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Hextall's Offseason Moves


JJMason33

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19 minutes ago, radoran said:

@AJgoal

 

I concur that getting more production from the fourth line is important for the team, especially in the modern day NHL.

 

The fly in your fourth-line ointment, however, is "Pebbles" who just got a hefty raise (despite his production) and a leadership letter on his sweater.

 

Presuming they go with Vecchione as the fourth line center (like you, I doubt this) where does that leave Bellemare? Is Vegas going to snap up a guy with eight points last season making $1.45M for the next two? Are the Flyers sending their newly-anointed Assistant Captain to the AHL? Like it or not, PEB is almost assuredly back as your fourth line center.

 

And, for that matter, I'm going to need to see a lot more from Vecchione before I'm slotting him into a regular spot on the lineup. I'm not writing him off, just not counting him in.

 

I'll also presume you meant Laughton scoring 5-on-5 rate in 15-16 (as he had zero goals in two games in 16-17), but that still turned out to be all of seven goals in 71 games. Bellemare likewise had 7 goals in 74 games (with no power play time) in 15-16.

 

I just don't get all the Laughton love. Again not a case of "hindsight" but I would have taken Maatta with that pick 11 times out of 10. But that's water under the bridge. At this point, he's the least impactful first round forward pick by the Flyers in the past 25 years.

Bellemare has and can and will play wing.  And I have moved on from the Laughton experiment.

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3 minutes ago, JJMason33 said:

Bellemare has and can and will play wing.  And I have moved on from the Laughton experiment.

 

I would slide Belle over as well...

 

Laughton, to me anyway, is in the "make or break" year with the Flyers.  If he can't make it this year out of camp you either move him or come to grips he might just be an "tweener."   Either way it is not what you want/expect out of a first round pick.

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12 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

In hindsight Maatta should have been the pick but can he really be any worse than VDV on the 4th?

 

The fact that they've been playing 28-to-30-year-old fourth round never-has-been Vandevelde instead of Laughton is telling.

 

I get the idea that they wanted Laughton to be more of an offensive threat and get some seasoning in the A, but - GEEZ.

 

(And, again, I (and Many others) wanted Maatta at the time - not just "in hindsight").

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15 minutes ago, JJMason33 said:

Bellemare has and can and will play wing.  And I have moved on from the Laughton experiment.

 

In fact, Bellemare had never played center before coming to the NHL.

 

True story.

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9 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

The fact that they've been playing 28-to-30-year-old fourth round never-has-been Vandevelde instead of Laughton is telling.

 

I get the idea that they wanted Laughton to be more of an offensive threat and get some seasoning in the A, but - GEEZ.

 

(And, again, I (and Many others) wanted Maatta at the time - not just "in hindsight").

 

Oh, dont get me wrong here... I totally agree.   I thought Laughton was a head scratcher as well and also wanted Maatta.   I just think if Laughton can't make the jump this year then it might be time to move him or just come to the realization that he is not the player who they thought he was...

 

And regarding VDV - I could not agree more.   He must own come incriminating pictures of Hak.

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7 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

Oh, dont get me wrong here... I totally agree.   I thought Laughton was a head scratcher as well and also wanted Maatta.   I just think if Laughton can't make the jump this year then it might be time to move him or just come to the realization that he is not the player who they thought he was...

 

Do you think the "change of scenery" from Lehigh Valley to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton will make that much of a difference?

 

:hocky:

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3 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 Holmgren then proceeded to delay the rebuild by continuing to chase the playoffs.

 

Great point.

 

I can't say for sure but the reason he ignored it was he didn't know how.

 

Or he did but he didn't want to plant the seed and wait for it to grow. Basically he was impatient and he wanted results now. And it didn't work.

 

I think now finally we have a guy in place with a plan and the patience to see it through.

 

Fans be damned he is doing it the right way in his mind. And well from the looks of it i think it will pay off but still some time before we know.

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43 minutes ago, radoran said:

I just don't get all the Laughton love. Again not a case of "hindsight" but I would have taken Maatta with that pick 11 times out of 10. But that's water under the bridge. At this point, he's the least impactful first round forward pick by the Flyers in the past 25 years.

I don't "love" Laughton, but I think he has better upside than Read, Bellemare, and Weise at this stage of the game, and would prefer to go with the younger, cheaper player and try to maximize the upside. Chances are you're not going to get less out of him than the others, so why not see if you have something there? That's all I'm gunning for.

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18 minutes ago, radoran said:

Do you think the "change of scenery" from Lehigh Valley to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton will make that much of a difference?

 

 

Well from his head coaches (Gordon's) comments it sounds like he is coming around and doing what they asked of him.

 

They asked him to work on his play away from the puck and not concentrate on offense.

 

They left him off the powerplay so he could work on his 5 on 5 play now he still saw a lot of time on the PK it why he was tied for the AHL lead in shorthanded goals with 4. So from the comments Gordon said he had made huge strides.

 

So i guess we'll see. He played in 60 games 19 goals 20 assists 39 points and was +17 (which lead all forwards on the team) and a 14.7 shooting percentage.

 

So if anything he has regained his confidence and will push hard for a spot this upcoming camp/preseason.

 

But as someone stated it is a pivotal year for him. Fingers crossed.

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1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

So if anything he has regained his confidence and will push hard for a spot this upcoming camp/preseason.

 

But as someone stated it is a pivotal year for him. Fingers crossed.

 

The hard truth is that unless someone gets moved, there's one, maybe two (pending Vegas) spots on the roster open (maybe three if you count a 13th forward).

 

And that's presuming #2 and/or Rubstov and/or Lindblom and/or Weal and/or Cousins and/or Vecchione and/or Aube-Kubel and/or Vorobyov (and/or VDV) aren't occupying them.

 

He'll have to blow some doors off. If he does - terrific.

 

And, of course, they still need to re-sign him...

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16 minutes ago, radoran said:

He'll have to blow some doors off. If he does - terrific.

 

Sure but of the guys you mentioned only Cousins and Weal will be trying for the same spot. Rubtsov will go back to juniors.

 

Aube-Kubel and Vorobyov as well as maybe even Lindblom will maybe start in the AHL. NAK especially has a lot to work on.

 

Lindblom has the best chance to steal a spot on the Flyers.

 

So i can see it being like this:

 

Lindblom-Giroux-Voracek

Weal-Filppula-Simmer

TK-Coots-Schenn

Laughton-Vecchione-Weise

Bellemare- Raffl

 

Ivan-Gudas

Ghost-Morin

Hagg-Mcdud

Manning

 

Neuvy

Budaj

 

What am i forgetting?

 

And i guess you could put Lindblom in the AHL if you wanted to play Bellemare or Raffl.

 

Cousins could be shown the door or his rights traded maybe?

 

Edit: I left TK off ok.....someone gets traded....Read??

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33 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I don't "love" Laughton, but I think he has better upside than Read, Bellemare, and Weise at this stage of the game, and would prefer to go with the younger, cheaper player and try to maximize the upside. Chances are you're not going to get less out of him than the others, so why not see if you have something there? That's all I'm gunning for.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with going younger and cheaper, but they just re-signed Bellemare for two years and gave him an A so he's not going anywhere and Weise still has three more years on his deal (which IMO would be hard to move).

 

Read's an interesting subject. There's the chance that Vegas takes him (I think it's slim, but it's there).

 

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Lindblom-Giroux-Voracek

 

Weal-Fillipulla-Simmer

Read-Coots-Schenn

Laughton-Vecchione-Weise

Bellemare- Raffl

 

IMO there's no way Bellemare and Raffl are on the outside looking in. They didn't give Pebbles* a two year deal and the A to make him a 13th forward. Vegas could take Raffl, I guess? But I don't think they re-signed him for three years with the idea that he'd be a 13th forward, either.

 

And, of course, there's Hackstol's boy VDV tanned, rested and ready... :rage:

 

If Laughton and Vecchione play their way onto the roster, terrific. But quite frankly I think they're both Phantoms next season (again, pending trades and/or Vegas).

 

I don't like the Pebbles/Reads/Waffles/Weises of the world taking up the roster spots. But they are taking up roster spots...

 

 

 

* I just saw this earlier today, I think(?) in a @murraycraven post? I love it!!! :hehe:

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6 minutes ago, radoran said:

IMO there's no way Bellemare and Raffl are on the outside looking in. They didn't give Pebbles* a two year deal and the A to make him a 13th forward.

 

Yeah but some would say no way the scratch Weise after just giving him a 4 year deal to but we saw him scratch for sure....so.

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah but some would say no way the scratch Weise after just giving him a 4 year deal to but we saw him scratch for sure....so.

 

Weise is definitely in the "bad" column for Hextall at this point. More than doubling his salary for twice the length of his previous contract is beyond a "head scratcher"

 

Weise is the new Shelley...

 

:angry:

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10 minutes ago, radoran said:

They didn't give Pebbles* a two year deal and the A to make him a 13th forward.

 

 

They also didn't have the 2nd overall pick when they signed him and Vecchione too. Things change so plans change.

 

So some of these guys can/could be moved to make room.

 

Can't say what Ron has planned.

 

He could for conversation's sake trade Bellemare at the draft or Read or Raffl.

 

Who knows just guessing at this point. But i have to think these type of guys have value.

 

Belly just played really well at the IIFH games. So we'll see.

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Just now, OccamsRazor said:

Who knows just guessing at this point. But i have to think these type of guys have value.

 

Belly just played really well at the IIFH games. So we'll see.

 

Oh, I think they have value. I just also think that Pebbles "playing really well at the IIFH" would be an argument against them moving him.

 

If Laughton/Vecchione/whoever forces Hextall's hand (as Ghost did) then I do believe Hextall will make a move to give them their shot.

 

But IMO they really have to blow the doors off.

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5 minutes ago, radoran said:

If Laughton/Vecchione/whoever forces Hextall's hand (as Ghost did) then I do believe Hextall will make a move to give them their shot.

 

Well in Vecchione case he has waiver exemption this year i think for 60 games or so IIRC so they could send him down i guess to not be forced to do something and to make room for others who are not waiver exempt. So there is some wiggle room.

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10 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Oh, I think they have value. I just also think that Pebbles "playing really well at the IIFH" would be an argument against them moving him.

 

If Laughton/Vecchione/whoever forces Hextall's hand (as Ghost did) then I do believe Hextall will make a move to give them their shot.

 

But IMO they really have to blow the doors off.

 

 

So speaking of the kids....

 

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks-should-sign-free-agent-centre-jordan-weal

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5 hours ago, AJgoal said:

Ignoring the 2011 draft since those moves were made before the Richards/Carter deals, Holmgren traded away three second round picks in 2012. The third rounder he traded away that year (part of the Bryz deal) would have seen Matt Murray, Frederick Andersen, and Colton Parayko still on the board

 

 

Speaking of which....

 

Top 5: Players the Flyers Skipped Over in the Draft

 

https://phillyisflyer.com/2017/04/29/top-5-players-skipped-over-int-he-draft/

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4 hours ago, JJMason33 said:

Lets be honest here.  That Cup final team only made the playoffs because of a shootout on the last day.  Its not like they were president trophy winners one day and shlubs the next.

It was also widely perceived that that team underachieved all year and they didn't "scrape" into the playoffs with 80points or some **** either. That was a good team that benefited from the coaching change from Stevens to Laviolette.

I always find the argument that the 2010 finals team wasn't good and caught lightning in a bottle to be misleading at best. Look at that roster, it was stacked. 

 

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2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

Oh, dont get me wrong here... I totally agree.   I thought Laughton was a head scratcher as well and also wanted Maatta.   I just think if Laughton can't make the jump this year then it might be time to move him or just come to the realization that he is not the player who they thought he was...

 

And regarding VDV - I could not agree more.   He must own come incriminating pictures of Hak.

 

I get the VDV thing.  I really do.

 

You can REASON through the idea that playing VDV on the 4th line (because he'll never be more than that) makes sense over putting Laughton or Cousins or Weal (guys you think could be top 9 material) on a checking unit with PEB and Lyubimov that will not enable them to develop their games.  So you let them work on being a top 9 guy in the AHL or the NHL off and on and you leave the bland guy on the NHL 4th.  

 

If you're fond of the guy, you can feel good about the fact that you're giving him an NHL paycheck for a couple of years before he embarks on the rest of his career in the minor leagues and coaching high school.  

 

Still... PEB, Laughton and Colin McDonald?  I would like to have seen that 4th line last year.  

 

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22 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Look at that roster, it was stacked. 

 

 

Yes and they had some great support guys who sometimes get overlooked like Asham, Powe, Betts, Lappy and even Carcillo.

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3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Speaking of which....

 

Top 5: Players the Flyers Skipped Over in the Draft

 

https://phillyisflyer.com/2017/04/29/top-5-players-skipped-over-int-he-draft/

 

What I will say is that Luca Sbisa was excellent and should have been a knockout NHL player.  He was sent back to juniors where his coach reportedly played him 40 minutes a night because he was just so damn good.

 

He lost A TON of weight.  When they tried to bring him back to the NHL on his new team he got hurt.  He was never the same.  It's a shame.  But Sbisa though a bit small, was an extremely promising player for the Flyers.  

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