Brian Elliott Signs with the Flyers

[J0e Th0rnton]

You guys are tanking?

 

Elliott? He isn't exactly an upgrade on Mason.

[pilldoc]

3 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

You guys are tanking?

 

Elliott? He isn't exactly an upgrade on Mason.

 

"soft" tank

 

and no he is not an upgrade ...only a 2 yr deal ......

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

You guys are tanking?

 

Elliott? He isn't exactly an upgrade on Mason.

No, he isn't. You're right. But he's not really a downgrade either. So, we went from meh to meh and saved about 500k.  Woohoo! Party in Philly tonight! 

[pilldoc]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

No, he isn't. You're right. But he's not really a downgrade either. So, we went from meh to meh and saved about 500k.  Woohoo! Party in Philly tonight! 

 

as lateral of a lateral move you can get ......

[Howie58]

Elliot

4 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

You guys are tanking?

 

Elliott? He isn't exactly an upgrade on Mason.

I think we're seeing few things.  First--we are at the tag end (hopefully) of an era in which we can't develop our own for this position. So we aim for outsiders who fit certain budget constraints or just available.  Second--my gut says they really did not see Neuvirth in the picture and figured someone would want him.  And last--most I've read about the guy is favorable, other than his PO series last season.  

 

I think the "real" question is how long this apparent 1 and 1/A tandem works.  When does Neuvy go down?  is last year's PO series the start of a decline? Did he play well in St. Louis behind a good D and a Hitchcock-coached team, with his earlier career being the "real" Elliott.  Do we turn to someone in the AHL out of necessity?

 

Obviously, it will be awhile before the answers emerge.  Hexy wanted a bridge. And that's what we got.  

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

You guys are tanking?

 

Elliott? He isn't exactly an upgrade on Mason.

 

Yeah more of the same almost at almost half the price.

[Howie58]

My hope is that we don't find out his best years in STL were the result of a good D coached by a defensively-oriented coach...shades of Bryz.  I suspect he is less of a head case than Mason. That will help.  

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

My hope is that we don't find out his best years in STL were the result of a good D coached by a defensively-oriented coach...shades of Bryz.  I suspect he is less of a head case than Mason. That will help.  

 

 

See i think that is part of the problem.

 

I don't think the Blue's defense lived up to their billing.

 

Sure the Flyer's defense isn't all that but then again no one is claiming them to be.

 

J-Bo is old and underwhelming. AP to me has never lived up to his legend.

 

Parakyo is pretty ok and yet like Ghost had a disappointing season.

 

So anyways i guess we'll see if the team is better off or worse...

[jammer2]

12 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

No offence jammer, but would you seriously trade Provorov or Nolan for the fond memories of a 5 game playoff? Cause I sure as heck wouldn't. And I'd take one more piece like that over a handful of playoff games.

 

 No doubt, Provs and Nolan will be cornerstone pieces.....it would probably take a real young defense at least a few decent runs to get used to playoff hockey, so getting one of those "learning" years out of the way with at least 3 youngsters would be an invaluable experience. 2 rounds would be awesome. Tired of losing, Sucking is tough. . We can be contenders pretty quick, depending on a few variables.  My gut says the East will be wide open next season, Flyers might be a top team if a LOT of things go right.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

See i think that is part of the problem.

 

I don't think the Blue's defense lived up to their billing.

 

Sure the Flyer's defense isn't all that but then again no one is claiming them to be.

 

J-Bo is old and underwhelming. AP to me has never lived up to his legend.

 

Parakyo is pretty ok and yet like Ghost had a disappointing season.

 

So anyways i guess we'll see if the team is better off or worse...

Overall I agree. I think AP is pretty good, but down roster isn't all that great. 

 

I think overall it would be enough but they're still thin on offense. 

 

My problem with Elliott is he, too, seems to be mentally fragile. He just has a history of shrinking the moment he's given the reigns and increasingly as the stakes go up.  It's why the Blues kept trying other options the entire time he was there (including the disaster of trading for His Omnipotence). 

 

He's sufficient for the Flyers for now. But he really is right there with Steve Mason in terms of head case. Maybe not as bad as Mason in that regard. 

 

It seems to me (and this is a real thing) that Elliott has a fear of success.  Lucky for him he won't have to worry about that on the Flyers yet. 

[RJ8812]

19 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

You guys are tanking?

 

Elliott? He isn't exactly an upgrade on Mason.

No

 

But we are in the middle of a rebuild where our GM is giving our kids every chance they can to make the roster 

[RJ8812]

13 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Overall I agree. I think AP is pretty good, but down roster isn't all that great. 

 

I think overall it would be enough but they're still thin on offense. 

 

My problem with Elliott is he, too, seems to be mentally fragile. He just has a history of shrinking the moment he's given the reigns and increasingly as the stakes go up.  It's why the Blues kept trying other options the entire time he was there (including the disaster of trading for His Omnipotence). 

 

He's sufficient for the Flyers for now. But he really is right there with Steve Mason in terms of head case. Maybe not as bad as Mason in that regard. 

 

It seems to me (and this is a real thing) that Elliott has a fear of success.  Lucky for him he won't have to worry about that on the Flyers yet. 

Elliot doesn't have to worry about that here though. He isn't going to be relied upon to bring this team deep into the playoffs over the next 2 years 

[ruxpin]

4 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Elliot doesn't have to worry about that here though. He isn't going to be relied upon to bring this team deep into the playoffs over the next 2 years 

 

I agree, but I'm not even talking about the playoffs.  I was talking entirely regular season.   We really have 2 Neuvirths on the team that both will shrink away when opportunity is handed them.

[AJgoal]

Getting league average goaltending (0.911) vs. 0.905 alone would have pushed the Flyers into the top half of the league in goals against. In fact, getting Mason's season average of .908 for the team as a whole would have pushed them up to 16th. It's only part of the issue though. because neither would have put them in the plus column with regards to GF/GA.

[pilldoc]

50 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I agree, but I'm not even talking about the playoffs.  I was talking entirely regular season.   We really have 2 Neuvirths on the team that both will shrink away when opportunity is handed them.

 

yup..and as  I mentioned before, I believe Hexy will have some of the young kids on the team this year to get experience.  IMO,  He was not going to throw money away bringing a top tier goalie (of course there really was not a lot to choose from).  Why this team learns to play with the younger players, there will be many ups and downs, especially in goal.  Elliot will win some and lose some.  This is a borderline bubble team and probably in the mind of Hexy a so called "soft" tank season. 

 

Looking at the list of potential prospects for the NHL 2018 draft, the prize for forwards seems to be one Andrei Svechnikov (RW),  (some say in the mode of  Tavres / Stamkos type caliber player) and one Joe Veleno. The Quebec forward Joseph Veleno, who is the fifth player to be granted “exceptional player” status by Hockey Canada to play in the CHL a year early, joining John Tavares, Aaron Ekblad, and Connor McDavid, all number one overall NHL picks, and Sean Day, who was selected in the third round of the 2016 Draft. Veleno isn’t likely to be the top overall pick, but has played well enough that he’ll likely be in the conversation for the top ten.  Other names I have seen: Joel Farabee-F-NTDP U17, Milos Roman-F-Ocelari Trinec(SVK), Brady Tkachuk-F-NTDP U18, Oliver Wahlstrom-F-NTDP U17, and Filip Zadina-F-Dynamo Pardubice(CZE).  Of course were these players end up before next June is anyone's guess, but it is at least a starting point.

 

Please let me be clear ...again I am NOT advocating this team is going to sink to such degrees nor am I advocating that this is a playoff team and Elliot is a savior. All I'm saying, is based on the way this team has now been constructed (I am assuming there will be no less than 4 or 5 rookies on the team) that there should be no illusions of grandeur.  This team could very well struggle EVEN THOUGH they are playing better.  Hexy very well could see the same thing and knowing that next year's draft has said to be a bit stronger, looked at the roster and decided that it finally is not worth bringing in aging vets past their prime.   Again this all my opinion ......

 

[OccamsRazor]

26 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

We really have 2 Neuvirths on the team that both will shrink away when opportunity is handed them

 

 

Well the good thing at least at first is Elliot won't have to carry the team.

 

Neuvy may get the start first and last time Elliot didn't play the most games on the team (he and Halak) he went 18-6-0-2 1.96 gaa 922% so there is hope he can play well when needed (at least i think he may).

 

The following year (Allen and Brodeur too) he went 26-14-0-3 2.26 gaa 917%.

 

Then the following year when they were trying to hand Allen (played ore games) the reins he went 23-8-0-6 2.07 gaa 930%.

 

So in a backup role if just to start i think he can be successful. But who knows he could win the net outright.

 

Color me cautiously optimistic...i will watch if for no other reason to see the kids play...

[AJgoal]

Just now, pilldoc said:

 

yup..and as  I mentioned before, I believe Hexy will have some of the young kids on the team this year to get experience.  IMO,  He was not going to throw money away bringing a top tier goalie (of course there really was not a lot to choose from).  Why this team learns to play with the younger players, there will be many ups and downs, especially in goal.  Elliot will win some and lose some.  This is a borderline bubble team and probably in the mind of Hexy a so called "soft" tank season. 

 

Looking at the list of potential prospects for the NHL 2018 draft, the prize for forwards seems to be one Andrei Svechnikov (RW),  (some say in the mode of  Tavres / Stamkos type caliber player) and one Joe Veleno. The Quebec forward Joseph Veleno, who is the fifth player to be granted “exceptional player” status by Hockey Canada to play in the CHL a year early, joining John Tavares, Aaron Ekblad, and Connor McDavid, all number one overall NHL picks, and Sean Day, who was selected in the third round of the 2016 Draft. Veleno isn’t likely to be the top overall pick, but has played well enough that he’ll likely be in the conversation for the top ten.  Other names I have seen: Joel Farabee-F-NTDP U17, Milos Roman-F-Ocelari Trinec(SVK), Brady Tkachuk-F-NTDP U18, Oliver Wahlstrom-F-NTDP U17, and Filip Zadina-F-Dynamo Pardubice(CZE).  Of course were these players end up before next June is anyone's guess, but it is at least a starting point.

 

Please let me be clear ...again I am NOT advocating this team is going to sink to suck degrees nor am I advocating that this is a playoff team and Elliot is a savior. All I'm saying, is based on the way this team has now been constructed (I am assuming there will be no less than 4 or 5 rookies on the team) that there should be no illusions of grandeur.  This team could very well struggle EVEN THOUGH they are playing better.  Hexy very well could see the same thing and knowing that next year's draft has said to be a bit stronger, looked at the roster and decided that it finally is not worth bringing in aging vets past their prime.   Again this all my opinion ......

 

 

They're likely a bubble team, but they could certainly surprise depending on the adjustments that the young players make. While you're looking at several rookies, all but Patrick have played in pro leagues. Lindblom dominated the SHL, and has looked good on the small NA ice in limited time in the AHL, as well as at world juniors. Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim have all put time in in the AHL. So none of those guys are coming straight out of juniors to the NHL. Patrick will have the benefit of playing behind two other centers as well, which could give him some favorable matchups. Ghost, Provorov, and Konecny will all have NHL seasons under their belts. The fourth line can't help but be an upgrade over last year's version. 

 

Still, Carolina is an up and coming team. Columbus didn't get worse. Pittsburgh is apparently planning to rely on Niemi for 30-40 starts, but even that won't be enough for them to miss the playoffs. Washington is going to take a step back from a talent standpoint, and I'm not sure about the Rangers, but the Metro is still a tough hill to climb.

 

They'll certainly have a tough time competing with Jersey, Florida, Vegas, and Colorado for worst record in the league.

[Howie58]

To summarize what I read on the thread:

 

1) We aren't angry with Hextall bringing in an older and cheaper version of Mason with some disagreement on their respective "head case" status;

 

2) Consistent with point 1, the next two years are transition and it may not matter who we have between the pipes; and

 

3) Somewhere along the line we will need to test one of the youngins in goal.  My fear is that it will be unplanned due to injury or incompetence on the part of "Ellvirth."  The silver lining is speeding up the transition during a transition period with relatively low expectations.

 

By the way--agreed with AJ that the Metro will be a very tough sled. There are no weaklings.  

 

Howie

[OccamsRazor]

23 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

They're likely a bubble team

 

Yes i agree. If they can improve their 5 on 5 play they have a small chance to squeak into the playoffs. They must get better goaltending to even have a chance at that happening to.

 

One of the biggest key if the season starts out reuniting Giroux and Jake would be getting them a LW who can take advantage of their set up ability since we all know those two love to pass first that line needs a sniper...

 

 

...i am tabbing Oskar to be that guy to begin with.

 

If those two can generate points/goals the win column should go up by 7-10 wins.

 

If not well they continue the downward spiral till some of the young guys step up.

 

**fingers crossed**

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

To me, in order for the Flyers to qualify for the playoffs, they're going to need the young defenders to step up in every way possible. Provorov is going to have to continue his ascension into being a number one, Gostisbehere will need to put everything together, Gudas will need to continue to provide solid defensive play, Morin and Hagg will need to be ready to hit the ground running and just adapt and not look overwhelmed out there. If the young guys can limit their mistakes, this should be a playoff club. Having Elliott in the net actually helps because he's a guy who can direct where the young defenders need to be. Communication is going to be huge with this club. Having Knoblauch on the coaching staff is also going to be a big plus.

 

The big negatives right now are that Gord Murphy and Ian Laperriere still remain employed with the club. When Joe Mullen was let go, those two should have went with him. Instead, we're relying on Murphy to shape these guys and his track record with developing defensemen is putrid. With regards to Laperrriere, he knows nothing of coaching and we've seen it by how piss poor the PK was when he became an assistant coach. The club had a top 10 PK at one point (2013 - 2014) and now it's one of the league's worst  (finishing 10th worst, 9th worst, and 9th worst <- all under Laperriere). 

 

As mentioned in another post though, I'm not concerned if they don't make the playoffs again this year. It's going to be about working younger players into the lineup (I'm convinced that we're looking at the following: Lindblom, Leier, Laughton, Patrick, Morin, Hagg and eventually, Sanheim). That's six potential rookies and a third year player in Laughton, being worked into the lineup. That's a lot of players to work in. They need to be competitive though and that's where a guy like Elliott comes in. His influence should rub off on the younger guys with regards to work ethic and attention detail. 

 

I know I'm probably the minority, but I don't view Elliott as a step back at all. If anything, Elliott is a step in the right direction with what the team is trying to address. It's about team first, working hard, and paying attention to details. As well, Elliott has a career .914 save percentage and a 2.43 GAA. I don't think it's a big step back at all.

[jammer2]

8 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

They're likely a bubble team, but they could certainly surprise depending on the adjustments that the young players make. While you're looking at several rookies, all but Patrick have played in pro leagues. Lindblom dominated the SHL, and has looked good on the small NA ice in limited time in the AHL, as well as at world juniors. Hagg, Morin, and Sanheim have all put time in in the AHL. So none of those guys are coming straight out of juniors to the NHL. Patrick will have the benefit of playing behind two other centers as well, which could give him some favorable matchups. Ghost, Provorov, and Konecny will all have NHL seasons under their belts. The fourth line can't help but be an upgrade over last year's version. 

 

Still, Carolina is an up and coming team. Columbus didn't get worse. Pittsburgh is apparently planning to rely on Niemi for 30-40 starts, but even that won't be enough for them to miss the playoffs. Washington is going to take a step back from a talent standpoint, and I'm not sure about the Rangers, but the Metro is still a tough hill to climb.

 

They'll certainly have a tough time competing with Jersey, Florida, Vegas, and Colorado for worst record in the league.

 

 That is just about how I view things for next year. A LOT of ifs, but if the rookies play well, if we see continued improvement from the sophomores (avoiding the dreaded jinx)....if we get respectable goalie play, this team could very well contend. I try to keep my expectations low so I'm not let down hard, but I am cautiously optimistic for next season. Getting Ghost's confidence back to his rookie season level would go a long way to helping the offense. Konency, Patrick and Lindblom will have some decent quality linemates, so the goals *could* increase. Hey, maybe even Giroux can score pts NOT on the man advantage....pffft....Brian FRIGGIN Gionta has outscored him 5 on 5 for the last 2 years....LMAO!! (per 60 min avg 5 on 5...yep, it's true)

[AJgoal]

Just now, jammer2 said:

Hey, maybe even Giroux can score pts NOT on the man advantage....pffft....Brian FRIGGIN Gionta has outscored him 5 on 5 for the last 2 years....LMAO!! (per 60 min avg 5 on 5...yep, it's true)

 

I've been penciling Lindblom in on the first line, but for for thought:

 

Last year, the team scored at a rate of 1.69 g/60 with Giroux on the ice. Their goals for percentage was 42%.

 

Except when Weal was on the ice with Giroux. Then the G/60 went up to 2.51 and the GF% jumped to 62.5%. 

 

Now, they played just a hair less than 2 full games (119:33) together, but it bears seeing if they can maintain that chemistry.

 

My concern is Jake. He was a production drag last year. And for all of the chemistry he's considered to have with Giroux, the stats show they generally produce better when paired with anyone else.

[jammer2]

4 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

I've been penciling Lindblom in on the first line, but for for thought:

 

Last year, the team scored at a rate of 1.69 g/60 with Giroux on the ice. Their goals for percentage was 42%.

 

Except when Weal was on the ice with Giroux. Then the G/60 went up to 2.51 and the GF% jumped to 62.5%. 

 

Now, they played just a hair less than 2 full games (119:33) together, but it bears seeing if they can maintain that chemistry.

 

My concern is Jake. He was a production drag last year. And for all of the chemistry he's considered to have with Giroux, the stats show they generally produce better when paired with anyone else.

 

 It seems as if the Flyers can never catch a break when it comes to long term deals. It looks like the going rate when signed, then goes downhill...usually quickly. Voracheck's deal looked just a tad pricey when he signed, now it looks like a nightmare if he can't turn it around. WTF!!

[ruxpin]

48 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 It seems as if the Flyers can never catch a break when it comes to long term deals. It looks like the going rate when signed, then goes downhill...usually quickly. Voracheck's deal looked just a tad pricey when he signed, now it looks like a nightmare if he can't turn it around. WTF!!

Montreal still needs scoring. It's likely they haven't noticed Jake sucking. Or maybe the Rags. They seem to like overpaying people for no reason. 

 

Make some calls! 

[ruxpin]

I think Voracek for J. T. Miller is probably doable.