A Take on Giroux in 2017-18

[jammer2]

17 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Wow speaking of his production. Giroux puts up 14 goals and gets roasted not stop here...Ryan Johnson just signed an 8 year 64 mill deal (8mill AAV) after posting back to back 14 goals seasons....sheesh!!!!!!

 

#justsaying

 

 Well, the old saying two wrongs don't make a right applies here. They are both bad contracts. We were laughing at work last night about how much Nashville ponied up. 

 

 The sad part, Ryan Johanssen may have had 14 goals, but he had more 5 on 5 goals last year than G last season, 7 to 6....yes, our captain and star player had a WHOPPING 6 goals 5 on 5  last year. That is pitful. He is not even averaging a 5 on 5 goal a month for God's sake!!  Unacceptable. 

[OccamsRazor]

53 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Well, the old saying two wrongs don't make a right applies here. They are both bad contracts. We were laughing at work last night about how much Nashville ponied up. 

 

 The sad part, Ryan Johanssen may have had 14 goals, but he had more 5 on 5 goals last year than G last season, 7 to 6....yes, our captain and star player had a WHOPPING 6 goals 5 on 5  last year. That is pitful. He is not even averaging a 5 on 5 goal a month for God's sake!!  Unacceptable. 

 

Sure he had more goals and Giroux was dealing with an injury to start the season that linger for a good bit of it too.

 

But he doesn't get any credit.

 

Either way i think rebouds and has a great year.

[jammer2]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure he had more goals and Giroux was dealing with an injury to start the season that linger for a good bit of it too.

 

But he doesn't get any credit.

 

Either way i think rebouds and has a great year.

 

 I hope you are right, but I see a pp specialist who will kick in 4 or 5 even strength goals. His line does seem to keep the puck out of their own end more often than not, so it's not all negative....BUT, his even strength goals have gone down 5 years in a row now, if the trend continues, it will be a horrible season for G. You can only get so many pp points. 

[OccamsRazor]

24 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

I hope you are right, but I see a pp specialist who will kick in 4 or 5 even strength goals.

 

 

I'm not sure of that. The year before he had 15 even strength goals (which was tied for 2nd on the team) and one shortie....this is where i think he'll get back to. Once they find some consistency with the lines and he has a steady LW who can help balance the line we'll see him prosper along with the whole team.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

yes, our captain and star player had a WHOPPING 6 goals 5 on 5  last year.

 

 

Also not true.

 

9 of his 14 goals where at even strength.

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Also not true.

 

9 of his 14 goals where at even strength.

 

 It's totally true, 5 on 5 is not the same as even strength. Even strength counts 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 situations. If you are a 8 million dollar a year star, you SHOULD be scoring 3 on 3 and 4 on 4....even those numbers are pitiful. 

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Also not true.

 

9 of his 14 goals where at even strength.

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/giroucl01-advanced-5on5.html

[AJgoal]

12 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

For most of us, Jake and G have been a given.  What if we gave Giroux Filppula on the left and Konecny on the right? 

Or Lindblom and Simmonds?  

 

I go Lindblom and Simmonds. Let them use their size to open up some space for Giroux. Also, they'll go to the slot, which is where Giroux looks to put the puck. Weal will to, but I like his speed on Couturier's wing. Raffl works there too.

 

12 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

I kinda really really like the idea of Weal Couturier and Voracek, but Patrick's got a hell of a slick shot.  Why not let Jake be the Vet to play along side Patrick?

 

Either him or Konecny works for me on Patrick's right. Filpulla is whom I want on his left. He can take some of the faceoff burden off the rookie.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 It's totally true, 5 on 5 is not the same as even strength. Even strength counts 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 situations. If you are a 8 million dollar a year star, you SHOULD be scoring 3 on 3 and 4 on 4....even those numbers are pitiful. 

 

 

Gotcha.

 

I stand corrected.

 

However it is still important at least to me is because 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 is even and not a powerplay with an extra man goal.

 

And still he had 13 5 on 5 goals the out of his 22 the year before where i think he will rebound to.

[King Knut]

On 7/29/2017 at 7:45 PM, AJgoal said:

 

I go Lindblom and Simmonds. Let them use their size to open up some space for Giroux. Also, they'll go to the slot, which is where Giroux looks to put the puck. Weal will to, but I like his speed on Couturier's wing. Raffl works there too.

 

 

Either him or Konecny works for me on Patrick's right. Filpulla is whom I want on his left. He can take some of the faceoff burden off the rookie.

 

I'm totally on  board with that.  I wonder why Giroux and Simmonds haven't ever been a consistent pair much.  Seems like a no brainer especially after the last two seasons in which GIroux seems to have switched to a play making role over a goal scoring role.  

 

My assumption was that Konecny naturally a RW,  but maybe I got that backwards?  I totally agree on Filppula on Patrick's LW though. 

 

I like Weal's speed with Couturier as well.  He's also got a bit of that puck hound kind of knack for generating chances and scoring.

 

Lindblom  Giroux  Simmonds

Filppula  Patrick  Voracek

Weal  Couturier  Konecny

Raffl    Laughton/Lehtera   Weise/Read

 

Ultimately I don't know if I like Voracek better with Patrick or with Couturier and vice versa with Konecny.

My only other hesitation with the above with whether Lindblom makes the top line or not.  If he does NOT, I'd think it would be something more like:

 

Weal  Giroux  Simmonds

Filppula  Patrick  Konecny

Lindblom Couturier  Voracek

Raffl    Laughton/Lehtera   Weise/Read

 

[jammer2]

On 7/29/2017 at 7:45 PM, AJgoal said:

I go Lindblom and Simmonds. Let them use their size to open up some space for Giroux. Also, they'll go to the slot, which is where Giroux looks to put the puck. Weal will to, but I like his speed on Couturier's wing. Raffl works there too.

 

 

 You don't know how players will actually mesh until they get on the ice, but on the surface, this looks respectable, refreshing even. They need to break up V and G, at least on regular lines....a new mix is needed to invigorate an offense which has stagnated. I would love to see how these guys worked together. 

[AJgoal]

16 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 You don't know how players will actually mesh until they get on the ice, but on the surface, this looks respectable, refreshing even. They need to break up V and G, at least on regular lines....a new mix is needed to invigorate an offense which has stagnated. I would love to see how these guys worked together. 

 

Yeah. Chemistry is something else. admittedly this is theory, but Simmonds and Giroux have statistically made good partners in the past.

[King Knut]

On 8/1/2017 at 4:17 PM, AJgoal said:

 

Yeah. Chemistry is something else. admittedly this is theory, but Simmonds and Giroux have statistically made good partners in the past.

 

Honestly, sometimes over the past two years (more so last year) it really felt like Hakstol was intentionally trying to avoid being good.  

 

G did best with Simmer?  let's split 'em up.

Jake did best with Coots?  let's split 'em up.

MacDonald did best with no one?  Let's put him on the top pairing.  

 

Okay, that was a joke... was it?  I can't tell anymore.

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

[vis]

On 7/31/2017 at 3:53 PM, King Knut said:

Lindblom  Giroux  Simmonds

Filppula  Patrick  Voracek

Weal  Couturier  Konecny

Raffl    Laughton/Lehtera   Weise/Read

 

Ultimately I don't know if I like Voracek better with Patrick or with Couturier and vice versa with Konecny.

My only other hesitation with the above with whether Lindblom makes the top line or not.  If he does NOT, I'd think it would be something more like:

 

Weal  Giroux  Simmonds

Filppula  Patrick  Konecny

Lindblom Couturier  Voracek

Raffl    Laughton/Lehtera   Weise/Read

Will be interesting to see how the top 9 shakes out.  There are a lot of good possibilities and combinations in my mind.  Couple of general thoughts:

 

- Definitely want to see Konecny back on the right side.  The number of LWs should ensure that happens.  My only concern is whether Weise's contract plays into whether he gets in the top 9.  My consolation is that Hakstol did scratch him and relegate him to fourth line duties at times.  However, he did show some life on Couturier's wing at the end of last season.

 

- Tough for me to decide whether Simmonds should be with Giroux or Patrick.  As much as I'd like to see Simmonds with Giroux (and Voracek on a separate line from Giroux), I think I'd prefer Simmonds' muscle to be paired with Patrick.  Want someone on the ice with Patrick keeping the opposition honest.

 

-  I know it's tough to pencil in a rookie for top line duty, but I think Lindblom would be best served paired with Giroux.  If not, then I'd like to see him get second line minutes.  Not really sure about Couturier centering him.

 

- I do kind of like the idea of Couturier centering Weal and Konecny.  Let those two rush up ice and Couturier hang back high in the slot and cover defensive miscues.  Alternatively, I could see Weal playing with Giroux in an effort to stretch the ice a little for Giroux and give him some room.  Lindblom would slot on the second line and Filppula with Couturier for me in that scenario .

 

- The fourth line is a bit of a mess, imo.  I want energy and PKers on the fourth line.  None of those guys really give me comfort in that regard.

[King Knut]

18 minutes ago, vis said:

Will be interesting to see how the top 9 shakes out.  There are a lot of good possibilities and combinations in my mind.  Couple of general thoughts:

 

- Definitely want to see Konecny back on the right side.  The number of LWs should ensure that happens.  My only concern is whether Weise's contract plays into whether he gets in the top 9.  My consolation is that Hakstol did scratch him and relegate him to fourth line duties at times.  However, he did show some life on Couturier's wing at the end of last season.

 

- Tough for me to decide whether Simmonds should be with Giroux or Patrick.  As much as I'd like to see Simmonds with Giroux (and Voracek on a separate line from Giroux), I think I'd prefer Simmonds' muscle to be paired with Patrick.  Want someone on the ice with Patrick keeping the opposition honest.

 

-  I know it's tough to pencil in a rookie for top line duty, but I think Lindblom would be best served paired with Giroux.  If not, then I'd like to see him get second line minutes.  Not really sure about Couturier centering him.

 

- I do kind of like the idea of Couturier centering Weal and Konecny.  Let those two rush up ice and Couturier hang back high in the slot and cover defensive miscues.  Alternatively, I could see Weal playing with Giroux in an effort to stretch the ice a little for Giroux and give him some room.  Lindblom would slot on the second line and Filppula with Couturier for me in that scenario .

 

- The fourth line is a bit of a mess, imo.  I want energy and PKers on the fourth line.  None of those guys really give me comfort in that regard.

 

In my scenario, every 4th line player makes over 2 million.  Weise would be one of the lowest paid guys on that line (Lehtera and Read make more and Raffl makes the same).  Weise has the most years remaining on his contract of the 4 of them, is that what you mean? 

 

Honestly, I can't see it becoming a factor.  Maybe in the back of someone's head it can push him over the top if Hakstol has other reasons to play him here or there.  Ultimately, who plays where in the lineup is Hakstol's purview, and I don't think he (by design) cares how much a guy makes.  If it does become a conscious factor, then we should all give up now.  If these guys aren't being placed based on skill set, then we're just screwed.  You're right about Couturier's wing.  That part was odd.  Put them together and they start scoring?  Maybe with a Weal on the left side it keeps up?  Hard to say.  The advent of a full time Weal, Lindblom and Patrick potentially pushing Fillpula to LW really create some very new looks.  One way or the other the 4th line is going to be completely different.  It's either going to have some hyped up speedy talent and it won't be a checking line anymore or it's going to have 3 of Weise, Raffl, Read, Lehtera and Laughton.  The really fun part is that if Lindblom and Patrick make the team, 2 of the above will be riding the pine or worse yet, riding the bus in the Penn-Muda Triangle between Allentown, Scaranton and Hershey.

 

I can totally agree on the idea of putting Simmonds with Patrick from a security stand point.  From a skill-set standpoint, they're both finishers.  Combine this with the fact that Jake and G are both play makers in need of a finisher (which may turn out to be Lindblom or Weal mind you) and I feel like there might be more productive combinations.  However, you're right.  Patrick needs to be protected a little bit and it may end up being more than Voracek is up for.

 

Lindblom with Giroux is my first choice, but if for some reason it doesn't work out, I don't necessarily want him on Patrick's LW their first season.  They're both so damn young.   In that scenario, I specifically moved him to Couturier's LW because I'd already moved Voracek to Couturier's RW. 

 

Weal Couturier and Konecny is interesting to think about right?  Konecny and Coots had some success together last year, and his speed combined with Weal's speed (and frankly the raw energy he provides) might be what Coots needs and the kind of play you're talking about is exactly what I'm thinking there.  If Coots is the forward to collapse inside his blue line and he and an improved D pairing can regain control of the puck more easily, that first pass (whether it's coming from Coots, Ghost, Provo or Sanheim) is going to be of much better quality and if it's outletting to one of those two, they're going to have the opposing D on their heels immediately.  If they can't get behind them for a clean shot, Coots in the slot is very promising.  

 

I'm surprised at your opinion of the 4th line.  I feel like "energy and PKers " is the perfect way to describe these five:  Raffl   Laughton/Lehtera   Weise/Read.  Ultimately I want Vecchione to center that line, because he's got all of that and is killer on face offs, but he's the only waiver exempt guy.

 

Read is still fast and has been a regular on the PK.  His play driving numbers are excellent.  he just can't score anymore for some reason.   Laughton apparently spent all last year preparing to center the 4th line this year. Lehtera was a 2nd liner moved to the 4th line in the playoffs and he actually scored more there.  Raffl to me isn't a penalty killer by experience, but his skill set would seem to make him ideal for a 4th line role on this team.  He's defensively responsible, he's not slow, he's hard to move.  He just has hands of stone for some reason and can't finish or finesse much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fanaticV3.0]

On 7/28/2017 at 8:18 AM, jammer2 said:

 My take on G....he is about to become the first ever 8 million dollar forward to NOT surpass the 50 point threshold.  

 

Quiet you. You said Jeff Carter was going to score 60 goals.

[jammer2]

20 hours ago, fanaticV3.0 said:

 

Quiet you. You said Jeff Carter was going to score 60 goals.

 

 I still contend it was a decent call. It was asking a 23 year old Jeff  to score 14 more goals than the previous season. Who peaks at 23? Not only peaked, he never got to 40 ever again. In the end, he was just not smart enough to take it to the next level, but he had the skills if only he had the vision. 

 

 I think Laine scores 60 goals by 2020...and when it happens,, I will say I told you so...ha ha!

[fanaticV3.0]

29 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I still contend it was a decent call. It was asking a 23 year old Jeff  to score 14 more goals than the previous season. Who peaks at 23? Not only peaked, he never got to 40 ever again. In the end, he was just not smart enough to take it to the next level, but he had the skills if only he had the vision. 

 

 I think Laine scores 60 goals by 2020...and when it happens,, I will say I told you so...ha ha!

 

That is some superfan level stubbornness right there.

 

As far as the rest of your post and the rest of his career goes, he might not have ever gotten to 40 goals again, but he turned out to be better than I thought he would by the time he left here.

[OccamsRazor]

Flyers need this Giroux back....

 

 

 

....not this one....

 

[RJ8812]

I don't think we will ever see that Giroux back. It's been 2 seasons since Giroux has ever single handedly taken over a game. I'm afraid I just don't see him reverting back to what he was 3 years ago 

[jammer2]

7 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

I don't think we will ever see that Giroux back. It's been 2 seasons since Giroux has ever single handedly taken over a game. I'm afraid I just don't see him reverting back to what he was 3 years ago 

 

 He's never been the same since he grabbed that Cop's arse a few years back. It's like his touching of a foreign male ass magically negated his talent. 

[OccamsRazor]

Bold prediction from Appleyard...

 

 

 

...i hope he is right and then some...

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Bold prediction from Appleyard...

 

 

 

...i hope he is right and then some...

 

Bah, those predictions don't seem so bold to me. He's basically just going the route of G and Jake regaining their touch, and Ghost shaking off the slump. I'm not saying it'll happen, but I wouldn't call them bold predictions.

 

Here are some actual bold predictions for you: Lindblom scores 20g in his rookie season, and Patrick wins the Calder with a 55pt season and +10 p/m.

 

I'm not saying either of those will happen either, but I'd consider them actual bold predictions.

[vis]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Bold prediction from Appleyard...

 

 

 

...i hope he is right and then some...

Flyers better hope those predictions come true.

 

In all honesty, I don't see Giroux regressing further, but 75 points is the very high end of where I think he could end up.  I'll be very happy with 70 points.