The Tavares problem

[yave1964]

  New Islanders ownership group led by John Ledecky and Scott Malkin are faced with a conundrum even bigger than where the team will eventually play, they are faced with team star John Tavares staring at free agency at the end of the season and on top of needing to finalzie a deal for a barn to play in they need to get to work on either signing Tavares or trading him. Tavares is 26 years old and coming into his prime and in the last year of a deal scheduled to pay him six million for the 2017-18 season. The Isles have had talks about getting something down for Tavares but so far he is being coy and keeping his options open.

 

  Essentially Tavares is sayingall the right things but hedging his bets, the Isles are trying to figure out a way to bring him some new toys to play with to entice him to take their money instead of pursuing other avenues and so far Johnnie boy is playing it cool. He is going to get somewhere in the vacinity of ten million a year for eight years from someone it is just a matter of whose gold he wants to go and get. Darren Dreger who gets more right than wrong seems to think that if nothing is ironed out or if not at least looking positive by the draft that the Isles may seriously consider dealing him away. 

 

  I have to agree with Dreger, the Avalanche held out too long on Duchene and MacKinnon and did not make a deal at the deadline but that is okay, they still have their rights as they are under contract. If Tavares makes it to next July with no deal the Isles essentially are faced with the disaster of receiving absolutely nothing for a young star. The time for maximum return is now, before the season starts. If the Isles enter the new year in playoff contention  they certainly could not deal him away then,

 

  Possible destinations that i have read are Montreal with disgruntled and underperforming Alex Galchenyuk as part of the return, Carolina with Faulk and a choice of any forward not named Skinner or Aho in the package back, Nashville and Ottawa both swung and missed on Duchene, both would kill to have Tavares centering their top line.

 

  I am not saying he is going to be dealt just that it would not surprise me and every day that goes by without a deal in place it becomes more and more of a possibility.

  

[radoran]

Anybody that gives Tavares $10M for eight years will regret it by Y3.

[yave1964]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

Anybody that gives Tavares $10M for eight years will regret it by Y3.

Absolutely no ifs and or buts I agree with all of my heart but that is what he is looking for and someone is going to do it. Still in his mid twenties and a point a game producer or nearly so with a not ready for prime time cast of characters around him more often than not. 

 

  To me tho the Isles need to figure out their brand with no barn to play in and the star player looking as if he quietly wants to get out, they need to aggressively address this now. Maybe Tavares can get Rick Dipietro to act as his agent, lol. 

[ruxpin]

Tavares blamed the Brooklyn ice for his injury, didn't he?  Between that, a crap team around him and a Mickey Mouse front office (among other things), I don't see him resigning with the Isles. 

 

I agree with Rad:  anyone giving Tavares $10M/8 yrs. will regret it early in the contract. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Tavares blamed the Brooklyn ice for his injury, didn't he?  Between that, a crap team around him and a Mickey Mouse front office (among other things), I don't see him resigning with the Isles. 

 

I agree with Rad:  anyone giving Tavares $10M/8 yrs. will regret it early in the contract. 

 

Best thing they can do is get rid of Garth Snow.

 

If it does come to a trade i wouldn't want him pulling the strings on it for sure.

 

There would be a nice market him if a trade is what he wants.

[B21]

On 6/13/2017 at 8:39 PM, ruxpin said:

Tavares blamed the Brooklyn ice for his injury, didn't he?  Between that, a crap team around him and a Mickey Mouse front office (among other things), I don't see him resigning with the Isles. 

 

I agree with Rad:  anyone giving Tavares $10M/8 yrs. will regret it early in the contract. 

 

While I agree with the $10M per for 8 year, I think the Isles are in a position where they almost have to pay him. This is basically a nomadic team that only draws when they are winning (not unique but still). To lose the face of the franchise just as he is about to hit his prime would be nothing short of catastrophic. 

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, B21 said:

 

While I agree with the $10M per for 8 year, I think the Isles are in a position where they almost have to pay him. This is basically a nomadic team that only draws when they are winning (not unique but still). To lose the face of the franchise just as he is about to hit his prime would be nothing short of catastrophic. 

Oh, I completely agree. It should also be the ONLY team that considers that amount and length. Oddly, the Isles will be bidding against themselves and still lose. 

[yave1964]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Oh, I completely agree. It should also be the ONLY team that considers that amount and length. Oddly, the Isles will be bidding against themselves and still lose. 

Man that is exactly it, the Isles are in a no win situation. They have no barn to play in, nobody wants them and the face of the franchise will either be overpaid or have to be traded because he does not want to be there.

 

  And if it is gonna happen it needs to happen during the offseason. Lets say that he is still unsigned at the start of the year and the Isles catch lightning in a bottle and are in the running for a playoff spot, even knowing he is gonna walk they have to hold onto him or risk alienating their seventeen fans that they have left. There is no way that the Isles should enter the season with an unsigned Tavares on the team. 

 

  

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Man, some teams in pro sports simply CANNOT get out of their own way:

 

The New York Mets, San Diego Padres, Seattle Mariners and Toronto Blue Jays in MLB.

The Raiders, Rams, Bengals, Redskins, and Dolphins in the NFL.

 

And we have the NY Islanders in the NHL.

 

All teams who end up with really good players, yet fail to maximize those players with proper filling out of the supporting cast or have the team succumb to massive injuries (on a regular annual basis).

These teams tease fans by looking like they've turned corners, and may have even had some pretty good seasons....only to revert back to their losing and/or mediocre injury plagues, sub par performing ways.

 

I am not sure how long it has to go on, but if all else has been tried, and the team is STILL in the same ol vicious cycle of mediocrity, then the GM himself has to be looked at as the problem!

 

Dunno. Maybe Garth Snow has some incriminating evidence against Islanders' ownership.

Maybe there is some cache of dirty pictures ol Garthy is saving in his hard drive....JUST in case the Wangs get any funny ideas about firing him...

 

Whatever the case, the Islanders, just when you think they are getting better, continue to be a sideshow (in more ways than one), and if I am John Tavares, I look at upcoming free agency as a "get out of jail" card.

 

So what THAT means is, the Islander FO should be making a deal sooner rather than later in order to maximize the return, as many have said already, on the superstar player.

 

This situation is not too different than the one TB faced with Steven Stamkos in the sense that both teams had a superstar player in his prime about to go to free agency with the vulture GM's of other teams circling the skies.

 

The main difference, of course, is that TB has Yzerman running the show, while the Islanders have Snow.

Stamkos expressed his desire to stay and win with the franchise that drafted him...and even took less money in AAV to stay there.

 

John Tavares has expressed NO SUCH endorsement for the NY Islanders.

 

If Garth Snow is smart (please people...hold the giggling till I am finished), he will be working those phones hard to get a very good deal done for Tavares and at least give the Isles a fighting chance down the road in a few seasons.

 

But he IS Garth Snow. He still thinks his club is on the rise. He still thinks those dirty photos of Charles' Wang and/or Jon Ledecky wearing a tutu will ensure he never gets removed from the GM's chair. And so he likely still thinks John Tavares believes the Islanders are the greatest place in the NHL for him to be playing in.

 

I know some have stated overpayment for Tavares and his history of injury are a bad combination, but honestly, would ANYONE be surprised if Tavares does get dealt, gets paid a bazillion dollars to play for legit, top notch, contending organization...and all of a sudden those first half woes, injury woes, and inconsistent performances suddenly are a thing of the past?

 

I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

 

Some teams have blood rivals and a hated nemesis or two.

Flyers have their Penguins and Rangers

Oilers have their Flames and Canucks.

Habs have their Bruins and Leafs.

 

The Islanders have....the NY Islanders.

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 6/16/2017 at 2:01 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

All teams who end up with really good players, yet fail to maximize those players with proper filling out of the supporting cast or have the team succumb to massive injuries (on a regular annual basis).

These teams tease fans by looking like they've turned corners, and may have even had some pretty good seasons....only to revert back to their losing and/or mediocre injury plagues, sub par performing ways.

 

That's the Jays in a nutshell. We'll re-sign Bautista but let Encarnacion slip away. We'll acquire David Price for a playoff run and then lose him to our division rival the next season. 

 

I'm of the opinion that it's intentional at this point. The Jays are playing baseball like it's a game of horse shoes: trying to get as close as possible to fielding a winning team without winning anything.

 

On 6/16/2017 at 2:01 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

John Tavares has expressed NO SUCH endorsement for the NY Islanders.

 

Trade him to the Rangers for draft picks.

 

On 6/16/2017 at 2:01 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Some teams have blood rivals and a hated nemesis or two.

Flyers have their Penguins and Rangers

Oilers have their Flames and Canucks.

Habs have their Bruins and Leafs.

 

The Islanders have....the NY Islanders.

 

The Islanders nemesis is red ink lol.

 

 

[J0e Th0rnton]

On 6/13/2017 at 9:39 PM, ruxpin said:

Tavares blamed the Brooklyn ice for his injury, didn't he?  Between that, a crap team around him and a Mickey Mouse front office (among other things), I don't see him resigning with the Isles. 

 

I agree with Rad:  anyone giving Tavares $10M/8 yrs. will regret it early in the contract. 

I am willing to regret it for the Sharks.

 

So are most Shark fans.

 

Doug Wilson rarely goes after UFA's, but he does on occasion.  Sharks were a finalist for Scott Niedermeyer, but he wanted to play with his brother instead; they also were a finalist for Zdeno Chara who chose Boston so he could have a "C" on his sweater; they also apparently made a fairly aggressive pitch to Steven Stamkos before he ultimately chose to stay in Tampa.
 

Sharks fans are lucky that DW doesn't go after big UFAs for the sake of signing a marquee UFA - the Scott Gomezs, Brad Richards, etc. When he does chase the big ones, he goes after true quality and typically has come pretty close. Tavares fits that bill of quality, and I think he'd be able to put up a decent fight for him.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

I am willing to regret it for the Sharks.

 

So are most Shark fans.

 

Doug Wilson rarely goes after UFA's, but he does on occasion.  Sharks were a finalist for Scott Niedermeyer, but he wanted to play with his brother instead; they also were a finalist for Zdeno Chara who chose Boston so he could have a "C" on his sweater; they also apparently made a fairly aggressive pitch to Steven Stamkos before he ultimately chose to stay in Tampa.
 

Sharks fans are lucky that DW doesn't go after big UFAs for the sake of signing a marquee UFA - the Scott Gomezs, Brad Richards, etc. When he does chase the big ones, he goes after true quality and typically has come pretty close. Tavares fits that bill of quality, and I think he'd be able to put up a decent fight for him.

Now is the time. Win one and then a get out of jail free card with the next lockout. 

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

1 hour ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

I am willing to regret it for the Sharks.

 

So are most Shark fans.

 

Doug Wilson rarely goes after UFA's, but he does on occasion.  Sharks were a finalist for Scott Niedermeyer, but he wanted to play with his brother instead; they also were a finalist for Zdeno Chara who chose Boston so he could have a "C" on his sweater; they also apparently made a fairly aggressive pitch to Steven Stamkos before he ultimately chose to stay in Tampa.
 

Sharks fans are lucky that DW doesn't go after big UFAs for the sake of signing a marquee UFA - the Scott Gomezs, Brad Richards, etc. When he does chase the big ones, he goes after true quality and typically has come pretty close. Tavares fits that bill of quality, and I think he'd be able to put up a decent fight for him.

 

Not sure how much legs the rumor really had (I suspected it was clickbait), but there was something posted on a website (could have been NHL Rumors, but can't remember), that had the Isles trading Tavares to the Lightning for both Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat.

 

Let's say Tavares gets extended by the Bolts and gets his 10-10.5M....well, Palat and Johnson, combined, make about that (10.3M to be exact on the cap hit), so the money would be a wash.

Main problem I could see with that is, the Lightning would be trading top line depth (two players at two top six positions) for a single one at C.

 

Of course, individually, Tavares > either Palat or Johnson....but is he greater than both together? Hmmm..

The thought of a 1-2 punch down the middle of Stamkos and Tavares IS appealing, but those guys are going to need skilled players around them and I would have to wonder...Tampa Bay without both Palat and Johnson? Do they have enough top six depth to cover for them without making the bottom six barren? 

It's something that made me wonder about the possibilities at least.

 

As for the Isles, if Tavares was a 'goner' anyways, and Garth Snow were to trade with Yzerman, Palat and Johnson give NY two immediately good players to add while addressing both a 1C or 2C need AND a 1LW or 2LW need.

 

But like I said, the rumor could have been entirely fabricated as I have heard nothing of it for quite some time now this off season.

Besides all that, Steve Yzerman understands the need for top flight players like Tavares, but also understand that long term success (like he has been building) comes from having SEVERAL top flight players rather than just one or two.

 

I will admit to being fascinated by the thought of Tavares as a Lightning player though... 

[J0e Th0rnton]

10 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

Not sure how much legs the rumor really had (I suspected it was clickbait), but there was something posted on a website (could have been NHL Rumors, but can't remember), that had the Isles trading Tavares to the Lightning for both Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat.

 

Let's say Tavares gets extended by the Bolts and gets his 10-10.5M....well, Palat and Johnson, combined, make about that (10.3M to be exact on the cap hit), so the money would be a wash.

Main problem I could see with that is, the Lightning would be trading top line depth (two players at two top six positions) for a single one at C.

 

Of course, individually, Tavares > either Palat or Johnson....but is he greater than both together? Hmmm..

The thought of a 1-2 punch down the middle of Stamkos and Tavares IS appealing, but those guys are going to need skilled players around them and I would have to wonder...Tampa Bay without both Palat and Johnson? Do they have enough top six depth to cover for them without making the bottom six barren? 

It's something that made me wonder about the possibilities at least.

 

As for the Isles, if Tavares was a 'goner' anyways, and Garth Snow were to trade with Yzerman, Palat and Johnson give NY two immediately good players to add while addressing both a 1C or 2C need AND a 1LW or 2LW need.

 

But like I said, the rumor could have been entirely fabricated as I have heard nothing of it for quite some time now this off season.

Besides all that, Steve Yzerman understands the need for top flight players like Tavares, but also understand that long term success (like he has been building) comes from having SEVERAL top flight players rather than just one or two.

 

I will admit to being fascinated by the thought of Tavares as a Lightning player though... 

The sharks are in reasonable cap room to make such a move because we need a #1 c to replace my aging 38 year old namesake without going the rebuild  route. To the bolts it's a bit weird  an idea since they have Stamkos. 

[musky]

i think he will end up in toronto.

[radoran]

On 8/10/2017 at 7:36 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

I am willing to regret it for the Sharks.

 

So are most Shark fans.

 

Doug Wilson rarely goes after UFA's, but he does on occasion.  Sharks were a finalist for Scott Niedermeyer, but he wanted to play with his brother instead; they also were a finalist for Zdeno Chara who chose Boston so he could have a "C" on his sweater; they also apparently made a fairly aggressive pitch to Steven Stamkos before he ultimately chose to stay in Tampa.
 

Sharks fans are lucky that DW doesn't go after big UFAs for the sake of signing a marquee UFA - the Scott Gomezs, Brad Richards, etc. When he does chase the big ones, he goes after true quality and typically has come pretty close. Tavares fits that bill of quality, and I think he'd be able to put up a decent fight for him.

 

I think it's a fair question as to whether the Sharks will have an opportunity in free agency without trading for the player beforehand.

 

I have to imagine if he's not going to sign with NYI that Snow will trade him to someone for something and that someone will be willing to sign him for what he's looking for. And that "something" isn't going to be a skate sharpener.

 

I do see your point as to the Sharks' M.O. in this situation - and it's a good and valid one. But IMO they're not going to get Tavares free and clear without losing anything.

 

And, as always, I'm happy to let other GMs make mistakes.

[J0e Th0rnton]

[MEDIA=nhl]c=55001203;t=290987738[/MEDIA]

https://twitter.com/SJSharksBlogger/status/ https://twitter.com/SJSharksBlogger/status/934863256489021440 934863256489021440

[ruxpin]

@J0e Th0rnton

Way too wordy, J0e. Your post was exhausting. 

[J0e Th0rnton]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

@J0e Th0rnton

Way too wordy, J0e. Your post was exhausting. 

I was trying to post a video of Barzal skating circles around the other team, but it did not take for whatever reason

[pilldoc]

@J0e Th0rnton

 

https://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/highlight-barzal-leddy-sets-up-eberles-game-winner/embed/

 

this is it??

 

[musky]

barzel and ho sang may be enough to keep jt in new york.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

8 minutes ago, musky said:

barzel and ho sang may be enough to keep jt in new york.

 

I just have to wonder whether Tavares thinks Garth Snow can be counted on to keep the franchise competitive.

 

If Tavares is gonna stay, I doubt he gives the Islanders a hometown discount like Stamkos did for the Lightning. I think we are talking max contract here.

 

That means Snow is gonna have to walk a tightrope and be absolutely spot on with the players he keeps, players he lets go, and how players are developed (such as the guys you mentioned, Barzal and Ho Sang) that will keep the Isles relevant for years to come.

And Snow HAS been known to umm.....drop the ball, shall we say in that area.

 

Yzerman has put in place a long term sustainable pipeline in Tampa Bay and it's one of the reasons Stamkos took less money to stay on with the Bolts when he could have probably made a good 3 or 4 million more AAV elsewhere.

 

Oh yea, and for Snow, another issue is goaltending.

Isles are gonna need better than Griese and/or Halak to win a title.

 

Do they have any goalies in the pipeline that can help the Isles within the next 2 years or so?

 

I think Tavares takes all those things into consideration, along with salary and term, before deciding whether he wants to go all in with the Isles.

Just too many times NY seems to have had things going right, only for Tavares, sooner or later, finding himself 'carrying the mail' on his own.

[musky]

for goaltending they have sorkin comming up the pipe hopfully soon.

 

https://www.lighthousehockey.com/2017/7/3/15915146/ilya-sorokin-islanders-khl-contract-extension

 

might be awhile.

 

also 

 

https://www.lighthousehockey.com/2017/5/12/15630408/islanders-linus-soderstrom-what-a-difference-a-year-makes-scouting-report

[J0e Th0rnton]

56 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

@J0e Th0rnton

 

https://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/highlight-barzal-leddy-sets-up-eberles-game-winner/embed/

 

this is it??

 

Yes thanks lol

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Signing Tavares shouldn't be a problem now. As per The Score in Canada, the Islanders Belmont Park arena is a go. Congrats to Islanders fans add they'll be able to retain stars going forward and get a much needed new arena.