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No interest in Jagr?


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I know he's 45 and his last team is getting back to form in getting cheap and cutting salary, but hes still a useful player, and hes pretty good with younger guys to. And this is coming from a guy who originally opposed his signing, thinking he was just looking for one more check. Hes not gonna score 30 or even 20 anymore, but he still has something left. he gives dmen fits keeping the pucks, and makes his linemates better. Shocked if the claims that hes gotten 0 calls is true. Wonder if hes using this as a ploy of sort to get better contract, but cant see how, it would seem that it would work in opposite

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I said this in the chatbox, but bears repeating: Jaromir Jagr would sure look good wearing a Tampa Bay Lightning sweater, on the 4th line with JT Brown and Cedric Paquette.....maybe even contribute a bit on the 2nd PP unit....on a simple 1 yr, 975K-1M deal.

 

If he REALLY does want to play till he is 50, still has that desire, and can still get it done (heck, for a 4th liner, even if he only comes up with 5 goals, 10 points on the year, a mark Jagr can find even if by accident, it will be good enough), then some GM should give him a job.

 

And the Bolts have plenty of young talent still that he can influence....and maybe even a young vet or two that can maybe learn something from the grizzled Jagr.

 

Now..the BIG question likely is: What is Jagr asking for?

Does he care one way or another whether he plays next season? In this case, then that desire or fire, is gone and he probably shouldn't be playing in the NHL.

Is his spirit willing, but his body is betraying him in some way where he simply cannot the way his mind and heart want to?

 

Only Jagr knows for sure.

 

But if the man wants to keep playing, isn't asking for a bunch in salary, and just wants to keep playing and compiling numbers, all the while trying to grab one more Cup, then the Lightning could be the place for him.

Wonder if Yzerman would even consider it.........

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I think the Golden Knights should offer Jagr a contract.  He's great for locker room w/r "team-building / work effort"  and with a brand new team coming together I'd think his presence would be invaluable.

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Jagr, like Doan and some others, has to decide whether he's willing to continue to play for less than $1M to be a 4th line player, maybe PP specialist, and "team leader."

 

Because, quite frankly, neither are fast enough to be effective in today's game.  If either gets caught out there against a top line, it will be problems.  

 

You don't want either of them on a contender.   The 4th line, etc. is a place to try out some kids.  Or even further up roster for injury fill-ins.

 

And on developing teams like Buffalo or Philly or some others, both are well out of place.  NHL teams want to ice fast skaters.  The Jagrs and Doans on the market simply clog that up and block some kid from taking a shot at it. 

 

Vegas makes some sense.   Maybe even Vancouver so they can join the other geriatrics (I'm not seriously suggesting this), but very little else makes sense.

 

I wouldn't expect Jagr to be signed--if at all--until late September and at the very very cheap if that.  He'll need to decide if he's willing to play under those conditions.

 

I'll be stunned if Doan isn't done.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It was rumored that Calgary was interested in Jagr. No matter how old he is I would love watching him as a Flame. I'm kind of surprised but not surprised that Jagr isn't signed yet. Most teams would be hesitant even though he put up decent numbers last season. If anything he'll be signed late.

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On 7/1/2017 at 11:42 AM, ruxpin said:

Jagr, like Doan and some others, has to decide whether he's willing to continue to play for less than $1M to be a 4th line player, maybe PP specialist, and "team leader."

 

Because, quite frankly, neither are fast enough to be effective in today's game.  If either gets caught out there against a top line, it will be problems.  

 

You don't want either of them on a contender.   The 4th line, etc. is a place to try out some kids.  Or even further up roster for injury fill-ins.

 

And on developing teams like Buffalo or Philly or some others, both are well out of place.  NHL teams want to ice fast skaters.  The Jagrs and Doans on the market simply clog that up and block some kid from taking a shot at it. 

 

Vegas makes some sense.   Maybe even Vancouver so they can join the other geriatrics (I'm not seriously suggesting this), but very little else makes sense.

 

I wouldn't expect Jagr to be signed--if at all--until late September and at the very very cheap if that.  He'll need to decide if he's willing to play under those conditions.

 

I'll be stunned if Doan isn't done.

 

If I have to read this "This guy is too big, that guy is too slow" sh-t like this one more time, I am going to throw something.

Brayden Schenn can’t skate to save his life and has somehow managed to score 20 goals three of the last four years and finish with 41, 46, 59, and 55 points in the same time span. Jagr and Thornton aren’t exactly young (or speedsters) and still managed to score roughly 50 points last year. Dustin Byfuglien is a fat b-stard and isn’t exactly a kid anymore, yet still manages to somehow survive in the league. The same could be said for Chara. For f-ck’s sake, it’s bad enough I have to put up with the league trying to make it illegal to throw a bodycheck and turn it into a figure skating competition, logging on to this site and seeing people say “big/little guys can play in today’s game” makes me want to get violent. Please stop saying this before you give me an aneurysm!

 

Disclaimer: This post may not necessarily be directed solely at ruxpin, he just so happens to be the latest person to express these sentiments.

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2 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

If I have to read this "This guy is too big, that guy is too slow" sh-t like this one more time, I am going to throw something.

Brayden Schenn can’t skate to save his life and has somehow managed to score 20 goals three of the last four years and finish with 41, 46, 59, and 55 points in the same time span. Jagr and Thornton aren’t exactly young (or speedsters) and still managed to score roughly 50 points last year. Dustin Byfuglien is a fat b-stard and isn’t exactly a kid anymore, yet still manages to somehow survive in the league. The same could be said for Chara. For f-ck’s sake, it’s bad enough I have to put up with the league trying to make it illegal to throw a bodycheck and turn it into a figure skating competition, logging on to this site and seeing people say “big/little guys can play in today’s game” makes me want to get violent. Please stop saying this before you give me an aneurysm!

 

Disclaimer: This post may not necessarily be directed solely at ruxpin, he just so happens to be the latest person to express these sentiments.

 

Thinking.. should I say that saying one more time so you could throw something? I would pay to see that! lol!

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9 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

If I have to read this "This guy is too big, that guy is too slow" sh-t like this one more time, I am going to throw something.

Brayden Schenn can’t skate to save his life and has somehow managed to score 20 goals three of the last four years and finish with 41, 46, 59, and 55 points in the same time span. Jagr and Thornton aren’t exactly young (or speedsters) and still managed to score roughly 50 points last year. Dustin Byfuglien is a fat b-stard and isn’t exactly a kid anymore, yet still manages to somehow survive in the league. The same could be said for Chara. For f-ck’s sake, it’s bad enough I have to put up with the league trying to make it illegal to throw a bodycheck and turn it into a figure skating competition, logging on to this site and seeing people say “big/little guys can play in today’s game” makes me want to get violent. Please stop saying this before you give me an aneurysm!

 

Disclaimer: This post may not necessarily be directed solely at ruxpin, he just so happens to be the latest person to express these sentiments.

 

Thank you for the disclaimer.  I knew it wasn't directed specifically at me.

 

The bolded.  You may want to warm up in the bullpen or do some stretches.  Simply throwing things can sometimes cause muscle soreness.

 

Tired of it or not -- and your accurate examples aside -- it's just the way the league is going.  Teams are moving toward up-tempo forwards and defensemen who can skate and drive the play forward.

 

Doan, in particular is just old. I mean, in 2015-16 he had a bit of a bounce back, but he was not good in 2014-15 and was a shadow of himself last year.  Granted, he didn't have a lot with him, but here's a guy who's done.  I don't sign him for "veteran leadership" and to play 4-5 minutes/game on the fourth line when I can get someone younger and faster for similar or less money.   And who will be at least as effective.

 

Jagr looked perceptibly slower this year.  He didn't look good.  I think he's actually signed by someone on a one-year deal come camp time, but I personally would not.   There's slow but effective physically, etc., like Byfuglien.  There's old but still effective in an appropriate role like Chara.  But when you're slow and ..well, slow...   Again, same rationale as above with Doan.

 

But here's the thing.   The average age in the NHL has steadily gone down over the last 10 years.

 

Forwards

2007 average age= 27.596

2012 -- 27.027

2017 -- 26.494

 

Defensemen

2007 --  27.564

2012 -- 27.324

2017 -- 26.909

 

Goalies

2007 -- 28.819

2012 -- 28.736

2017 -- 28.144

 

I know only a year younger in average age doesn't seem like a lot, but when you have roughly 400 forwards on roster, a full year difference in forwards is significant.     There are roughly 200 defensemen on roster so the 8 months difference there is still telling.  The goalie drop off was roughly the same as the defensemen with only maybe 60-65 goalies.   I'm not sure what to do with that, but it's not all that relevant to my argument one way or the other except to point out the obvious that younger tends to be cheaper.

 

I don't think, at this point, that there is a place for Doan on an NHL roster.  Jagr may be a different story, but I don't think until mid- to late September.  

 

Ask yourself this, and maybe you'd be okay with it, I don't know.

What would your reaction be if the Flyers signed either one of them?

Me?  I'd probably have an aneurysm.

 

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10 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

Brayden Schenn can’t skate to save his life and is dumb as **** and has somehow managed to score 20 goals three of the last four years and finish with 41, 46, 59, and 55 points in the same time span.

 

Fixed it for you.   Just because I knew you'd love it.

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I would say a team like LA, that plays a slower game might be a good fit for him, but I don't know if they want to go with more aging players given how many they already have. It's also a question of whether or not Jagr is going to be okay being a 3rd/4th line player. He's been a 17 minute a night player the last 3 years. Is he going to be happy playing less than that? I know he wasn't happy a couple years ago when the Devils dropped his ice time after DeBoer got fired.

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31 minutes ago, MadDevil said:

I would say a team like LA, that plays a slower game might be a good fit for him, but I don't know if they want to go with more aging players given how many they already have. It's also a question of whether or not Jagr is going to be okay being a 3rd/4th line player. He's been a 17 minute a night player the last 3 years. Is he going to be happy playing less than that? I know he wasn't happy a couple years ago when the Devils dropped his ice time after DeBoer got fired.

 

On the bolded...bingo!

 

In his mind, he is still a star player and therefore may feel he SHOULD be in someone's top six.

I had suggested earlier in this thread that Jagr would look real nice on TB'b bottom six, but at the time I posted that, it hadn't occurred to me that even though the league might view him as a bottom six guy, as I do, HE may not view himself as a bottom six guy.

 

And the thing with the Lightning is, they DON'T like having plodding guys in their lineup.

Sure, not everyone they have is going to be Tyler Johnson, Steve Stamkos, or Nikita Kucherov fast, but they gotta be able to move and score.

 

Jagr is certainly slowed down, but has shown an ability to still score. And TB LIKES guys in their bottom six that could probably be in many other teams' TOP six.

Bottom line here though is, I think Jagr would fit in well with guys like JT Brown or Cedric Paquette...both those guys aren't lights out scorers, but they chip in...and that's what I would expect out of Jagr.

 

But does Jaromir think he fits in better with a Kucherov as opposed to a JT Brown?

That is very possible.

 

And if so, then yea, he will have trouble finding employment in the league.

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38 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

But does Jaromir think he fits in better with a Kucherov as opposed to a JT Brown?

That is very possible.

 

This.   And I highly doubt he wants to play 3rd or 4th line minutes.  Your post summed up perfectly what the problem is.   

 

He --and Doan to an extent -- can help on a 4th line role.   On a 3rd line on a team not playing the defensive/checking third line.   But I don't think Jagr is going to swallow the pride until September where it's settle for 4th or quit.  And it will be about that time where some clubs decide they need or want to sign such a player.

 

There are a limited number of teams where this works at all.   Does he come back on a team that has no chance or is he looking to win?  He really doesn't seem to care whether he wins, so maybe that's not an issue.  If he's willing to go to a young up and coming team and provide some veteran experience, etc., terrific.   I just don't see him on a team that's actually going for it and I really wonder even about middling teams such as Tampa (sorry, I think they've fallen back, but we can use "above average but not elite" if you're more comfortable with it).  

 

I swear I have nothing against Jagr.  I was one of the few not jumping off a bridge when he came back and signed with Philly.  And he's done a nice job since he's back.  To your point, I think there's a specific role for him at this point and I don't know that ego will allow him to settle for it until it's do it or go home.

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@ruxpin

 

Hah! I have no issue with the Bolts being called "middling" at this stage.

Heck, even I don't put them in 'elite company' because many of the players that drove the team to the SC Finals and Eastern Finals the two seasons prior to last are either gone or just not the same players.

 

For TB, it's the proverbial "take one step back to be able to take two steps forward" type thing.

You simply don't shed key players like Ben Bishop, Jason Garrison, Jonathan Drouin, Steve Stamkos (hey, his injuries the last two seasons FELT like he was traded away or something such!) and call yourself the same championship type team.

 

Guys have to get replaced, and even though those players mentioned didn't all have stellar years last season, when the Bolts made their runs, they WERE cogs that helped drive the machine.

 

Now it's time for younger players to step in (Namestnikov, Vasilevskiy, Gourde, Point, Dotchin), in-their-prime guys on the team to step their games up (Palat, Johnson, Killorn) vets that are still here to show they aren't done (Budaj, Stralman, Kunitz, Girardi...yikes by the way!), stars to remain that way (Kucherov, Hedman), and yet others to stay healthy (Johnson again, Paquette, and of course, Stamkos).

 

Until any of the above happens, yea, the Bolts are sorta a middling team.

 

And not to derail this thread with all that, but a guy like Jagr, once again, if he embraced the role, IMO, would help accelerate the process of maturity and competitiveness across the board on this team.

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I actually wouldn't hate the Devils signing him again, although I don't see it happening. They definitely need help on RW, and if they're going to have kids like Hischier, Zacha, Wood, McLeod, Blandisi, etc. with the team, he could be that "good with the kids" presence for them. Heck, maybe his fellow Czech Zacha could get some pointers (I still wish Elias had been able to play with him).

 

Although the thought of Jagr trying to keep up with Hall or Wood is both kind of sad and comical.

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11 hours ago, MadDevil said:

I would say a team like LA, that plays a slower game might be a good fit for him, but I don't know if they want to go with more aging players given how many they already have. It's also a question of whether or not Jagr is going to be okay being a 3rd/4th line player. He's been a 17 minute a night player the last 3 years. Is he going to be happy playing less than that? I know he wasn't happy a couple years ago when the Devils dropped his ice time after DeBoer got fired.

Yeah, MD hit a chord with me here.  For the past two years, Jags has still been playing a bit of minutes, probably at 2nd line matches.  Will he accept 3rd/4th line responsibilities?  Will he be effective at that level?  How much does that affect his point totals

 

 That's the question.  But also, will he actually help an organization at that level, while taking away time from a younger player that may have a future but is not getting the time.

 

 

One other thing,  people keep mentioning Vegas.  PLEASE NO, FOR JAGR'S SAKE!!!!!   During his younger days in the 'burgh, Jagr had a bit of a gambling problem, and lost a LOT of money at the tables.  Vegas would not be a place for him to reside.

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14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Thank you for the disclaimer.  I knew it wasn't directed specifically at me.

 

The bolded.  You may want to warm up in the bullpen or do some stretches.  Simply throwing things can sometimes cause muscle soreness.

 

Tired of it or not -- and your accurate examples aside -- it's just the way the league is going.  Teams are moving toward up-tempo forwards and defensemen who can skate and drive the play forward.

 

Doan, in particular is just old. I mean, in 2015-16 he had a bit of a bounce back, but he was not good in 2014-15 and was a shadow of himself last year.  Granted, he didn't have a lot with him, but here's a guy who's done.  I don't sign him for "veteran leadership" and to play 4-5 minutes/game on the fourth line when I can get someone younger and faster for similar or less money.   And who will be at least as effective.

 

Jagr looked perceptibly slower this year.  He didn't look good.  I think he's actually signed by someone on a one-year deal come camp time, but I personally would not.   There's slow but effective physically, etc., like Byfuglien.  There's old but still effective in an appropriate role like Chara.  But when you're slow and ..well, slow...   Again, same rationale as above with Doan.

 

But here's the thing.   The average age in the NHL has steadily gone down over the last 10 years.

 

Forwards

2007 average age= 27.596

2012 -- 27.027

2017 -- 26.494

 

Defensemen

2007 --  27.564

2012 -- 27.324

2017 -- 26.909

 

Goalies

2007 -- 28.819

2012 -- 28.736

2017 -- 28.144

 

I know only a year younger in average age doesn't seem like a lot, but when you have roughly 400 forwards on roster, a full year difference in forwards is significant.     There are roughly 200 defensemen on roster so the 8 months difference there is still telling.  The goalie drop off was roughly the same as the defensemen with only maybe 60-65 goalies.   I'm not sure what to do with that, but it's not all that relevant to my argument one way or the other except to point out the obvious that younger tends to be cheaper.

 

I don't think, at this point, that there is a place for Doan on an NHL roster.  Jagr may be a different story, but I don't think until mid- to late September.  

 

Ask yourself this, and maybe you'd be okay with it, I don't know.

What would your reaction be if the Flyers signed either one of them?

Me?  I'd probably have an aneurysm.

 

 

I knew you would, but that was mostly for the benefit of others myself (I didn't feel like listening to a lecture about how I mean).

 

There's a reason I didn't include Doan in my examples – he didn't produce last year. As you said, he is simply old. I wouldn't sign him if he agreed to play for free.

 

Jagr, well that depends on how much money he wants. I'm not paying him much, but this team isn't exactly overflowing with forwards and I also happen to believe they are in desperate need of some good veteran leadership.

 

I know what the league is doing, but there's a difference between preference and in fact. Guys who can play aren't going to be forced into retirement (or not drafted at all) simply because they don't fit the preferred mold or skill set. If they can play, they can play.

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Jagr scored 66 points two years ago and a crappy Florida team.  Put him on a team that has some decent talent, but maybe not quite ready for the playoffs, and I think he could score 20 goals.  His big contribution is going to be his leadership.  Heck he may as well even be a player/coach at this point.  

I agree that the Golden Knights would be a good fit for him.  

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3 minutes ago, Trefilov22 said:

Jagr scored 66 points two years ago and a crappy Florida team.  Put him on a team that has some decent talent, but maybe not quite ready for the playoffs, and I think he could score 20 goals.  His big contribution is going to be his leadership.  Heck he may as well even be a player/coach at this point.  

I agree that the Golden Knights would be a good fit for him.  

 

Ok, now THIS post I simply cannot get behind.

 

The year Jagr scored 66 points, Florida won the division and were scoring at a pretty good clip overall.

According to the stat sheet, 239 GF, 203 GA... +36, which puts them about middle of the pack offensively and closer to the top defensively...hardly "crappy".

 

No talent in Florida?

Jonathan Huberdea, Aleksander Barkov, Aaron Ekblad, Vincent Trocheck, Nick Bjugstad, Erik Gudbranson (he was on Florida that year), Reilly Smith, Jussi Jokinen, and Roberto Luongo.

Looks like decent talent to me.

 

Honestly, I still think Jagr can play, even today, but even he would NOT have been able to garner those 66 points that year if it weren't for the 'crappy team' he had around him.

 

And I also disagree Jagr would be much of a help to the Knights right now. If you thought Florida had "crappy talent" when Jagr scored his 66 points, go have a look at what the Knights are gonna ice come October....not crappy either, but definitely LOADS of question marks there...the team will likely struggle to score.

At this stage of his career, you simply cannot ask a guy like Jagr to carry an expansion team like Vegas.

 

IMO, Jagr fits best with an established core of talent where he can supplement from a bottom six role and some PP time.

Problem is, as many have discussed already, "Is Jagr ready to admit he is no longer a top six player and fully embrace a supporting bottom six role?"

 

If he is, he can still help a team...if not, he will be another veteran still hanging on with no calls coming his way, save for someone who is looking to desperately catch 'lightning in a bottle'.

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