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yave1964

Marleau turns over new Leaf

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WordsOfWisdom    827
36 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Most comparables on that list of your had arguments occasionally. Some should NOT be in the hall of fame. Nieuwendyk, Roenick.

 

Roenick got in for being the highest scoring American-born player (I think).  :thinking:

 

Nieuwendyk finished his career with the Leafs (and was awesome in Toronto), which certainly helped his cause. 

 

Question: Did Daniel Alfredsson get into the HOF?

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jammer2    4,712
11 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Again, he was "Very good" for a long time and consistent, but never top10 in the league.

 

There was never a year you were like "Wow, Patty is the best player in the league". There was never a year he was even top 10. Once or twice, he was a top 10 forward, but on the fringes of 9th.

 

He finished 4th and 6th in goals during his best years. 10th in assists once. Points top 10 NEVER. Good defensively but Was never a selke threat. Never a game breaker.

 

Most comparables on that list of your had arguments occasionally. Some should NOT be in the hall of fame. Nieuwendyk, Roenick, Andreychuk.

 

Others are in and deserve it, but Hawerchuk was top 10 in points several times, including 3rd and 4th place finishes in an era with Gretzky/Lemieux(Which makes it as good as 1st place normally). Same with Savard.

 

Oates buries Marleau in top 10 scoring finishes and has the distinction of being one of the greatest playmakers of all time(Much like his current teammate Jumbo Joe). Gilmour has multiple top 10 scoring finishes AND won and was high on the Selke list multiple seasons AND was top 5 in Hart voting 3+ times. Francis just buries patty too.

 

Mahovlich and Perreault both bury him in top 10 finishes with 5-10 seasons to his zero.

 

The closest Hall of fame comparison for Marleau to me is Mike Gartner, although Gartner has a few more top 10 goal finishes and a single top 10 point finish.

 

Quick recap:

For award finishes, unless you finished top 5, you probably only caught some fringe votes for 4th and 5th place, probably from SJ writers, so it barely counts. Example Marleau's career year.

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Thornton somehow managed to get 7 votes for the Hart from writers(one 4th, six 5th) the same year Marleau got 4 votes (three 4th, one 6th). The 5th place finisher got 89 votes.

 

Top 10 Scoring finishes and awards:

Marleau: top 10 Goals  twice, assists once in 10th, points, never. No award consideration.

Nieuwendyk: Goals 5, Assists points never. Awards no consideration. Why is he in the hall of fame

Francis: Goals none. Assists twelve top 10 finishes, twice 1st, points 5, four top 5 Selke finishes.

Perreault: top 10 in goals 4 times, top 10 in assists 5 times, top 10 in points 5 times, 5th for Hart trophy once.

Oates: top 10 in goals never. Top 10 in assists twelve times with 3 1st place finishes, top 10 in points seven times, with three of them being 3rd place(gretzky/Lemieux era). 4th place Hart finish, 5th place Selke finish.

Andreychuk: Why is he in the hall of fame? Top 10 in goals twice, assists once, points once. No award consideration.

Mahovlich: 8 top 10 goal scoring finishes(2nd 4 times), three top 10 assist finishes, 7 top 10 point finishes and two years in top 4-5 for the Hart.

Gilmour: Top 10 in goals once, top 10 in assists 5 times, top 10 in points 3 times, Finished top 2, 4 and 5 for the Hart and Won the Selke and had a runner up + another top 5 finish.

Hawerchuk: top 10 in goals three times, top 10 in assists five times, top 10 in points 4 times, 2nd and 5th hart finishes

Savard: top 10 in goals once, top 10 in assists five times, top 10 in points five times and finished 3rd and 5th for the Hart.

Roenick: top 10 in goals twice, top 10 in assists never, top 10 in points twice, no awards consideration. How is he in the hall of fame?

 

Yeah, Marleau only compares favorably to 3 guys on that list. Roenick, Nieuwendyk and Andreychuk. All of whom I do not think should be in the hall of fame.

 

This is nothing new I am preaching. I have been saying this about Marleau for YEARS, long before he left the team.

 

7

 

 

 I hear ya on Niews and Anderychuk...they were not elite players.  I always viewed Marleau as a lite version of Lucky Luc Robitaille. 

 

 I really like Marleau's all time GWG's and OT and playoff GW's....he was quite the money player. 16 career GWG's in the playoffs...that is nice...but not enough stats like that , agreed. 

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BluPuk    358

I see what you did with the title yave1964 :VeryCool:

 

I must admit that I just don't get what Lou thinks Marleau can do for this team. At least, on the ice. 6 mill a year is a lot of money for a dressing room philosopher? Time will tell, eh?    :hockey-goal-scoring-smiley-emoticon:

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jammer2    4,712
On 8/18/2017 at 7:19 AM, BluPuk said:

I see what you did with the title yave1964 :VeryCool:

 

I must admit that I just don't get what Lou thinks Marleau can do for this team. At least, on the ice. 6 mill a year is a lot of money for a dressing room philosopher? Time will tell, eh?    :hockey-goal-scoring-smiley-emoticon:

 

 There some definate positives for the Leafs. He STILL has very nice wheels....skating has not slipped. He still has nice hands, still utilizes teammates around him nicely. His insticts and hockey vision will probably never leave him, so a spot in the top 6, playing on a line with Nylander or Matthews...or even Kadri depending on how they work it out...that will be a very nice plus for the Leafs. My only real problem with the move is 3 years instead of 2. A good chance he will be a cap drain on that last year of his deal. 

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         ha ha....funny, but it has a twinge of truth to it. Signing Marleau seems to be the shiny new toy kind of Homerisitic thing. It blocks younger players from the top 6, and gives a 3 year cap hit. I would have been ok with 2 if I was the Leafs, the last year is big. It will come at a time when the cap crunch for Matthews and Marner will get paid....and not bridge deals. Having said all that, you can make the argument that adding Marleau will help the Leafs go further in the playoffs, get the most out of their young core....he can still skate, which is big. Maybe adding Marleau gives the Leafs another playoff round, hell, maybe even puts them over the top if the kids continue to rise as expected. It has it's risks, but you can make a case for positives. Myself, I woulda laid off, stay patient and save the cap space for guys who are young and can contribute when the young core is fully developed. 
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        You are right about that. He will not be able to escape the media in Toronto.
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         Strategically speaking, I don't think the Leafs should be out buying up UFA d-men. I think this years first rounder Liligren is a STAR....he will be contributing in 2 years....this Rosen Swedish dman already skates like an NHL dman...McDermot is ready, might make the Leafs right now....signing vets to long term deals blocks these kids....and you already have Gardnier and Riley, who will still be in their primes in 5 years....or close to it. The Leafs NEED these talented but CHEAP D prospects coming into the fold, cause the forwards will take a BIG chunk of the cap in a few years. 

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