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Crosby Better Than Gretzky?


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On 8/10/2017 at 1:29 PM, flyercanuck said:

Gretzky would have seasons where he'd have more assists than the 2nd place guy would have points. Then you throw on his 50-60-70-80-92 goals on top!  

 

 Crosby is currently the best player in the league...but he's never come close to dominating the way Gretzky did.

 

I can't believe you even had to post this argument for that!

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On 8/10/2017 at 6:32 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

This doesn't even deserve consideration.

 

The only guys that can remotely be considered in Gretzky's stratosphere are Orr, Howe and Lemieux. And even they are decidedly behind

 

 


Agreed

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On 8/11/2017 at 3:26 PM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Grange is a pretty smart cookie. He makes an excellent point: Crosby plays with two dead-weight wingers. Gretzky played with two of the greatest wingers of all time. In terms of team depth, there's no comparison. The Oilers were stacked. The modern day "dynasty" (snicker) Penguins crushed by modern day cap restrictions would lose 4-0 if they ran into that Oilers team. They wouldn't be able to match any of the Oilers lines talent for talent. 

 

Crosby would need to have Karlsson feeding him the puck, with Ovechkin on his wing, and then he'd be playing with the kind of talent that Gretzky had on his line (at least for one line only). :)

 

 

Ovechkin maybe ten years ago.  Ovechkin now?  Not so much....

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12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I don't agree with this at all.

 

You're talking about a generational talent with all this talent now in modern times #1 overall and the talent back then no where as good and neither of them went #1 overall.

 

Yzerman went 4th and Sakic went 15th to me great players but no where in the same class as Crosby.

 

I'm cool not agreeing like Sid or not he is the best thing to come out in forever.

 

Now i think Mcdavid has a chance to be as good if not better than he i guess we'll see.

 

I guess my only gripe with Crosby has been the lack of goal scoring. He has chosen to be more of a Joe Thornton/Adam Oates type of player for most of his career. To be in that "top tier" of all time, you have to be the best goal scorer in the NHL during your time because goals are the most important thing in hockey.

 

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe -- all of those guys were clear #1's when it came to scoring. Crosby has always been one of a group of top scorers but always far behind players like Ovechkin. 

 

If you compare, Gretzky could outscore the Ovechkin's of his time and also put up more assists than anybody else. You make a good point though. Maybe Crosby is above the Sakic's and Yzerman's but I don't think he dominates the league like Gretzky or Lemieux did. Nobody does. Maybe McDavid will be that guy. :)

 

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On 8/13/2017 at 9:49 PM, Trefilov22 said:

Crosby plays with two dead-weight wingers.

 

On 8/13/2017 at 10:51 PM, WordsOfWisdom said:

Maybe Crosby is above the Sakic's and Yzerman's but I don't think he dominates the league like Gretzky or Lemieux did

 

  To Terfilov,

what you say is true in the context which you said it.  I don't agree that Guentzel and Hornqvist are  dead-weight wingers, but they're no Jari Kurri.   But the point for me is that as good as Guentzel and Hornqvist are, Crosby makes them vastly better than they'd otherwise be.    Gretzky obviously bloated Kurri's numbers, but Kurri was good on his own and helped Gretzky's numbers.

 

Wow:

I don't put Sakic or Yzerman anywhere near Crosby's stratosphere, as good as both were.   Sakic did win a Hart Trophy (shockingly, Yzerman never did), but neither won a Ross.   Crosby has 2 of each.     Crosby & Yzerman have 3 cups. Yzerman was 37 when he won his 3rd.  Crosby is only 30.  Sakic won two.   Not taking anything away from either player, but Crosby is just on a different plane.    You did say he's above them, so I don't think you'll disagree with this part (maybe some parts of it, but in general we're on the same page with Crosby vs. Sakic/Yzerman).

 

But the dominates the league part.   They've won two years in a row with probably an average goalie that would be exposed on another team.   Major players have spent extended time out.  I mean, Malkin hurts himself changing his socks.  I'm not attempting to argue that Crosby has done it on his own, but I will argue that Crosby has done more to help Guentzel's game, and Sheary and Hornqvist than Gretzky probably helped Kurri.   And either one of these cup runs gets derailed if they lose Crosby.  He needs to do it longer, but I actually think he has dominated the last two years.  If he's able to continue that for another couple, I think the conversation has to be revisited.  He's not there yet, in my estimation.   And McDavid may actually pass him.

 

I'd be interested in seeing the alternate universe where Crosby didn't suffer his concussions.  I wonder how many banners are in Pittsburgh.  I wonder how many banners if that's the same universe where Lemieux didn't have his health issues.

 

I'm not attempting to put Crosby on the same level as Gretzky, in particular.  I remember especially in the early-mid 80s that there was almost a halo over him and "Gretzky's coming to town!" when the Oilers were visiting.  I remember it was really a big deal when very early in Hextall's rookie season he stopped him on a cold breakaway.  Hextall was the second coming for 20 minutes or so.

 

I don't see that with Crosby.  I think partially because we're a bit more sophisticated and jaded now, but also because he's not quite that level.

 

He's closer to the very next tier that, for me, includes Lemieux.  I'll get hate mail from some because of that separation.  Lemieux had wingers, but not what Gretzky had and yet still better than what Crosby has had.   But Lemieux and Crosby are similar in that they were responsible for making their wingers better than they'd otherwise be.   And I agree with the score vs. assists, but this year Crosby was almost even with that (44G 45A -- I didn't realize until I just looked it up).  Dominate the way Gretzky did?  No, you're right there, I think.   But I think Crosby & Lemieux are a justifiable conversation.

 

  

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