King Knut Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 7/16/2017 at 0:48 PM, OccamsRazor said: Like him or not listen to his message.... He was actually really good in college. The Patriots weren't idiots. He got the job because the starter got hurt. He kept the job because he got lucky in a playoff game when the refs blew a call... a play they subsequently changed the rules to justify. He won the super bowl despite being blown away by the opposing quarterback and barely passing for 100 yards. The real story about Tom Brady and his success is what he did with that. He didn't say to himself "Well I got lucky and my defense bailed me out" He said to himself "Hot Damn, I'm the greatest football player in history" and he believed it. He believed it even though it wasn't even close to being true and he believed it and believed it until he actually became a damn good football player. By the time you get to last year's super bowl the guy can literally do anything he decides to do. ... except beat the damn Giants and outplay Eli Manning. Somehow that eludes him still. But if he's impressive to me it's because he became great despite being kinda mediocre for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, vis said: Being healthy will help Exactly my point how many athletes are dealing with an injury/recovery and are faster and quicker than when healthy?? I'll tell ya...none...so being healthy will help him be quicker and overall better. So being healthy to start the season will go along way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, King Knut said: I think the upright skating you're talking about is directly related to the injury and what Claude himself described as just not being able to do things like he normally did. Wasn't just an issue last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, vis said: The whole team needs to be in unison - including Giroux. Uh isn't that all the people?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, OccamsRazor said: Uh isn't that all the people?? I read your post as everyone has to be in unison with Giroux. Not necessarily the team. I stand corrected on re-read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Exactly my point how many athletes are dealing with an injury/recovery and are faster and quicker than when healthy?? I'll tell ya...none...so being healthy will help him be quicker and overall better. So being healthy to start the season will go along way. As mentioned, it's a start. But he has to be better than where he was two years ago, which means training - in addition to getting healthy. Pretty sure he didn't have an injury that affected his skating back then. I don't think being healthy alone will vault him to "elite" status again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, King Knut said: He was actually really good in college. He was ok. He was a backup to Griese his 1st two years and the last two battled Drew Henson the rest of his time there and IIRC his last year he split a lot of time with Henson at QB. Soi have to just label him ok. There was a lot of reason he slide to the 6th round. But the best attribute is he always gave his best and never quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, vis said: But he has to be better than where he was two years ago I guess i can't remember a lot about that year i'm assuming you're talking about 14-15 Homer's last year as GM?? A team with Rinaldo, Vinny and RJ on it??? A blueline with 3 sloths on it GrossmanN, Schenn and Schultz??? Yeah ok i guess we can blame it on Giroux why not it is the thing to do this offseason.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, vis said: Pretty sure he didn't have an injury that affected his skating back then. He finished 12th in scoring ahead of Stamkos, Malkin, and Getzlaf just to mention a few. 5th overall by Centers...guys ahead of him?? Tavares, Crosby, Backstrom and Seguin...yeah let's blame Giroux... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: He was ok. He was a backup to Griese his 1st two years and the last two battled Drew Henson the rest of his time there and IIRC his last year he split a lot of time with Henson at QB. Soi have to just label him ok. There was a lot of reason he slide to the 6th round. But the best attribute is he always gave his best and never quit. He picked apart the Big Ten pretty darn good, finished 5th and 12th in the final rankings and had a QB rating of over 130 while throwing for over 2000 yds in both of his junior and senior years. Henson didn't really compete for anything. He threw 45 and 89 passes those seasons. Brady was good. He fell to the 6th round mostly because though he was tall enough, he wasn't that big and didn't seem strong and looked like he'd get ripped apart in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, King Knut said: He picked apart the Big Ten pretty darn good, finished 5th and 12th in the final rankings and had a QB rating of over 130 while throwing for over 2000 yds in both of his junior and senior years. Henson didn't really compete for anything. He threw 45 and 89 passes those seasons. Brady was good. He fell to the 6th round mostly because though he was tall enough, he wasn't that big and didn't seem strong and looked like he'd get ripped apart in the NFL. He still split time at QB he played in 11 games and Drew played in 9....he wasn't a the clear starter. So as i said that is just ok. Hence the 6th round selection. Slice it however you want. Drew Henson wasn't that great of a QB himself which make sit sadder that Brady couldn't clearly put him on the bench his last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yeah ok i guess we can blame it on Giroux why not it is the thing to do this offseason.... I'm sorry. I missed where I blamed Giroux for the entire team's shortcomings that year. If you don't feel his play has tailed in recent years, due to injuries or otherwise, I am not sure what to tell you. He needs to produce more and be better in general than he has been the past couple of seasons. I think, in order to do that, being healthy alone isn't sufficient (although it clearly helps). Is there a problem with that thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: He still split time at QB he played in 11 games and Drew played in 9....he wasn't a the clear starter. So as i said that is just ok. Hence the 6th round selection. Slice it however you want. Drew Henson wasn't that great of a QB himself which make sit sadder that Brady couldn't clearly put him on the bench his last two years. Playing in games isn't the same as taking the majority of the snaps. When you look at their numbers, there's no comparison. Brady was the clear number one without any question marks. Henson's not even within spitting distance of his snaps or what he did with them. He was a good player. A guy who put up the numbers he did and took the team to where he took them should never have fallen to the 6th round. He fell to the 6th round because he wasn't miles ahead and a clear future #1 QB and most teams aren't going to spend even a 4th or 5th round pick on a guy they assume will end up a backup QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: He finished 12th in scoring ahead of Stamkos, Malkin, and Getzlaf just to mention a few. 5th overall by Centers...guys ahead of him?? Tavares, Crosby, Backstrom and Seguin...yeah let's blame Giroux... Yeah, that's the level I'd like for him to get back to. My point is, that was the last season that I can recall that an injury wasn't cited as substantially hampering him. What's the issue with that? Where am I blaming Giroux for anything? Really struggling to understand what you're on about here... And if you don't think his struggles 5v5 are an issue and worth of scrutiny or blame or whatever term you want to use, I really don't know what to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, vis said: Is there a problem with that thinking? No by all means don't let me stop you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, vis said: Yeah, that's the level I'd like for him to get back to. What? You just said that year he wasn't good two years ...o i gave you the stats of people better than him and now you're ok with it?? Very confusing i'm out headed to the gym feel free to expect what you like from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, OccamsRazor said: No by all means don't let me stop you. What does that even mean? Just trying to understand: - Are you ok with Giroux's play the past couple of seasons? - As a corollary, do you think it needs to be better? - If yes to the above, what about his game needs to improve and how do you think he can improve upon it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, vis said: Yeah, that's the level I'd like for him to get back to. You-"Even two years ago, after the wrist injury, he looked to have lost some quickness." Me- 5th overall by Centers...guys ahead of him?? Tavares, Crosby, Backstrom and Seguin...yeah let's blame Giroux... So one minute you complain about him and then say you want him to get back there....which you said wasn't good enough!?? #confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: What? You just said that year he wasn't good two years ...o i gave you the stats of people better than him and now you're ok with it?? Very confusing i'm out headed to the gym feel free to expect what you like from him. I see the issue. By two years ago, I meant the 15/16 campaign. He has to be better than that. 14/15 was the year I'd like for him to get back at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, vis said: He has to be better than that. Sure but he still finished 10th among centers. He can't do it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, OccamsRazor said: You-"Even two years ago, after the wrist injury, he looked to have lost some quickness." Me- 5th overall by Centers...guys ahead of him?? Tavares, Crosby, Backstrom and Seguin...yeah let's blame Giroux... So one minute you complain about him and then say you want him to get back there....which you said wasn't good enough!?? #confused Yep, totally my fault. Got my injury years messed up. Bottom line - he needs to be better than he has the past two seasons (15/16 & 16/17). Would like him to be at the level he was in 14/15 (three years ago), if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure but he still finished 10th among centers. He can't do it alone. He's paid like a top 10 player. Not a top 10 center. I'll just ask: Is Giroux your favorite player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, vis said: Yep, totally my fault. Got my injury years messed up. Bottom line - he needs to be better than he has the past two seasons (15/16 & 16/17). Would like him to be at the level he was in 14/15 (three years ago), if not better. The whole team needs to be better and come out the gate winning for a change not a month and a half slumps and not finishing games....the games in october are worth the same amount of points as they are come march. I think we agree just saying it differently if that makes sense. Play the whole 60 minutes plus and they can make the playoffs i think after that i'm not sure. Some luck with the kids coming to play and some with health can go along ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, vis said: Is Giroux your favorite player? One of them. My favorite right now is Ivan. Hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: The whole team needs to be better and come out the gate winning for a change not a month and a half slumps and not finishing games....the games in october are worth the same amount of points as they are come march. I think we agree just saying it differently if that makes sense. Play the whole 60 minutes plus and they can make the playoffs i think after that i'm not sure. Some luck with the kids coming to play and some with health can go along ways. Ok. No one disagrees with that. But I thought this is a thread about Giroux, specifically (or that started that way). I pointed out that I think he needs to be quicker and being healthy alone isn't enough. Where is the problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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