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JJMason33

Hextall's Offseason Moves

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7 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You are absolutely correct that keeping him at this point "doesn't" hurt the team, but I don't necessarily agree that having that salary hasn't hurt the team.

 

Were there no better FA options available over the past three years that that money could have been assigned to? Matt Niskanen in 2014 (signed for two years longer and $750K more but who had more NHL points last season than MacDonald has had in the past three years) for example?

 

The fact is that the contract has handcuffed the team - to the extent that they even had to bury him in the AHL.

 

It doesn't necessarily hurt the team rightnow but it does mean that the team effectively can't pursue the likes of Shattenkirk, Kulikov or Stone in the FA market this season. We can debate whether or not any of those guys - or Niskanen - would be a good "fit" for the Flyers, but IMO they're better than the $5M 5/6 defenceman they have. And having that 5/6 guy making a Top 4 salary means there isn't a spot for a better FA even if they wanted to get him.

 

YMMV.

 

To be clear, MacDonald is "an NHL player" - it's just that he's a Kris Russell and not a Kevin Shattenkirk. He's never been the guy he was touted to be and he never will be.

 

That said, I don't advocate for buying him out at this point but when they're looking for the money to re-sign Simmonds it wouldn't surprise me to see them do it in June of 2019.

 

You're right.  It was a terrible contract and if we could have unloaded MacDonald three years ago and acquired Niskanen, we'd all be much happier and especially Scott Laughton. Holmgren made a terrible mistake.  Of the MANY MANY MANY PATHETIC TERRIBLE SHAMEFUL mistakes Homer made, I don't rank this within the top 5, mostly because in his stint with the Flyers leading up to the signing, MacDonald looked quite good to my eyes... like not just good, but good with potential to be better and really be a leader as a play driving, secure 2 way D man...  not sure what happened, but I think it rhymes with "Craig Berube". Anyway, it was none the less a terrible mistake on Homer's part and it DID hurt the team.  

 

But that's in the past.  It frustrates the hell out of me. But there's nothing to be done about the past 4 years.  If there was a 1LW or a 1D to play along side Provo that we're not getting in the UFA market because of MacDonald's contract, I'd be all over the hate wagon.  But there isn't.  So we endure a mediocre MacDonald for another year.  

 

I don't advocate buying him out now either.  His buyout is much much less of a hurdle in 2019 when it could come in handy.  You're right.  Until then, if he's getting outplayed, make him the #7 or send him to the AHL.  Either way, you don't need his cap space.  If Hexy decides to go for a vet or trade for a Hjalmarsson type, he can always bury Mac in the AHL then or consider the buyout just to get his roster spot available.  

 

However, I'm seriously not sure what resigning Simmonds should look like in two years, but that's a different thread.

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2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Right, so that takes care of this season (which we're already in agreement that AMac doesn't affect) but it doesn't really address the past three does it?

 

You can believe that a player taking up 7% of the cap doesn't have any affect on the decisions that the team makes - and that's fine - I just disagree.

 

Signing MacDonald to that deal was a mistake, pure and simple. It was when it happened and it remains so now.

The move to acquire MacDonald was dumb to begin with. It was done to boost this team's Cup chances, which were slim even after we acquired him. The extension was even worse and made no sense 

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Just now, King Knut said:

You're right.  It was a terrible contract and if we could have unloaded MacDonald three years ago and acquired Niskanen, we'd all be much happier and especially Scott Laughton.

 

They wouldn't have had to "unload" him - they could have signed Niskanen instead.

 

But, of course, Homer had given up a 2nd and a 3rd for the right to give a bad contract to MacDonald so...

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13 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

While I agree with your points about his salary blinding people, this is also more of an indictment of last years D corps, than a reflection of his strong play.  On the Flyers he's a top 4 defenseman, on most playoff teams he's not.  Hell, Streit was top 4 for Philly, got traded to Pitt, and even with all their playoff injuries, was still the LAST defenseman they went with to fill in.  

 

He's not that good...his contract just magnifies that fact.  

 

His contract magnified it  in the past.  Right now his contract isn't a factor.  Streit was a top 4 for Philly because he still had great offensive numbers.  The Flyers also got significantly better shortly after he left.    He was a problem.  So was MDZ (though I will say that MDZ seemed to get better after Streit left too).   

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Just now, RJ8812 said:

The move to acquire MacDonald was dumb to begin with. It was done to boost this team's Cup chances, which were slim even after we acquired him. The extension was even worse and made no sense 

 

My "favorite" part is that Homer at the time said they had discussed a longer deal for MacDonald...

 

No doubt some of the irritation with MacDonald is misplaced Homeritis, but it's still valid :)

 

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

They wouldn't have had to "unload" him - they could have signed Niskanen instead.

 

But, of course, Homer had given up a 2nd and a 3rd for the right to give a bad contract to MacDonald so...

 

Sorry, poor choice of words.  I was rushing.

 

And trust me, you will get NO argument from me when Bashing Homer.  He was TERRIBLE.  After 2010 he was just erratic and kind of crazy in his decisions.  Something snapped in his brain.  Not sure what.  I think he thought he was going to get Snider that one last cup and when Leaky let the cup losing goal sneak by him, he just lost his stuffing.  

 

HOWEVER, just to play Devil's advocate, Niskanen onto the Flyers team of the last 4 years would NOT have yielded the same Niskanen we've seen.  I'd still rather have him... but trust me.  Nowhere near as good and probably suspended 5 more times if he's a Flyer.

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2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

My "favorite" part is that Homer at the time said they had discussed a longer deal for MacDonald...

 

No doubt some of the irritation with MacDonald is misplaced Homeritis, but it's still valid :)

 

 

Well if they'd have signed him for ten years a 3 million per year, we'd all still be scratching our heads, but we wouldnt' be quite as hateful as we have been.  

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2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

My "favorite" part is that Homer at the time said they had discussed a longer deal for MacDonald...

 

No doubt some of the irritation with MacDonald is misplaced Homeritis, but it's still valid :)

 

Holmgren was only doing what he was told by Snider.  Snider wanted another Cup before he passed. God rest his soul, but Snider really hurt this team after the 2010 run. He forced Holmgren to make a lot of moves that he may not have even wanted to do 

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4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

His contract magnified it  in the past.  Right now his contract isn't a factor.  Streit was a top 4 for Philly because he still had great offensive numbers.  The Flyers also got significantly better shortly after he left.    He was a problem.  So was MDZ (though I will say that MDZ seemed to get better after Streit left too).   

Disagree...the contract was a factor, is a factor, and will continue to be a factor until he's gone..  Regardless of stance on contract, it doesn't change the fact that he's simply not a good defenseman-which is the most important factor .   

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3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Sorry, poor choice of words.  I was rushing.

 

And trust me, you will get NO argument from me when Bashing Homer.  He was TERRIBLE.  After 2010 he was just erratic and kind of crazy in his decisions.  Something snapped in his brain.  Not sure what.  I think he thought he was going to get Snider that one last cup and when Leaky let the cup losing goal sneak by him, he just lost his stuffing.  

 

HOWEVER, just to play Devil's advocate, Niskanen onto the Flyers team of the last 4 years would NOT have yielded the same Niskanen we've seen.  I'd still rather have him... but trust me.  Nowhere near as good and probably suspended 5 more times if he's a Flyer.

Something snapped...yes his name was Ed Snider

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2 minutes ago, King Knut said:

HOWEVER, just to play Devil's advocate, Niskanen onto the Flyers team of the last 4 years would NOT have yielded the same Niskanen we've seen.  I'd still rather have him... but trust me.  Nowhere near as good and probably suspended 5 more times if he's a Flyer.

 

Agreed. As I said we can debate whether any of those guys would have made a difference.

 

And it's hard to gauge "moves not made" because the opportunity wasn't there.

 

Just now, RJ8812 said:

Holmgren was only doing what he was told by Snider.  Snider wanted another Cup before he passed. God rest his soul, but Snider really hurt this team after the 2010 run. He forced Holmgren to make a lot of moves that he may not have even wanted to do 

 

I think this let's Homer off the hook too much. Snider is on record saying he wanted to solve the goalie issue, for example, but I just don't believe he said to Homer "sign Bryzgalov!" I think, again as an example, that he said "solve the goalie issue" and Homer said "our hockey guys like Bryzgalov" and Snider signed off on their opinion.

 

I also don't think it was Snider who said "go after Parise and Suter" (even though both had said they weren't interested in Philadelphia). It was Homer that left Jagr dangling in the breeze.

 

Snider no doubt "wanted another Cup" but I don't think he was intimately involved in selecting individual players. He trusted the judgement of his "hockey guys."

 

That's all on Homer.

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4 minutes ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Disagree...the contract was a factor, is a factor, and will continue to be a factor until he's gone..  Regardless of stance on contract, it doesn't change the fact that he's simply not a good defenseman-which is the most important factor .   

 

The contract is literally not a factor right now.  It's not hindering anything.  The roster spot is more of a factor right now.  

Next year if they can't sign someone they really want (say #2 dies in a car crash and they want to sign Tavares)  they can start Mac's buyout a year early and it won't be a factor then either.  YOu'd have to dig really hard and get really creative to make Amac's contract a problem for this team right now.  

 

Could they have a better player instead of him?  Sure!  But would that better player be a part of things for the flyers plan for the future any more than Amac is now?  Probably not.  

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12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Agreed. As I said we can debate whether any of those guys would have made a difference.

 

And it's hard to gauge "moves not made" because the opportunity wasn't there.

 

 

I think this let's Homer off the hook too much. Snider is on record saying he wanted to solve the goalie issue, for example, but I just don't believe he said to Homer "sign Bryzgalov!" I think, again as an example, that he said "solve the goalie issue" and Homer said "our hockey guys like Bryzgalov" and Snider signed off on their opinion.

 

I also don't think it was Snider who said "go after Parise and Suter" (even though both had said they weren't interested in Philadelphia). It was Homer that left Jagr dangling in the breeze.

 

Snider no doubt "wanted another Cup" but I don't think he was intimately involved in selecting individual players. He trusted the judgement of his "hockey guys."

 

That's all on Homer.

I don't disagree but I still think Snider put a lot of pressure on Holmgren in making certain moves in order to get a Cup.

 

Regardless, the moment Holmgren decided to move Richards and Carter, we should have been in rebuild mode.

Edited by RJ8812
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Well Kris Russell is a UFA and i think he would be a great choice for the vet presence back on the blueline.

 

Oilers might resign him though.

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7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well Kris Russell is a UFA and i think he would be a great choice for the vet presence back on the blueline.

 

Oilers might resign him though.

If he wants to win a Cup, he would be stupid to leave Edmonton right now 

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10 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

If he wants to win a Cup, he would be stupid to leave Edmonton right now 

 

I agree. Just pointing out a good vet Dmen who can show the kids how to play defense whom the Flyers need.

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Now that Anaheim is out and Bob Murray is going to have an incredibly tough time deciding who to protect, I'd like to see Hextall offer something like the rights to MacDonald, a 3rd and a 4th this year and get a player back like Rackell or Silfverberg. Anaheim is going to be in a position where they're going to lose someone, so why not try to limit who they have to expose, get a player back that can be exposed and get some assets that can be used to draft other players or used to parlay into other players. 

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12 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Now that Anaheim is out and Bob Murray is going to have an incredibly tough time deciding who to protect, I'd like to see Hextall offer something like the rights to MacDonald, a 3rd and a 4th this year and get a player back like Rackell or Silfverberg. Anaheim is going to be in a position where they're going to lose someone, so why not try to limit who they have to expose, get a player back that can be exposed and get some assets that can be used to draft other players or used to parlay into other players. 

 

I'm afraid it will cost you more than Mcdud and a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

And it would be for the soon to be 27 year old Silfverberg than the younger Rakell the pot will have to be sweeten for sure with many teams needing that type of help and now who gets exposed with that acquisition??

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2 hours ago, DaGreatGazoo said:

Disagree...the contract was a factor, is a factor, and will continue to be a factor until he's gone..  Regardless of stance on contract, it doesn't change the fact that he's simply not a good defenseman-which is the most important factor .   

 

 

:cheers:

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13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I'm afraid it will cost you more than Mcdud and a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

And it would be for the soon to be 27 year old Silfverberg than the younger Rakell the pot will have to be sweeten for sure with many teams needing that type of help and now who gets exposed with that acquisition??

 

Yeah, Anaheim's not giving up a (30+ or 20+) goal scoring winger for a boat anchor defenceman with a terrible contract. If either of those guys are available, they'll get a better return from someone for them. For that matter, Anaheim can protect them both if they want to.

 

Moreover, both guys are Right Wings (or C/RW) and the Flyers already have Voracek, Simmonds and Weise on the right side for at least the next two seasons. Where do they play Rakell or Silfverberg?

 

The real question for Anaheim is does Bieska drop his NMC and let them protect Fowler/Vantanen.

Edited by radoran
making agreeance clear
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3 minutes ago, radoran said:

Anaheim's not giving up a (30+ or 20+) goal scoring winger for a boat anchor defenceman with a terrible contract. If either of those guys are available, they'll get a better return from someone for them. For that matter, Anaheim can protect them both if they want to.

 

Uh i'm assuming you DIDN'T read my post and that was intended for Bobby because that is sort of what i said....

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

Uh i'm assuming you DIDN'T read my post and that was intended for Bobby because that is sort of what i said....

 

Uh, I was agreeing with you.

 

It happens, you know.

 

:cheers:

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Just now, radoran said:

 

Uh, I was agreeing with you.

 

It happens, you know.

 

:cheers:

 

Oh is that what that looks like.....i'd heard stories of it...just never seen it....good i have screenshot it for my records!!!

 

:beer:

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Oh is that what that looks like.....i'd heard stories of it...just never seen it....good i have screenshot it for my records!!!

 

:beer:

 

Wasn't the first time. Won't be the last.

 

I edited my post to make it clearer.

 

:hyper:

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6 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Wasn't the first time. Won't be the last.

 

I edited my post to make it clearer.

 

:hyper:

 

Yeah those guys are the type you build around.

 

The guys they need to be moving on from however are the guys getting long in the tooth and who have NMC's.

 

One of the 3 of Perry ( 3 more year at 8.6mill) Getzlaf (3 x 8.2mill) or Kesler (4 x 6.8mill)....

 

..those are some of the guys i would be convincing to waive their NMC along with Bieksa too...

Edited by OccamsRazor

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