few years. He doesn't seem like the same player anymore, whether that's due to injuries, no longer having St. Louis around, or some combination of those plus more. I think we've seen the end of his 40-50 goal seasons. Of course, even if he just nets 30 this season, that's still fantastic. It's just not Stamkos-fantastic.

 

That said, if Tampa has an x-factor on the team right now, it isn't Stamkos, it's Drouin. I think it's a plausible assumption to say he is or was being groomed to fill the void left by St. Louis, which means he will very likely see substantial time with Stamkos this coming season. Whether that's enough is hard to say, but if my prediction on Stamkos turns out to be wrong in 2017-18, I'm willing to bet a big reason will be because of Drouin.

 

To get back to Ghost: Yeah, he's shown promise, especially in his rookie year. I absolutely hope he returns to form this coming season. To be 100% honest though, I don't really expect him to reproduce his rookie season every year. I have a strange feeling that was a bit of an anomaly. His totals last season were probably lower than what we can expect as well. More than likely he falls in the 50pt/year range, which is completely respectable for a dman in the NHL, but it isn't what you trade away Jonathan Drouin to acquire unless the rest of the package involves a considerable return, or you have a bunch of other similar elite-level prospects waiting to take his place (tampa doesn't).

 

Also, let's not forget we're getting no.2 this year. We're not a championship team in 2017-18. We can afford to wait and see what no.2 turns out to be. That could easily change this conversation entirely. What if Hischier turns into a top line LW sniper in the NHL? It's certainly possible.

We will see how contract negotiations go.  Drouin was not the 1st overall pick remember.  And he is not St. Louis replacement.  Drouin is more of a shooter, like Stamkos.  Almost as bad as having 2 passers on a line... Voracek, Giroux. 

 

If Drouin is still RFA at the entry draft you have to assume Tampa is going to listen to offers.

[elmatus]

15 hours ago, radoran said:

 

Short term, low risk, potentially high reward.

 

Like Drouin, I understand your reticence.

 

So, you're a Versteeg guy, then?

 

Not really. In fact, they both have a rather annoying tendency of only realizing they're playing in a hockey game about mid-way through the third period. Vanek in particular ranks at about a 2/10 on the consistent effort scale. I'll pass.

 

In looking at that list though, I wonder what it would take to snag Palat. Likely too much given he's an RFA and still young, but I'd be curious.

[OccamsRazor]

On 5/30/2017 at 10:19 PM, radoran said:

 

Short term, low risk, potentially high reward.

 

Like Drouin, I understand your reticence.

 

So, you're a Versteeg guy, then?

 

 

Wow i just started this Drouin talk because i was tired of kicking the can on the Nico or Patrick talk...something new to discuss...

 

...but i see Eklund and stirred up some crap about Flyers being interested in trading for him.....Meltzer mentioned there is no truth too it...hhhmmmm i hope Ek isn't using me as "anonymous source".......that turd!!! 

[JJMason33]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Wow i just started this Drouin talk because i was tired of kicking the can on the Nico or Patrick talk...something new to discuss...

 

...but i see Eklund and stirred up some crap about Flyers being interested in trading for him.....Meltzer mentioned there is no truth too it...hhhmmmm i hope Ek isn't using me as "anonymous source".......that turd!!! 

lol

 

While I think there is a small chance it happens, I still think both teams are talking.  Especially if Drouin is looking for a completely unfriendly contract.

 

So the way I look at it is if a trade was made Tampa wins if they get Sanheim/Myers plus.  Flyers win if they trade Ghost.  Looking at the make-up of the teams I saw there is a better chance that Hextall wins the trade because he is not under pressure to win now, while Yzerman has the Stamkos window and Ghost would be a huge boon to their defense.  You cant smother the point when you have guys like Stamkos and Kucherov down low.  Ghost should be able to be a 50-60 point player right away.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

48 minutes ago, JJMason33 said:

Sanheim/Myers

 

 

With all due respect i ain't moving either one of these guys...if i'm even thinking about it which i've already said i'm ok staying put...the guys i would move maybe would Ghost, Hagg or maybe even Morin...but the other two mentioned are certainly off limits.

 

And hey i know you have to give to get but most of these guys you don't even know what you have yet.

 

But say for instance what if the Blackhawks traded Duncan Keith after he finished his 1st AHL season or even before he got to play an AHL season??

 

Not saying these guys are the next Keith or anything but even Duncan Keith wasn't Duncan Keith till he was given time. It took him 5 full NHL seasons before they achieved the Cup.

 

At this point we don't know where these young Dmen will top out at but it takes longer for Dmen to develop and in NO way do i want to give Tampa that for a 20 goal scoring forward right now.

 

I prefer to hang out to this young blueline talent and see what it blossoms into. And this is just my opinion.

[flyercanuck]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

With all due respect i ain't moving either one of these guys...if i'm even thinking about it which i've already said i'm ok staying put...the guys i would move maybe would Ghost, Hagg or maybe even Morin...but the other two mentioned are certainly off limits.

 

And hey i know you have to give to get but most of these guys you don't even know what you have yet.

 

But say for instance what if the Blackhawks traded Duncan Keith after he finished his 1st AHL season or even before he got to play an AHL season??

 

Not saying these guys are the next Keith or anything but even Duncan Keith wasn't Duncan Keith till he was given time. It took him 5 full NHL seasons before they achieved the Cup.

 

At this point we don't know where these young Dmen will top out at but it takes longer for Dmen to develop and in now way do i want to give Tampa that for a 20 goal scoring forward right now.

 

I prefer to hang out to this young blueline talent and see what it blossoms into. And this is just my opinion.

 

Mine too!

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Mine too!

 

 

I know some have an itchy inpatient finger but i say no stay the course...the grass is not greener on the other side...remain patient to see where this talent takes them.

 

I have never seen the Flyers win a Cup and i'm as ancy as anyone but this is a new way of building towards the ultimate goal no way do i feel like bailing now a Drouin type now. 

[JJMason33]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I know some have an itchy inpatient finger but i say no stay the course...the grass is not greener on the other side...remain patient to see where this talent takes them.

 

I have never seen the Flyers win a Cup and i'm as ancy as anyone but this is a new way of building towards the ultimate goal no way do i feel like bailing now a Drouin type now. 

I would also not trade Sanheim, Myers, Provorov, or Morin.  I think both Hagg and Ghost's skill sets can be replaced by the afore mentioned.  And believe me I am not an impatient guy, its not like I am asking them to use one of these guys and trade for JVR or Duechene.  However, if a fair deal would come up where we could exchange one of our young defense (Ghost or Hagg) for a similar young forward (Drouin) then I would be trying to get something done.

 

At some point these defensemen are going to be hitting the NHL.  IMO and Hextall has said Sanheim, Morin, and Hagg are NHL ready.  But we don't have room for all 3 right now.  Would it be so bad if Ghost was moved for Drouin?  If not I would still keep my eye out for a team that is top heavy on forward talent but could use a defenseman like Ghost.

 

And don't get me wrong.  It looks like he have a bright future with #2, Lindblom, Konecny, and Rubtsov.  I'm just don't know if they will be star talent.

[OccamsRazor]

Wow i didn't realize Antti Raanta was signed for next year for only 1 mill.

 

Only 28 man i would love to get him from the Rangers and expose Neuvy.

 

Yeah i know a pipe dream no way Rangers trade him to Philly.

[AJgoal]

30 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Wow i didn't realize Antti Raanta was signed for next year for only 1 mill.

 

Only 28 man i would love to get him from the Rangers and expose Neuvy.

 

Yeah i know a pipe dream no way Rangers trade him to Philly.

 

There are possibilities where Hextall talks to McPhee and asks him to draft an individual and flip him to Philly. McPhee might also just draft a few guys that he figures he can flip, even if he doesn't have a partner lined up.

[elmatus]

On 6/2/2017 at 1:33 PM, JJMason33 said:

I would also not trade Sanheim, Myers, Provorov, or Morin.  I think both Hagg and Ghost's skill sets can be replaced by the afore mentioned.  And believe me I am not an impatient guy, its not like I am asking them to use one of these guys and trade for JVR or Duechene.  However, if a fair deal would come up where we could exchange one of our young defense (Ghost or Hagg) for a similar young forward (Drouin) then I would be trying to get something done.

 

At some point these defensemen are going to be hitting the NHL.  IMO and Hextall has said Sanheim, Morin, and Hagg are NHL ready.  But we don't have room for all 3 right now.  Would it be so bad if Ghost was moved for Drouin?  If not I would still keep my eye out for a team that is top heavy on forward talent but could use a defenseman like Ghost.

 

And don't get me wrong.  It looks like he have a bright future with #2, Lindblom, Konecny, and Rubtsov.  I'm just don't know if they will be star talent.

 

I'm with you. If there were some way to make a Ghost for Drouin deal that wasn't lopsided in favour of the Bolts, I would consider it as well. You're right in that many of the upcoming dmen are likely to make Ghost increasingly expendable. Why not move him to get a forward with star potential?

 

The major problem I see is the Bolts have very little incentive to make such a trade unless it is strongly in their favour. At that point, I'm far less interested. Drouin, for all his promise, is not a sure bet. His past attitude problems may be more owing to his agent than him, but he has yet to really perform at the level he's expected to reach. Until he strings together an elite full season, he will remain a guy with tons of potential who may or may not pan out.

 

That said, I personally think he will pan out. I think he has all the tools, and I think he just needs to figure a few things out before he can really shine. He is still very young after all. If the trade is Ghost + not too much for Drouin, I think it would be worth considering. The problem is, I expect a trade for Drouin would be Ghost + too much for my tastes. I'm not sure it's worth the gamble at that point.

 

Ghost and a 2nd? Sure.

Ghost and a 1st? I'm liking it a lot less.

Ghost, one of our promising prospects, and a 2nd? That's getting rough in a hurry.

 

I guess I just don't know what the offer would have to be. I feel like it would inevitably teeter on potential overpayment, and I'm not sure Drouin has proven he's worth it just yet. Talk to me next Summer once he's amassed 80 pts running the Bolts PP and riding Stamkos' wing, and things will be different. It's just a gamble right now is all. He may never be that guy.

[radoran]

35 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I'm with you. If there were some way to make a Ghost for Drouin deal that wasn't lopsided in favour of the Bolts, I would consider it as well. You're right in that many of the upcoming dmen are likely to make Ghost increasingly expendable. Why not move him to get a forward with star potential?

 

With Ghosts's new deal they have a good chance to do just that, but I don't know that they need to do it until someone actually makes him increasingly expendable.

 

Good "problem" to have.

[RJ8812]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

With Ghosts's new deal they have a good chance to do just that, but I don't know that they need to do it until someone actually makes him increasingly expendable.

 

Good "problem" to have.

Exactly. There's no reason to move any of our defenseman right now, especially Gostisbehere. In a few years once they are more established and we know what we have? Yes 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I'm not moving Ghost. This is still a 40+ point per season defenseman. Say what you want about that, but that still counts for something. Let's not forget that Ghost was also asked to change his game fundamentally. If there's any heat on Ghost, it's because his head coach and the defensive coach thought they could turn him into something he isn't. Ghost is a might fine offensive defenseman and contrary to what some might think, offensive defensemen still play an integral role on teams. He's not a defensive stalwart and he had some issues recuperating from his hip injury (even though Ghost said he didn't have problems with his hip, he had the exact same surgery as Giroux and Giroux admitted he had issues with his hip). On top of it, look at who Ghost was partnered with this year. He had time with Manning and MacDonald. Enough said. Partner Ghost with Morin this year and it's a totally different game for Ghost. Honestly, I think Ghost is going to get 60 this year. I think he's motivated to prove people wrong and I think with Knoblauch being hired on, he's going to have a great influence on Ghost.

[OccamsRazor]

42 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm not moving Ghost. This is still a 40+ point per season defenseman. Say what you want about that, but that still counts for something. Let's not forget that Ghost was also asked to change his game fundamentally. If there's any heat on Ghost, it's because his head coach and the defensive coach thought they could turn him into something he isn't. Ghost is a might fine offensive defenseman and contrary to what some might think, offensive defensemen still play an integral role on teams. He's not a defensive stalwart and he had some issues recuperating from his hip injury (even though Ghost said he didn't have problems with his hip, he had the exact same surgery as Giroux and Giroux admitted he had issues with his hip). On top of it, look at who Ghost was partnered with this year. He had time with Manning and MacDonald. Enough said. Partner Ghost with Morin this year and it's a totally different game for Ghost. Honestly, I think Ghost is going to get 60 this year. I think he's motivated to prove people wrong and I think with Knoblauch being hired on, he's going to have a great influence on Ghost.

 

First thing they need to do is get him a steady partner who actually knows how to play actual defense.

 

Someone he can play off of and who is smart enough to know when to help cover for when he is pinching to help support the forwards in moving the puck up ice.

 

Someone he can develop some chemistry with.

 

Do that and i think he will flourish.

[RJ8812]

11 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

First thing they need to do is get him a steady partner who actually knows how to play actual defense.

 

Someone he can play off of and who is smart enough to know when to help cover for when he is pinching to help support the forwards in moving the puck up ice.

 

Someone he can develop some chemistry with.

 

Do that and i think he will flourish.

Probably have to go outside the organization for that right now. Down the line, it could be Morin, but I would like more of a veteran with Gostisbehere right now 

[flyercanuck]

13 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

. Honestly, I think Ghost is going to get 60 this year. I think he's motivated to prove people wrong and I think with Knoblauch being hired on, he's going to have a great influence on Ghost.

 

 

Now don't be putting the curse of jammer on Ghost!  

[OccamsRazor]

30 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Probably have to go outside the organization for that right now.

 

 

Name i'd throw in the hat would be Michael Stone.

 

He would be another right hand shot for the back end just turned 27 and coming off a one year 4 mill deal.

 

So i wonder what he would want. If they have to sign another vet i would kick the tires.

[murraycraven]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

Now don't be putting the curse of jammer on Ghost!  

 

this made me laugh out loud!! LOL!

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Anybody else surprised at how quiet it's been around the Flyers. Every other team, you hear at least whispers or potential deals. The Flyers seem to be eerily quiet, other than the Gostisbehere signing, but even then, nobody really knew until the morning twitter feed that something was coming. The shroud of secrecy and suspense Hextall works under is completely different from previous regimens. 

[flyercanuck]

Its nice having a gm who doesn't make deals just for the sake of it.