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Fanboy

Why no Canadian NHL team will win the cup

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Fanboy    3

Gary Bettman who is the commissioner of the National Hockey League (NHL) was brought in 30 years ago with one agenda, and that was to grow the game of hockey in the USA.  In Canada the game of hockey is like a religion, with winters lasting 6 months all there is, is hockey.  Fans are passionate and it's the number one sport.  Football and baseball come second and third.  Unfortunately for fans in Canada, no Canadian NHL team has won the Stanley Cup for 25 years since the Montreal Canadians have won.

 

This thesis will explain why no Canadian team will win the Stanley Cup until at least 2050.

 

Gary Batman's job is to grow the game in the USA, there are currently 23 NHL teams in the USA and 7 in Canada with a new team joining for the upcoming season in the Las Vegas Golden Knights, to make that 24 American teams.

 

With expansion more and more teams have started in American cities, Ice hockey teams in Florida, Panthers and Lightning,  in the desert with Phoenix,, other warm places such as Dallas, LA, Anaheim, San Jose,  these are warm climate cities who now have ice rinks.  The people there don't really care about hockey, they are more interested in football, basketball and baseball, yet they have ice hockey teams.  Why, because Gary Bettman wants them there, because that's his #1 mission, grow the game in the USA.  The NHL is a billion dollar industry and with the USA population being 10 times larger then the Canadian population the potential for money revenue is greater in the USA even though the interest is not there.

 

Now with the weaning attendance in places like Florida and Phoenix, how do you attract more fans?  By having winning teams, nobody is going to go see a loser team if they don't really want to see a game in the first place.  So you have to create attraction, excitement, what better way then by winning, making the playoffs and winning the ultimate trophy, the Stanley Cup.  Now in Canada people will watch hockey no matter what.  In Toronto people will pay $500 per seat for a team that has not won a Stanley Cup in 50 years, yet every night the arena is sold out.  You don't need to win, people will still come, they have for 50 years.

 

In 1993 we had the chance to see the Montreal Canadians and the Toronto Maple Leafs play in the final for the Stanley Cup, now this would have been a huge loss of revenue in the USA as why would the Americans care about two Canadian teams,  Wayne Gretzky was still fresh in LA, the game was being grown in the LA market, with celebrities, Hollywood, billions of dollars on the line.

 

So what happened, in the last 5 minutes of the game between LA and Toronto,  Wayne Gretzky high sticked a Toronto player Doug Gilmour in the face, there was a cut, there was blood, in the rules that's a 5 minute automatic penalty, but guess what, it was never called,  the game ended up going into overtime and Gretzky scored the overtime winner and LA magically went on into the finals to play for the Cup.  This would also be the last year a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup.

 

Now you might say how can the NHL control the outcome of games, simple answer, the referees work for the NHL, they control the penalties, goals called back, they are the judges of the games.  They can influence a game in any direction they choose.  Take the 1999 Stanley Cup finals between Dallas and Buffalo, all season that year the rule was if any part of an offensive player is in the blue ice of the goalie crease when the puck goes into the net, the goal will be disallowed for obstruction of the goalie.  26 goals were called back in 1999 playoffs because someone's skate was in the crease, even if it was just a skate lace in the crease, no goal.  Yet the famous Stanley Cup winning goal scored by Brett Hull from Dallas that year clearly shows his whole leg in the crease while he is shoveling the puck into the net to win the cup.  The goal should have been disallowed as per the rules, yet it stood and Dallas won the cup.  The Stars coincidentally just moved to Dallas from Minnesota 5 years earlier and nobody was watching their games in hot Dallas, so what better way to attract new fans then by winning the Stanley Cup.  And who decided that, the NHL, through their referees who let the goal stand that should have been disallowed.

 

Canada has had 4 of their 7 teams in the Stanley Cup finals in the last 20 years yet none of them have won the cup

 

2004  Calgary vs Tampa, yep Tampa won

2006  Edmonton vs Carolina, yep Carolina won

2007  Ottawa vs  Anaheim,  yep Anaheim won

2011  Vancouver vs Boston , yep  Boston won

 

In 2015-2016 season, no Canadian team even made the playoffs.

 

The game still has a lot of growing in the USA, and Gary will make sure those teams are winning the Stanley Cups south of the border with Canada.  And he has his referees to make sure it happens.

 

Incidentally I predict that Las Vegas will be in the Stanley Cup finals in the next 4 years, I know it's the desert, who cares about ice and hockey, is there even an arena in Las Vegas?  But imagine the excitement of a Stanley Cup final right there in Vegas,  all the celebrities can fly down from Hollywood, you have the casinos and the main event, just like when they hold the boxing matches there.

 

I can just see the dollar signs spinning in Gary Bettman's eyes.  Way to go Gary 25 years with no Cup in Canada and 25 more to go.  Sorry Canadian citizens and fans, after all the NHL is a billion dollar business, it's all about the money, but keep cheering maybe this year Ottawa might have a shot (not).

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hf101    2,105

:welcome:

 

Great first post!  I think there is a great chance Edmonton or Toronto will win the Cup before 2050.  As for the Vegas Knights I don't see them in the finals in 4 years - 7 yeah, but 4 nope.

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Welcome to the boards, @Fanboy

 

I, like many others, like to dump on Gnome Bettman as much as the next person.

And I do think that some of his methods of running the NHL can be....questionable...to put it nicely.

 

But still, the league continues to thrive and fans are still on board, despite there being a lockout every other year (an exaggeration of course, but you get the gist), so at the very least, the Gnome is doing SOME things right.

 

Now...as for your contention he is purposely holding down Canadian teams back? Meh.....I say it's a nice conspiracy theory, but one that doesn't really hold up with a plethora of facts to back it up.

 

All those situations you mentioned with Canadian teams in the Finals who lost....well, they simply weren't the better team that series.

I honestly think it is as simple as that.

 

The Lightning and Hurricanes teams that beat the Flames and Oilers respectively those years were very dynamic, high octane teams with red hot goaltending at the time while the two Canadian teams they played were good, but ultimately, were missing a key ingredient or two that kept them just short of a Stanley Cup.

 

The Anaheim team that beat Ottawa was simply a heavy hitting, hard nosed, very complete team (it was Chris Pronger's team and boy did that team play like it) and there should be no mystery as to how and why they won.

 

Boston beating Vancouver? Ditto. The Bruins (and I really don't care for the Bruins) were simply a playoff built team from Game 1 of the regular season onward.

Vancouver had a nice mix of offense and defense, but ultimately, in my opinion, relied a bit too much on the agitation game and trying to rile up the opposing team, than on their actual hockey skill....and THAT strategy certainly didn't work against the blue collar, roughneck Bruins, who had the defensive and hard hitting style of game down to a science that season, with just enough offense and fantastic goaltending from Tim Thomas to get the job done.

 

The other examples of Dallas winning the Cup, the Gretzky high stick...simply missed calls or erroneously made calls.

Nice coincidences to back up a possible conspiracy theory, but I think they are just that: coincidences that in the grand scheme of things, don't really prove anything.

 

Season before last no Canadian based team making the playoffs?

Yes, true.

But then, NONE of the Canadian teams deserved to be in it. They just weren't good enough. Nothing behind the curtain...they were just beat out for playoff spots by more deserving and better playing teams.

 

Now, starting with last season and into this season, we see there are some promising teams that could change all that.

If they are good enough, they will not only get into the playoffs, but one of them may actually win it all.

 

If you look elsewhere on this site, you will see a thread where the NEXT Canadian based Stanley Cup winner will come from, is discussed (started by yours truly), and in there, you will see I picked the Oilers to have the honors....and that was WELL before Connor McDavid began cementing himself as one of the NHL's top tier, premier players.

 

If the Oilers can shore up the defensive side of their game a bit more, play a bit nastier while still being responsible with the PIMs, AND once they get more experience to their high end guys (all things I think they are QUITE CAPABLE of doing), then it should come as no surprise if the Oil go all the way.

 

And if they are really good enough, then not even The Gnome can do anything about it. :)

 

Again, welcome to HF.net, if you have any Q's and/or concerns, flag down a friendly mod or outstanding member, and you will be sure to get the help you need..........no Bettman conspiracies, I promise. :ahappy:

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WordsOfWisdom    827
4 hours ago, Fanboy said:

Gary Bettman who is the commissioner of the National Hockey League (NHL) was brought in 30 years ago with one agenda, and that was to grow the game of hockey in the USA.  In Canada the game of hockey is like a religion, with winters lasting 6 months all there is, is hockey.

 

Although a massive influx of European, Asian, and East Indian immigrants is beginning to shift Canada's demographic. The following sports are on the rise in Canada and growing fast:

  • Soccer (European football)
  • Cricket (more of these being built now than baseball diamonds)
  • Badminton / Tennis

The popularity of hockey in Canada is in decline and has been for quite some time. It is the most expensive sport for parents to put their kids in, and parents are choosing other (cheaper) alternatives.

 

 So Bettman may find that the sport has lost its core market if he continues to ignore Canada. 

 

4 hours ago, Fanboy said:

In Toronto people will pay $500 per seat for a team that has not won a Stanley Cup in 50 years, yet every night the arena is sold out.  You don't need to win, people will still come, they have for 50 years.

 

This more than anything is the reason why no Canadian team has won a Cup recently and won't win it ever again (unless by sheer fluke). There is no incentive to win when you've already won (financially). Unless the Canadian teams are playing in front of half-empty arenas and their very survival depends on their playoff revenue (which may happen sooner rather than later given the demographic shift mentioned above), then they're not going to win. 

 

:(

 

 

 

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jammer2    4,712
3 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Although a massive influx of European, Asian, and East Indian immigrants is beginning to shift Canada's demographic. The following sports are on the rise in Canada and growing fast:

  • Soccer (European football)
  • Cricket (more of these being built now than baseball diamonds)
  • Badminton / Tennis

The popularity of hockey in Canada is in decline and has been for quite some time. It is the most expensive sport for parents to put their kids in, and parents are choosing other (cheaper) alternatives.

 

 So Bettman may find that the sport has lost its core market if he continues to ignore Canada. 

 

 

This more than anything is the reason why no Canadian team has won a Cup recently and won't win it ever again (unless by sheer fluke). There is no incentive to win when you've already won (financially). Unless the Canadian teams are playing in front of half-empty arenas and their very survival depends on their playoff revenue (which may happen sooner rather than later given the demographic shift mentioned above), then they're not going to win. 

 

:(

 

 

 

 

 

 I know more than anyone just how many European people have moved into Canada. Windsor, in a very short time has gone from 1 or 2% Arabic population to a stunning 25-30% in just a few decades (not important, but mostly very clean, polite and hard working people BTW) .....I still can't agree Soccer is gaining that much traction in Canada...most Canadians hate Soccer, so even if some of the newcomers like it, it's not rising all *that* fast. Same with Cricket....BORING...and Tennis and Badminton...LMAO, I don't know one person that like Badminton...*maybe* playing it...there is no league, is there? 

 

 As far as no Canadian team wanting to win because the money is rolling in....that is just not true. It WAS true of the Leafs since the late 60's....but the present day Leafs care way more about winning that selling out the joint. Let's put it this way, if the Leafs won the Cup, they would sell MILLIONS and MILLIONS of jerseys, memorabilia....on and on....a cup win would mean WAY over 25 mill in pockets...probably WAY more. 

 

 Edmonton is 12-1 odds to win the cup, with an average surrounding cast around McJesus. Once they build and or draft better teammates for him, they will be WICKED and those odds will be 7-1 or better. 

 

 The Habs have Carey Price, they need to build up around him (again) but don't count them out either....or the Sens whose whole roster is playoff tested. The only really stinky Canadian team is the Canucks....and they have a top 5 prospect pool. 

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jammer2    4,712
8 hours ago, Fanboy said:

Gary Bettman who is the commissioner of the National Hockey League (NHL) was brought in 30 years ago with one agenda, and that was to grow the game of hockey in the USA.  In Canada the game of hockey is like a religion, with winters lasting 6 months all there is, is hockey.  Fans are passionate and it's the number one sport.  Football and baseball come second and third.  Unfortunately for fans in Canada, no Canadian NHL team has won the Stanley Cup for 25 years since the Montreal Canadians have won.

 

This thesis will explain why no Canadian team will win the Stanley Cup until at least 2050.

 

Gary Batman's job is to grow the game in the USA, there are currently 23 NHL teams in the USA and 7 in Canada with a new team joining for the upcoming season in the Las Vegas Golden Knights, to make that 24 American teams.

 

With expansion more and more teams have started in American cities, Ice hockey teams in Florida, Panthers and Lightning,  in the desert with Phoenix,, other warm places such as Dallas, LA, Anaheim, San Jose,  these are warm climate cities who now have ice rinks.  The people there don't really care about hockey, they are more interested in football, basketball and baseball, yet they have ice hockey teams.  Why, because Gary Bettman wants them there, because that's his #1 mission, grow the game in the USA.  The NHL is a billion dollar industry and with the USA population being 10 times larger then the Canadian population the potential for money revenue is greater in the USA even though the interest is not there.

 

Now with the weaning attendance in places like Florida and Phoenix, how do you attract more fans?  By having winning teams, nobody is going to go see a loser team if they don't really want to see a game in the first place.  So you have to create attraction, excitement, what better way then by winning, making the playoffs and winning the ultimate trophy, the Stanley Cup.  Now in Canada people will watch hockey no matter what.  In Toronto people will pay $500 per seat for a team that has not won a Stanley Cup in 50 years, yet every night the arena is sold out.  You don't need to win, people will still come, they have for 50 years.

 

In 1993 we had the chance to see the Montreal Canadians and the Toronto Maple Leafs play in the final for the Stanley Cup, now this would have been a huge loss of revenue in the USA as why would the Americans care about two Canadian teams,  Wayne Gretzky was still fresh in LA, the game was being grown in the LA market, with celebrities, Hollywood, billions of dollars on the line.

 

So what happened, in the last 5 minutes of the game between LA and Toronto,  Wayne Gretzky high sticked a Toronto player Doug Gilmour in the face, there was a cut, there was blood, in the rules that's a 5 minute automatic penalty, but guess what, it was never called,  the game ended up going into overtime and Gretzky scored the overtime winner and LA magically went on into the finals to play for the Cup.  This would also be the last year a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup.

 

Now you might say how can the NHL control the outcome of games, simple answer, the referees work for the NHL, they control the penalties, goals called back, they are the judges of the games.  They can influence a game in any direction they choose.  Take the 1999 Stanley Cup finals between Dallas and Buffalo, all season that year the rule was if any part of an offensive player is in the blue ice of the goalie crease when the puck goes into the net, the goal will be disallowed for obstruction of the goalie.  26 goals were called back in 1999 playoffs because someone's skate was in the crease, even if it was just a skate lace in the crease, no goal.  Yet the famous Stanley Cup winning goal scored by Brett Hull from Dallas that year clearly shows his whole leg in the crease while he is shoveling the puck into the net to win the cup.  The goal should have been disallowed as per the rules, yet it stood and Dallas won the cup.  The Stars coincidentally just moved to Dallas from Minnesota 5 years earlier and nobody was watching their games in hot Dallas, so what better way to attract new fans then by winning the Stanley Cup.  And who decided that, the NHL, through their referees who let the goal stand that should have been disallowed.

 

Canada has had 4 of their 7 teams in the Stanley Cup finals in the last 20 years yet none of them have won the cup

 

2004  Calgary vs Tampa, yep Tampa won

2006  Edmonton vs Carolina, yep Carolina won

2007  Ottawa vs  Anaheim,  yep Anaheim won

2011  Vancouver vs Boston , yep  Boston won

 

In 2015-2016 season, no Canadian team even made the playoffs.

 

The game still has a lot of growing in the USA, and Gary will make sure those teams are winning the Stanley Cups south of the border with Canada.  And he has his referees to make sure it happens.

 

Incidentally I predict that Las Vegas will be in the Stanley Cup finals in the next 4 years, I know it's the desert, who cares about ice and hockey, is there even an arena in Las Vegas?  But imagine the excitement of a Stanley Cup final right there in Vegas,  all the celebrities can fly down from Hollywood, you have the casinos and the main event, just like when they hold the boxing matches there.

 

I can just see the dollar signs spinning in Gary Bettman's eyes.  Way to go Gary 25 years with no Cup in Canada and 25 more to go.  Sorry Canadian citizens and fans, after all the NHL is a billion dollar business, it's all about the money, but keep cheering maybe this year Ottawa might have a shot (not).

 

 Very nice first post, as others have said. I appreciate the thought put into it, but don't agree with it all. I can't see a league wide agenda to allow the USA teams to win, and I can't see the Refs being the lynchpin in the whole thing. As soon as a ref retired, they could blackmail Bettman or just go public....and WHAM, more than one ex ref backs up the story and not only is Gary facing jail time, but his legacy is down the toilet....and THAT is more important to him than anything to him. 

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WordsOfWisdom    827
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, jammer2 said:

I know more than anyone just how many European people have moved into Canada. Windsor, in a very short time has gone from 1 or 2% Arabic population to a stunning 25-30% in just a few decades (not important, but mostly very clean, polite and hard working people BTW) ..

 

Hopefully a quick sidetrack to the op's thread is okay... :)

 

I'm not racist or anything, but I do have some concerns with immigration:

 

  • Immigrants do bring their old culture with them when they come (which may be vastly different to what Canadians are used to). It is possible to change the culture of an entire nation by importing a new culture and replacing the existing one. To a great extent, I think that is happening here. 
  • I agree that most are hard working and polite people. I have no issues with people of other ethnicities. 
  • There is a notion that Canada is a "safe haven" where everyone in the world can flee to when they want to leave the problems of their own country behind. I just hope it doesn't move the problem here.
  • I have noticed a growing trend of racism towards white people. (Just watch anything to do with social media in 2017.)
  • White people are a global minority, and getting smaller and smaller. If you live anywhere other than Canada, Russia, Sweden, Germany, Finland, France, or Britain, then white people probably aren't the race that has the majority. There are no white people in Japan, China, Korea, Thailand, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the entire continent of Africa, the entire continent of South America, Mexico, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc....  The US demographic is what? 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 hispanic? Why don't other countries accept white people? Again, it's not a huge issue other than the question of diversity and why only countries of mostly white people are accepting of people with different racial backgrounds and not other countries. Other countries seem to want to keep to their own.

 

Again, not trying to be negative, but I think there is a valid concern that things are changing too fast and that diversity doesn't have to mean "everyone but white people". I'd be in favour of putting the brakes on immigration for awhile to let things settle. If you look at Britain, it's one of the main reasons they want out of the E.U. 

 

But I digress...  :smileyandcomputer:

Edited by WordsOfWisdom
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OccamsRazor    4,405
18 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

Welcome to the boards, @Fanboy

 

I, like many others, like to dump on Gnome Bettman as much as the next person.

And I do think that some of his methods of running the NHL can be....questionable...to put it nicely.

 

But still, the league continues to thrive and fans are still on board, despite there being a lockout every other year (an exaggeration of course, but you get the gist), so at the very least, the Gnome is doing SOME things right.

 

Now...as for your contention he is purposely holding down Canadian teams back? Meh.....I say it's a nice conspiracy theory, but one that doesn't really hold up with a plethora of facts to back it up.

 

All those situations you mentioned with Canadian teams in the Finals who lost....well, they simply weren't the better team that series.

I honestly think it is as simple as that.

 

The Lightning and Hurricanes teams that beat the Flames and Oilers respectively those years were very dynamic, high octane teams with red hot goaltending at the time while the two Canadian teams they played were good, but ultimately, were missing a key ingredient or two that kept them just short of a Stanley Cup.

 

The Anaheim team that beat Ottawa was simply a heavy hitting, hard nosed, very complete team (it was Chris Pronger's team and boy did that team play like it) and there should be no mystery as to how and why they won.

 

Boston beating Vancouver? Ditto. The Bruins (and I really don't care for the Bruins) were simply a playoff built team from Game 1 of the regular season onward.

Vancouver had a nice mix of offense and defense, but ultimately, in my opinion, relied a bit too much on the agitation game and trying to rile up the opposing team, than on their actual hockey skill....and THAT strategy certainly didn't work against the blue collar, roughneck Bruins, who had the defensive and hard hitting style of game down to a science that season, with just enough offense and fantastic goaltending from Tim Thomas to get the job done.

 

The other examples of Dallas winning the Cup, the Gretzky high stick...simply missed calls or erroneously made calls.

Nice coincidences to back up a possible conspiracy theory, but I think they are just that: coincidences that in the grand scheme of things, don't really prove anything.

 

Season before last no Canadian based team making the playoffs?

Yes, true.

But then, NONE of the Canadian teams deserved to be in it. They just weren't good enough. Nothing behind the curtain...they were just beat out for playoff spots by more deserving and better playing teams.

 

Now, starting with last season and into this season, we see there are some promising teams that could change all that.

If they are good enough, they will not only get into the playoffs, but one of them may actually win it all.

 

If you look elsewhere on this site, you will see a thread where the NEXT Canadian based Stanley Cup winner will come from, is discussed (started by yours truly), and in there, you will see I picked the Oilers to have the honors....and that was WELL before Connor McDavid began cementing himself as one of the NHL's top tier, premier players.

 

If the Oilers can shore up the defensive side of their game a bit more, play a bit nastier while still being responsible with the PIMs, AND once they get more experience to their high end guys (all things I think they are QUITE CAPABLE of doing), then it should come as no surprise if the Oil go all the way.

 

And if they are really good enough, then not even The Gnome can do anything about it. :)

 

Again, welcome to HF.net, if you have any Q's and/or concerns, flag down a friendly mod or outstanding member, and you will be sure to get the help you need..........no Bettman conspiracies, I promise. :ahappy:

 

Great post.

 

I agree.

 

As much as i hate Buttman no way there is a conspiracy to keep Canada away from a Cup.

 

They just haven't been good enough. 

 

However to this day i think the Oilers win a Cup if they don't lose Roloson that first game of the finals.

 

Can't prove it but just my honest opinion.

 

The Canadian teams have improved a lot overall i think all expect maybe Vancouver......

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nossagog    923

@Fanboy   First of all, welcome to the Hockey Forums.   It is good to have someone come and start a thread with a lot of foresight and thought as yours.   I may not agree with some of the thoughts that you have, but I can see that with the effort that you put into your OP,  thoughts and facts will trump feelings and homer googles.

 

Sarcasm mode on!!!:VeryCool:

That being said, part of your argument has revolves around the theory that Gary Bettman and the NHL has some agenda revolving around expanding the NHL in the U.S. to the detriment of teams in Canada.  Please realize that this board is mainly occupied by Flyers fans/Penguins haters.  This means that ANY conspiracy theory MUST begin with the fact that Bettman LOVES the Penguins and anything he does is simply trying to help the Penguins(NO OTHER US TEAM MATTERS), and therefore Sidney Crosby(please do not use his real name, please use Cindy as it is apparently his most accepted name on these boards), win the Stanley Cup.   All references to Regis or ANY favoritism by the national, or any media, will help your cause.

Sarcasm mode off!!!:VeryCool:

 

In seriousness though, I think your thoughts on the officiating are a bit off base, but there IS something there.  One of the things that I've had a problem with over all of the expansion is the "evening" factor of the officiating in the league.  The loosening of the clutch and grab, and the ability of lessor teams to abuse star players without recompense is rampart in the league.  Personally, I feel that this is the leagues way of ensuring that lesser teams can be competitive with teams that are more talented.  And its also led to star players, yes Crosby is one, to retaliate in ways that we don't want to see star players play.  But that's the game today. 

 

I don't really think that there is a bias against Canadian teams,  its just that with the league is becoming more even, it is that much harder to be a top level team in the NHL, and the percentages are just against the . Me being a Pens fan, the past two years have been fantastic, but I cannot explain how in this salary cap era how they did it.  It seems that it was just a "Series of fortunate events" that brought a team with some superstars and a LOT of nobody's together to win two cups.   

 

I thought a few years back the Canucks, with the Sedins, would break the Canadian freeze out, but it just didn't happen. Did the NHL expand too far in the south?  Certainly, but it was Bettman's(oh yeah, you need to call him Buttman by the way) goal to expand the game.  It was easier to expand the game in the short term in the US, and try make it work than in cities in the north that had failed(see Quebec).  

 

Anyway,  welcome to the boards.

 

 

 

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B21    1,103
Posted (edited)

@Fanboy

 

Good effort. Respectfully though - way off base.

 

On 8/11/2017 at 11:25 AM, Fanboy said:

With expansion more and more teams have started in American cities, Ice hockey teams in Florida, Panthers and Lightning,  in the desert with Phoenix,, other warm places such as Dallas, LA, Anaheim, San Jose,  these are warm climate cities who now have ice rinks.  The people there don't really care about hockey, they are more interested in football, basketball and baseball, yet they have ice hockey teams.  Why, because Gary Bettman wants them there, because that's his #1 mission, grow the game in the USA.  The NHL is a billion dollar industry and with the USA population being 10 times larger then the Canadian population the potential for money revenue is greater in the USA even though the interest is not there.

 

Remember - Gary Bettman works for the owners 9 of whom (10 if you count Mario) are Canadian. I'm sure Bettman in and of himself was in favor of expansion. So were 30 owners all of who got a cut of what is now a $500 million expansion fee. Keep in mind that along with the "southern/warmer climates" the NHL also put teams back in Ottawa, Winnipeg and Minnesota. To not try and grow the game in the warmer climates would be foolish. That is where the North American population has been shifting. The NHL tried. They also fixed a few mistakes they made (granted it took a while but still).

 

On 8/11/2017 at 8:08 PM, jammer2 said:

Now in Canada people will watch hockey no matter what. 

 

Maybe. But explain to my why Ottawa - the capital of Canada - could net sell out playoffs games against Sidney Crosby and the Penguins. 

 

As for the conspiracy theories - I think @nossagog, @jammer2 and @TropicalFruitGirl26 addressed those. 

 

At the end of the day - Bettman is a nice (and convenient) lightning rod but if your issue is with expansion you need to look at the guys (again, 9 of whom are Canadian) that Gary takes orders from.

Edited by B21
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WordsOfWisdom    827
Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2017 at 9:30 AM, B21 said:

Maybe. But explain to my why Ottawa - the capital of Canada - could net sell out playoffs games against Sidney Crosby and the Penguins. 

 

Hidden Content

    Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.

 

"Ticket prices are often mentioned. Those available, last we checked, ranged from $120-$912. Some people can understand the hike, given the importance of the games, but then went irate when Melnyk bumped parking prices 10 bucks. Why? It looks like he’s trying to empty pockets."

 

 

Edited by WordsOfWisdom

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B21    1,103
On 8/16/2017 at 7:55 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

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"Ticket prices are often mentioned. Those available, last we checked, ranged from $120-$912. Some people can understand the hike, given the importance of the games, but then went irate when Melnyk bumped parking prices 10 bucks. Why? It looks like he’s trying to empty pockets."

 

 

No excuse. I'd be willing to bet that of the 16 teams in the playoffs the Senators average ticket price was probably somewhere in the middle. It's not like Melnyk and the Senators are the only team who bumps costs of tickets and parking in the post seasons.

 

It's the NHL playoffs. In a Canadian city. Sell out. Every time.

 

 

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WordsOfWisdom    827
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, B21 said:

No excuse. I'd be willing to bet that of the 16 teams in the playoffs the Senators average ticket price was probably somewhere in the middle. It's not like Melnyk and the Senators are the only team who bumps costs of tickets and parking in the post seasons.

 

I'd love to see data on the average playoff ticket price per team. I suspect he got greedy and tried to get too much. :)

 

1 hour ago, B21 said:

It's the NHL playoffs. In a Canadian city. Sell out. Every time.

 

I think that's probably what Melnik was trying to exploit. Just because it's Canada, he thought he could charge anything. While Ottawa is the capital of Canada, it's a zero in terms of financial power and business support. Like comparing Washington to New York. Why isn't New York your capital? Why isn't Toronto our capital? Ottawa is a small town compared to Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver.  

 

There were plenty of empty seats in Detroit during the last few years of the Red Wings playoff streak, probably due to fan playoff boredom more than anything. 

 

It has taken awhile for some people to come around, but the idea that every playoff game is so much more valuable than every regular season game, despite the fact that 1/3 of the overall NHL season is playoffs (and getting longer all the time) is more PR than reality. Just because the NHL says it's more valuable doesn't mean it's more valuable. For teams that routinely make the playoffs (let's not forget ~50% of teams get in), the intrigue dies down pretty quickly. 

 

I have no doubt that MLSE cashed in with the Leafs playoff appearance this year. Cashing in on pent-up demand for playoff hockey. If it wasn't the highest average ticket price by a mile I'd be shocked.  :thinking:

Edited by WordsOfWisdom

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B21    1,103
1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I'd love to see data on the average playoff ticket price per team. I suspect he got greedy and tried to get too much. :)

 

I actually tried to find it but all I could locate was the information on the secondary market which wouldn't work here.

 

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I think that's probably what Melnik was trying to exploit. Just because it's Canada, he thought he could charge anything. While Ottawa is the capital of Canada, it's a zero in terms of financial power and business support. Like comparing Washington to New York. Why isn't New York your capital? Why isn't Toronto our capital? Ottawa is a small town compared to Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver.  

 

There were plenty of empty seats in Detroit during the last few years of the Red Wings playoff streak, probably due to fan playoff boredom more than anything. 

 

It has taken awhile for some people to come around, but the idea that every playoff game is so much more valuable than every regular season game, despite the fact that 1/3 of the overall NHL season is playoffs (and getting longer all the time) is more PR than reality. Just because the NHL says it's more valuable doesn't mean it's more valuable. For teams that routinely make the playoffs (let's not forget ~50% of teams get in), the intrigue dies down pretty quickly. 

 

I have no doubt that MLSE cashed in with the Leafs playoff appearance this year. Cashing in on pent-up demand for playoff hockey. If it wasn't the highest average ticket price by a mile I'd be shocked.  :thinking:

 

I hear you but all teams "exploit" the playoffs and charge higher prices. That's not unique to Ottawa. $10 more for parking was not the reason they didn't sell out.  I know it's not Toronto but it's still the 5th largest metropolitan area in Canada...right there with Edmonton and ahead of Winnipeg. The regular season one one thing. I'm not going to knock 15,000 showing up on a week night to see the Senators/Panthers. But the second round of the playoffs? Against Crosby? No excuse not to sell out.

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WordsOfWisdom    827
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, B21 said:

 

I actually tried to find it but all I could locate was the information on the secondary market which wouldn't work here.

 

 

I hear you but all teams "exploit" the playoffs and charge higher prices. That's not unique to Ottawa. $10 more for parking was not the reason they didn't sell out.  I know it's not Toronto but it's still the 5th largest metropolitan area in Canada...right there with Edmonton and ahead of Winnipeg. The regular season one one thing. I'm not going to knock 15,000 showing up on a week night to see the Senators/Panthers. But the second round of the playoffs? Against Crosby? No excuse not to sell out.

 

Yeah, it's puzzling. :IDunnoSmiley:

 

In my "grasping at straws effort" to defend Sens fans, the only other thing I can think of is that the Sens were not a playoff team the year before, and were not expected to be a playoff team in 2017. One could argue that it was a "fluke" playoff appearance in the NHL's weakest division by a team that hadn't won over its own fans. Maybe the fans never expected them to go anywhere? Maybe they knew it was a mirage? 

 

That's has traditionally been the issue with the NHL playoffs. You get teams that make the playoffs but that have no reasonable chance of winning anything when they get there, although parity is changing that now. There used to be a handful of teams in the NHL playoffs that were legitimate threats to win the Cup. The rest were always just a "nuisance" -- a "distraction" for the main players to dispose of. The .500 teams were "warm-ups" before the playoff "heavyweights" meet in the main event. With enough parity, soon every round will be a coin toss. 

 

Not sure if I defended Sens fans appropriately but that's all I got.  :hockey1:

Edited by WordsOfWisdom

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B21    1,103
1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Yeah, it's puzzling. :IDunnoSmiley:

 

In my "grasping at straws effort" to defend Sens fans, the only other thing I can think of is that the Sens were not a playoff team the year before, and were not expected to be a playoff team in 2017. One could argue that it was a "fluke" playoff appearance in the NHL's weakest division by a team that hadn't won over its own fans. Maybe the fans never expected them to go anywhere? Maybe they knew it was a mirage? 

 

That's has traditionally been the issue with the NHL playoffs. You get teams that make the playoffs but that have no reasonable chance of winning anything when they get there, although parity is changing that now. There used to be a handful of teams in the NHL playoffs that were legitimate threats to win the Cup. The rest were always just a "nuisance" -- a "distraction" for the main players to dispose of. The .500 teams were "warm-ups" before the playoff "heavyweights" meet in the main event. With enough parity, soon every round will be a coin toss. 

 

Not sure if I defended Sens fans appropriately but that's all I got.  :hockey1:

 

I stand corrected. It was the conference finals.  So much for the "no chance" theory. :cheers:

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WordsOfWisdom    827
5 hours ago, B21 said:

 

I stand corrected. It was the conference finals.  So much for the "no chance" theory. :cheers:

 

I got nothin'.  :dizzysmiley-1:

 

 

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NHL officiating has sometimes sucked. Sometimes egregiously so. Such as 

the "What'n the hell, 1990s hockey reffing*?!" era which includes the no-call for

Gretzky's high-stick against Gilmour! To the ref(s)... 

 

Guy(s), it ain't hard: Gilmour's face wasn't bleeding; Gretzky's stick 

swung up there; now it is bleeding. That's box or ejection time!

 

Do I think it was part of a league-wide conspiracy to prevent letting the Leafs 

advance to meet and lose to the Canadiens**? No. I have no proof of such. It 

could be a case that a ref gets starstruck or intimated, consciously or unconsciously, 

against making such a call against a superstar. If you watched the 

incredible Michael Jordan enough, the NBA's all-time

most pampered most protected player, you didn't hear a number of whistles, witness 

a couple ejections, that should have happened. But it was often a foul-calling party 

when refs saw opposing players actually getting near MJ. League-wide conspiracy there? 

Who knows. No concrete proof. Just a fair amount of WTF?! to ponder. 

 

It frustrates us sports fans when we see refs make such mistakes that it baffles 

the mind, gets some minds wondering if something sinister beyond incompetence 

or meltdown might be occurring, especially when a game's stakes are so high for 

both teams. 

 

@JR Ewing has threaded a topic about mysteries in modern NHL officiating 

that you may want to explore if you haven't already done so. Recommended!: 

 

 

* I remember watching games with my pops. We'd notice out loud all this 

ticky-tack action getting called--[That's five minutes for brushing by someone's 

shoulder!]--and brutalization--[Sorry, coach: even though your player's currently 

not moving, we can't find anything wrong with a guy leaving his skates to

execute a flying uppercut on someone]--not getting called.  

 

** That Toronto team which couldn't down the Kings in seven probably wasn't going to

beat a Montreal squad that dispatched them in five. There's also

no guarantee game six becomes a Leaf win if that outrageous no-call actually 

gets called. 

 

 

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WordsOfWisdom    827
1 hour ago, thenewestlights said:

NHL officiating has sometimes sucked. Sometimes egregiously so. Such as 

the "What'n the hell, 1990s hockey reffing*?!" era which includes the no-call for

Gretzky's high-stick against Gilmour! To the ref(s)... 

 

Guy(s), it ain't hard: Gilmour's face wasn't bleeding; Gretzky's stick 

swung up there; now it is bleeding. That's box or ejection time!

 

 

 

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B21    1,103

@thenewestlights

 

Star players have been getting preferential for over a century. It's not new to hockey. It's not new to sports in general.

 

I heard a story once about Rogers Hornsby. Not sure if you are a baseball fan but he's considered once of the greatest baseball players to ever live. Career BA of .358 second only to Ty Cobb. He was the last man to hit over .400 (.424) before Ted Williams.  As the story goes, a young rookie was facing Hornsby. He threw two pitches that he was sure were strikes. Clearly frustrated, he yelled out to the umpire, "Those were strikes!". The umpire responded, "Young man, when you throw a strike Mr. Hornsby will let you know."

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WordsOfWisdom    827
7 minutes ago, B21 said:

@thenewestlights

 

Star players have been getting preferential for over a century. It's not new to hockey. It's not new to sports in general.

 

I heard a story once about Rogers Hornsby. Not sure if you are a baseball fan but he's considered once of the greatest baseball players to ever live. Career BA of .358 second only to Ty Cobb. He was the last man to hit over .400 (.424) before Ted Williams.  As the story goes, a young rookie was facing Hornsby. He threw two pitches that he was sure were strikes. Clearly frustrated, he yelled out to the umpire, "Those were strikes!". The umpire responded, "Young man, when you throw a strike Mr. Hornsby will let you know."

 

I agree. Star players get preferential treatment in all sports. No referee on earth was going to call a high stick on Gretzky. The "safe" thing to do (in terms of covering one's own arse) is not to call anything. When in doubt (or when too cowardly), the rule of thumb with officials is to swallow the whistle. The NHL beats it into their head that refs can only decide the outcome of a game when they make a call. A non-call never affects the outcome (in the NHL's alternate universe where logic doesn't exist). :)

 

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Hockey Junkie    163

I do not think any team in Canada is currently good enough.  I suppose Edmonton would be the closest?   Calgary perhaps a live longshot?  But a real long shot indeed.  Montreal I believe is in for a long season.  Not sure how much better the Leafs will be but I have to believe they might be better than Montreal.   Vancouver is in rebuild, or at least they should be.  I am surprised nothing was done about the Sedin's?  Maybe Winnipeg will surprise us?  They could be better than we expect?

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On 8/22/2017 at 7:23 AM, B21 said:

@thenewestlights

 

Star players have been getting preferential for over a century. It's not new to hockey. It's not new to sports in general.

 

I heard a story once about Rogers Hornsby. Not sure if you are a baseball fan but he's considered once of the greatest baseball players to ever live. Career BA of .358 second only to Ty Cobb. He was the last man to hit over .400 (.424) before Ted Williams.  As the story goes, a young rookie was facing Hornsby. He threw two pitches that he was sure were strikes. Clearly frustrated, he yelled out to the umpire, "Those were strikes!". The umpire responded, "Young man, when you throw a strike Mr. Hornsby will let you know."

 

Indeed they often have. And it sucks. It's a big reason why I stopped watching 

pro basketball for so long: couldn't believe the kinds of ref favors that 

Jordan, Barkley, and others were getting. Then came new heights of flopping, 

simulation, and exaggeration--& it was a good ten or fifteen years before 

professional hoops got tolerable again. 

 

I'm a huge baseball fan but haven't heard that particular story. 

 

:toast:

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JR Ewing    1,011
On 8/22/2017 at 6:23 AM, B21 said:

@thenewestlights

 

Star players have been getting preferential for over a century. It's not new to hockey. It's not new to sports in general.

 

I heard a story once about Rogers Hornsby. Not sure if you are a baseball fan but he's considered once of the greatest baseball players to ever live. Career BA of .358 second only to Ty Cobb. He was the last man to hit over .400 (.424) before Ted Williams.  As the story goes, a young rookie was facing Hornsby. He threw two pitches that he was sure were strikes. Clearly frustrated, he yelled out to the umpire, "Those were strikes!". The umpire responded, "Young man, when you throw a strike Mr. Hornsby will let you know."

 

Rogers Hornsby made Dick Allen seem like a pleasant gentleman that really had his sh!t together.

 

 

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    • 1
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