After Weal / Elliot ..are Flyers done with FA?

[brelic]

23 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

@brelic

 

some great points ....  first step is to , again, stop these insane contracts.  Since you mentioned it, Oshie is a perfect example.  I'll even go out on a limb and I'll add Kuznetsov to that list.  Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a limit on the contract since the last NHL lockout.  I can't seem to remember the details.  Regardless...great post.

 

 

How do you stop them short of banning them? After the ridiculous decade+ contracts under the previous CBA, the league moved to limit to 8 years if resigning your own player / FA, and 7 years if signing someone else. 

 

The issue, even with 8 year contracts, is that they far outlast the peak years of a player so you're bound to have a bunch of bad years in there. 

 

 

[pilldoc]

14 minutes ago, brelic said:

After the ridiculous decade+ contracts under the previous CBA, the league moved to limit to 8 years if resigning your own player / FA, and 7 years if signing someone else.

 

Ah .. I knew there was something about contracts in the last CBA.  thanks.

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Absolutely! This is the problem I'm trying to solve. It's not even *borderline* players.... Oshie has been signed to a RIDICULOUS deal. He's going on 31 this season, signed until he's 39 years old. I can all but guarantee he does not play out that contract.

 

So how does the current system help small market teams? They can't afford to dole out $60+ million dollars to players they KNOW will never give them that much value. If you remove the compliance buyout penalty (or substantially reduce it), you might actually help small market teams by making more players available.

 

Or, how about removing compliance buyout options for ANY contract over 4 years. You want to sign a player for 8 years? Well, go ahead, but you'll deal with it for 8 years. A bit like what they were trying to accomplish with the cap recapture, I guess.

 

 

 

 

Haha, LOVE it!

 

 

Yes, that's a great point. But how much hockey will Read play this year anyway? It's harder when you're talking about a player like MacDud, who makes way too much, and I'm sure the Flyers would love nothing more than to get rid of him, but they play him anyway. He would be hurt by being on the list as a victim of too much money for what he brings - even if he still brings an NHL-level game for most teams as a 5/6/7.

 

Read does too... but I really think he's a fringe player at this point.

 

 

Great point about the non-compete. It does place the players in a kind of purgatory. 

 

I just think there's a better way to deal with things than the way they are now. Compliance buyouts are onerous, contract lengths are too much, and it's hard to *blame* the owners. Any system with rules will be exploited for maximum gain. That's what modern capitalism in America looks like! They're not bad people for exploiting it - they're just maximizing their return under the rules.

 

 

Great post.   I like the attempt at its core.  Work out some peripheral glitches and you probably have a workable system.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

@brelic

 

some great points ....  first step is to , again, stop these insane contracts.  Since you mentioned it, Oshie is a perfect example.  I'll even go out on a limb and I'll add Kuznetsov to that list.  Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a limit on the contract since the last NHL lockout.  I can't seem to remember the details.  Regardless...great post.

 

 

Do you think maybe 8 years is too long?  It does lock out smaller market teams.   What if 4 were the limit?   It protects management from itself.   It also gives smaller market teams maybe more of a workable frame work.  I think probably it hurts some players, so I don't know that the NHLPA would go for this, either, but 15 years ago we'd have sat here and said they'd never go for a Cap or the 8 year thing.   But imagine a player coming up on his first UFA at 25 or something and only being able to do 4 years and then getting to re-negotiate in 4.   There's pros and cons for the player, but those who perform get paid.  Those who don't get paid by the Islanders.

[pilldoc]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Do you think maybe 8 years is too long?

 

Honestly, yeah, I think it is a bit too long.  However, that is just my opinion.  I get the economics of the game and I also realize the players want to earn as much s possible before hanging up the skates.  I guess a lot depends on the players age.  If you have a player like McDavid and his ELC is up as say when he is 22 or 23.  I get that an eight year deal keeps him until he is 30 or 31.  Still hopefully in his prime.  

 

Now lets say you have player B when he is 28 or 29.  Why give him an eight year deal?  Again I get that this will be the last contract for this player and the player wants to retire with that particular team, however, as we all know, a players skills start to decline when a player is in his early 30's.  (yes there are exceptions).  Why tie up a team with cap issues when you have a contract this long.  We joke about the contract with Oshie, but what are really the odds of him finishing out his contract?  It will just hamper the Capitals in the future (great for us Flyer fans, but for that franchise, it could possibly put them in a real bind. 

 

Same with the Habs and the contracts that they gave out to Weber and Price.  Is Price worth it, sure he is, but in a few years if he gets injured or he declines quickly, then in essence the Habs are screwed.

Now lets say the contract is a max of 5 years, then teams are potentially not hurting themselves long term.  If they need roster turnover, then at least there is a possible way out.  If a player is still producing / excelling at or above what he initially signed...great then that team can re-sign.  If anything, it gives a chance for other teams to keep up with the Jones and create parity in the league. 

 

Hope I'm making some type of sense since I started typing a reply.  I know what I want to say and it might not always translate well.

 

19 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

There's pros and cons for the player, but those who perform get paid

 

yup absolutely agree!

 

20 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Those who don't get paid by the Islanders.

 

we can blame the Islanders for this whole mess! After all look at that contract Milbury signed DiPetro at!!  That says it all...

 

On September 12, 2006, the Islanders signed DiPietro to a 15-year, $67.5 million ($80.19 million in 2016 dollars^[7]) contract, which was believed to be the longest contract to date in the NHL and the second-longest in North American sports,

 

I don't know maybe if we max contracts out at 5 years things will be different ....I really don't know.  Just kind of thinking out loud here....  Just my 2 cents....but I get your drift.

[elmatus]

18 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Do you think maybe 8 years is too long?

 

8 years is too long for any player that isn't a franchise stalwart near the beginning of his career. That's a pretty short list at any given time.

 

That said, we are possibly nearing another lock out year. I wouldn't be shocked to see a bunch of garbage contract signings in the next little while, made by teams who do believe there is a lockout coming and who will then work to build in some sort of loopholes to get rid of said overpaid players following a new CBA.

 

It's entirely possible WSH has no intention of having Oshie play out that contract. He is now a prime buyout candidate if and when a new CBA gives them some freebies to burn.

[ruxpin]

43 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

8 years is too long for any player that isn't a franchise stalwart near the beginning of his career. That's a pretty short list at any given time.

 

That said, we are possibly nearing another lock out year. I wouldn't be shocked to see a bunch of garbage contract signings in the next little while, made by teams who do believe there is a lockout coming and who will then work to build in some sort of loopholes to get rid of said overpaid players following a new CBA.

 

It's entirely possible WSH has no intention of having Oshie play out that contract. He is now a prime buyout candidate if and when a new CBA gives them some freebies to burn.

 

I think what you say here is sadly deadly accurate.   I have little doubt this is what happens and is why you're seeing really self-destructive contracts.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

8 years is too long for any player that isn't a franchise stalwart near the beginning of his career.

 

 

I agree the only one on the Flyers i would feel comfortable giving a deal like that too is Ivan. The only one.