The Tatar quandary

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, yave1964 said:

I think you can say that about most anyone, most players playing alongside a star will see an uptick in their numbers, last year Tats was down until paired with Z and then his numbers went up, he was easily the teams leading goal scorer. The Wings offense is horrible, you simply could not afford to let him get away. Like I said, a passable winger on a top line, a very solid second liner. Throw in that unlike so many of his mates he back checks and is responsible in his own zone and you have to like (but not love) the signing. 

 

  Yes, you can make a strong argument that the Wings need goals badly. Vanek kicked in a bit of offense and he is probably gone, so losing another 25 goals would be unwise. My gut says the Wings will regret this....but hey, he's signed to a reasonable deal when factoring in scoring and defense. If the Wings wish to go all in on a rebuild, he could command a nice return at the deadline, so they Wings still have options. 

[SpikeDDS]

14 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

  Yes, you can make a strong argument that the Wings need goals badly. Vanek kicked in a bit of offense and he is probably gone, so losing another 25 goals would be unwise. My gut says the Wings will regret this....but hey, he's signed to a reasonable deal when factoring in scoring and defense. If the Wings wish to go all in on a rebuild, he could command a nice return at the deadline, so they Wings still have options. 

 

This is a fair result, much more reasonable than what he was asking during the negotiation phase. This one is just about right cap- and term-wise.

 

Is it going to transform our franchise from what is has been to greatness again? No, it is not. But that's not what THIS deal was about. This was about trying to maintain some kind of stability so that we can avoid the dreaded full-on rebuild. (Dreaded by whom is worthy of discussion, as is whether a full-on rebuild might be in the best long-term interests of the Wings.)

 

Transformation of this franchise will not happen without bringing in new talent, whether via draft and development or by trade or by the FA market. Simply extending the contracts for those currently playing will not do it. Compared to some of the other players who previously received extensions, I prefer this extension. But in looking at the bigger picture, we have extended the contracts of too many players for too much and too long, and because of that, even this deal can seem a bit more more-of-the-same than it merits.

 

In other words, I like this deal in itself, but when looked at in the context of all of the other deals we've made, I like it less than it deserves.

[jammer2]

On 7/23/2017 at 0:23 PM, SpikeDDS said:

Is it going to transform our franchise from what is has been to greatness again? No, it is not. But that's not what THIS deal was about. This was about trying to maintain some kind of stability so that we can avoid the dreaded full-on rebuild. (Dreaded by whom is worthy of discussion, as is whether a full-on rebuild might be in the best long-term interests of the Wings.)

 

 

 Holland is a REAL tough spot. My gut says he will not survive another non playoff appearance by the Wings, but I do believe the best thing for the franchise is a complete rebuild. Holland can't do this and still save his job, so he will do some patch work and attempt to make the playoffs. Part of the problem is the AHL dmen they have been grooming have not developed into the NHL players they thought they would be. Guys like Ouellete and Sproul have been underwhelming, although Jensen has worked out well. 

 

  If the Wings barely make the playoffs or just miss, like I think they will, they will draft middle of the pack. This prevents them from drafting the #1 franchise center they need so badly. That is why I think a tear it down mentality would help them out, you can't sign a #1 C, you have to draft them, and they are all gone by the 7th or 8th pick. 

[SpikeDDS]

15 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Holland is a REAL tough spot. My gut says he will not survive another non playoff appearance by the Wings, but I do believe the best thing for the franchise is a complete rebuild. Holland can't do this and still save his job, so he will do some patch work and attempt to make the playoffs. Part of the problem is the AHL dmen they have been grooming have not developed into the NHL players they thought they would be. Guys like Ouellete and Sproul have been underwhelming, although Jensen has worked out well. 

 

  If the Wings barely make the playoffs or just miss, like I think they will, they will draft middle of the pack. This prevents them from drafting the #1 franchise center they need so badly. That is why I think a tear it down mentality would help them out, you can't sign a #1 C, you have to draft them, and they are all gone by the 7th or 8th pick. 

 

See, and if he had decided to do this announcing to the world that he was moving forward with a total rebuild, thus probably ending the streak, but to avoid staying in the basement for a long time, there would have been some doubters, but I think most fans would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But now, it is not just the loss of our talent that has brought us here, but also a combination of draft picks that haven't panned out as well as we had hoped, plus a loss of several players to waivers, plus the decision to move prospects for rentals to extend the streak, plus several overresignings that now prevent any real kind of dealing, plus a lack of trading and moving talent for prospects, all of which point directly at him. Now he can't hide. It's not simple failure in one area. It has been systemic mismanagement.

 

Then you look at this draft and that first pick and it makes sense. He continues to mismanage. Truthfully, this goes back almost a decade. I'm not even talking about the choice of Franzen over Hossa. But I would include Franzen's ridiculous contract. Basically, what has happened post-Lidstrom is a net LARGE hemorrhage of talent both on the ice and from the front office, and Holland cannot make up for it all. And since there isn't anyone else who has been here for that whole period to blame this on anymore, it sticks to him now. Rightly. 

[jammer2]

 

8 hours ago, SpikeDDS said:

But now, it is not just the loss of our talent that has brought us here, but also a combination of draft picks that haven't panned out as well as we had hoped, plus a loss of several players to waivers, plus the decision to move prospects for rentals to extend the streak, plus several overresignings that now prevent any real kind of dealing, plus a lack of trading and moving talent for prospects, all of which point directly at him. Now he can't hide. It's not simple failure in one area. It has been systemic mismanagement.

 

 

 If Holland was smart, he would hoard the 4 players listed in the link below (a nice read btw if you have not seen it), plus AA, Larkin and Mantha. That is 7 untouchables, some because of NHL talent, some just because you don't know what you have, but it could be really good. Everyone else should be on the trading block. It would be tough to let go of Zetts, but if they are not in a playoff position, A) gives him one last chance to win the cup and B) Wings might get a first rounder and a prospect. Imagine adding Zetts to a strong playoff contender, so many ways to use him, the playoff grit, even at his age, he would command a small fortune. 

 

The reasoning being they would still be in their prime even if a full rebuild did take place. If a rebuild does not happen with Holland, it WILL happen with his successor. 

 

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-top-4-prospects-2017/