Shot distance (Claude G. and others)

[fishbulb]

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/which-nhlers-are-best-at-getting-close-to-the-net-1.830466

 

 

Interesting article on TSN.ca linking Giroux's goal scoring struggles with his shot distances... apparently Claude takes the 'longest' shots in the league over the past few years.  Not exactly a stat to be proud of.  McDavid averages around 20 feet of distance for shot.... Giroux.. 38.  

 

I wonder if getting a few concussions slowed down Claude's net drive.  Whatever the cause, he's going to have to work on this if he wants to get back to being the player he once was.

 

 

[King Knut]

6 hours ago, fishbulb said:

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/which-nhlers-are-best-at-getting-close-to-the-net-1.830466

 

 

Interesting article on TSN.ca linking Giroux's goal scoring struggles with his shot distances... apparently Claude takes the 'longest' shots in the league over the past few years.  Not exactly a stat to be proud of.  McDavid averages around 20 feet of distance for shot.... Giroux.. 38.  

 

I wonder if getting a few concussions slowed down Claude's net drive.  Whatever the cause, he's going to have to work on this if he wants to get back to being the player he once was.

 

 

 

I was noting this in the other thread, awesome to have numbers confirmation. 

 

I think it has more to do with the general dump and chase shot from the point style they adopted early last year.  They didn't score off the rush or transition for most of the middle of the season. 

 

 

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

45 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I was noting this in the other thread, awesome to have numbers confirmation. 

 

I think it has more to do with the general dump and chase shot from the point style they adopted early last year.  They didn't score off the rush or transition for most of the middle of the season. 

 

 

 

I'd like to see a goal chart.  I think most of his goals come from the left side where he sets up on the power play, anywhere from the hash marks to the top of the circles.

[elmatus]

17 hours ago, fishbulb said:

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/which-nhlers-are-best-at-getting-close-to-the-net-1.830466

 

 

Interesting article on TSN.ca linking Giroux's goal scoring struggles with his shot distances... apparently Claude takes the 'longest' shots in the league over the past few years.  Not exactly a stat to be proud of.  McDavid averages around 20 feet of distance for shot.... Giroux.. 38.  

 

I wonder if getting a few concussions slowed down Claude's net drive.  Whatever the cause, he's going to have to work on this if he wants to get back to being the player he once was.

 

 

 

This chart doesn't do much for me. Of the close shooters on that list, there are only very few standout stars. There are just as many in the second column really. If anything, I'd say this chart proves there is far more to production than taking close shots.

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

This chart doesn't do much for me. Of the close shooters on that list, there are only very few standout stars. There are just as many in the second column really. If anything, I'd say this chart proves there is far more to production than taking close shots.

 

This chart isn't about who scores and who doesn't to me.  Inlook at it for G and only G and It's only half the necessary information. 

 

I'd like to see this chart broken down year by year for just Claude or just the Flyers. 

 

From my persoective Simmonds and Schenn are/we're the guys who manage to put goals in from closer on a lot of tip ins, rebounds and trash pick up duty.  

ive noticed and G was shooting from farther and farther away most of the past year.   

 

My hope was that it was because he knew he had to keep from getting trapped down low or fall too far behind the play because the D couldn't hold squat and the goalies couldn't buy a save at the all you can buy save outlet. 

 

Hoping this was compounded by the fact that he knew he wasn't able to skate as well due to his slow injury recovery. 

 

 

[elmatus]

4 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

This chart isn't about who scores and who doesn't to me.  Inlook at it for G and only G and It's only half the necessary information. 

 

I'd like to see this chart broken down year by year for just Claude or just the Flyers. 

 

From my persoective Simmonds and Schenn are/we're the guys who manage to put goals in from closer on a lot of tip ins, rebounds and trash pick up duty.  

ive noticed and G was shooting from farther and farther away most of the past year.   

 

My hope was that it was because he knew he had to keep from getting trapped down low or fall too far behind the play because the D couldn't hold squat and the goalies couldn't buy a save at the all you can buy save outlet. 

 

Hoping this was compounded by the fact that he knew he wasn't able to skate as well due to his slow injury recovery. 

 

 

 

I'd also be interested in seeing charts that break down scoring elements like this but are populated solely with top end producers. Another good one would be comparisons of players with similar playing styles.

 

I'm not sure how useful it is to compare Giroux to Patrick Maroon or Alex Ovechkin.

[King Knut]

So from what I can see, Claude is following a general trend of shooting farther out since Berube took over that has continued with Hakstol.  He has had season long averages of 38ft + in the past (he did used to play the point on the PP), but the last three years in particular see him drifting farther and farther away.

 

What has remained constant in that time is that regardless of where most of his SHOTS come from, most of his GOALS come from inside the dots or closer.

 

Unfortunately, this site doesn't have last year loaded yet, but it's interesting to look back and compare...

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/icetrack/?r1Id=329656&r1Year=2011&r1eventType='SHOT'%2C+'GOAL'&r1type=1&r1strength=&r2Id=329656&r2Year=2015&r2eventType='SHOT'%2C+'GOAL'&r2type=1&r2strength=#1

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I'd also be interested in seeing charts that break down scoring elements like this but are populated solely with top end producers. Another good one would be comparisons of players with similar playing styles.

 

I'm not sure how useful it is to compare Giroux to Patrick Maroon or Alex Ovechkin.

 

I honestly didn't look at any of the other names on the list (I guess I noticed Toews, but I wasn't really looking).  I care about the numbers.    This web site lets you compare players directly, but the don't have last season's numbers yet...

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/icetrack/?r1Id=329656&r1Year=2011&r1eventType='SHOT'%2C+'GOAL'&r1type=1&r1strength=&r2Id=329656&r2Year=2015&r2eventType='SHOT'%2C+'GOAL'&r2type=1&r2strength=#1

 

 

[elmatus]

27 minutes ago, King Knut said:

So from what I can see, Claude is following a general trend of shooting farther out since Berube took over that has continued with Hakstol.  He has had season long averages of 38ft + in the past (he did used to play the point on the PP), but the last three years in particular see him drifting farther and farther away.

 

What has remained constant in that time is that regardless of where most of his SHOTS come from, most of his GOALS come from inside the dots or closer.

 

Unfortunately, this site doesn't have last year loaded yet, but it's interesting to look back and compare...

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/icetrack/?r1Id=329656&r1Year=2011&r1eventType='SHOT'%2C+'GOAL'&r1type=1&r1strength=&r2Id=329656&r2Year=2015&r2eventType='SHOT'%2C+'GOAL'&r2type=1&r2strength=#1

 

I agree this type of comparison seems much more valid to me as well. Assuming G's abilities haven't changed so much over the last five years, he clearly had a harder time last year getting to the areas where he typically can produce. The shift from Lavy to Berube could very well be a main reason for this, as you say.

 

I also very much agree with you regarding the defensive corps we've had these last couple years in particular. I'm very hopeful the influx of dmen who are smarter and better skaters and passers will help relieve pressure off the offensive group having to play defense. Whether Hakstol can change his system accordingly is a different question, but I guess we'll see.

 

Along this line, I have to wonder if a switch to a less defense-first playstyle would bump Couts up a notch or two. It's obviously hard to say, but he's been the go-to defensive center on the team since he first made Malkin look like a drunken russian sailor some years back. That may just always be who is of course, but I'd still like to see him in a system where he doesn't have to be that guy 100% of the time he's on the ice.

 

Where's that McDud picture thread again?

[Howie58]

I agree with Elmatus and K-Squared; this may be a result of his decline but more likely a function of team dysfunction/style/poor player mix.  If we had more snipers and/or players who could fight in close to clear space closer to the goal, we might not see his sling shot from afar, particularly after power play face-offs. 

 

CG's play will be under multiple microscopes.  We'll get a feel sooner than later about the root of the dropoff...his "organic" problem or a mix of players and style.  I am tempted to say it is equal parts...we shall see.

 

Howie

[King Knut]

33 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I agree this type of comparison seems much more valid to me as well. Assuming G's abilities haven't changed so much over the last five years, he clearly had a harder time last year getting to the areas where he typically can produce. The shift from Lavy to Berube could very well be a main reason for this, as you say.

 

I also very much agree with you regarding the defensive corps we've had these last couple years in particular. I'm very hopeful the influx of dmen who are smarter and better skaters and passers will help relieve pressure off the offensive group having to play defense. Whether Hakstol can change his system accordingly is a different question, but I guess we'll see.

 

Along this line, I have to wonder if a switch to a less defense-first playstyle would bump Couts up a notch or two. It's obviously hard to say, but he's been the go-to defensive center on the team since he first made Malkin look like a drunken russian sailor some years back. That may just always be who is of course, but I'd still like to see him in a system where he doesn't have to be that guy 100% of the time he's on the ice.

 

Where's that McDud picture thread again?

 

There's a MacDonald Picture thread?   I gotta see this.

 

Yeah, I wonder about all this too.  The thing is that I don't see him getting much PP time this year and to score significantly better he'd not only have to play the PP, he'd have to be good at it.

 

I could see him putting in 20+ goals and 40 points at even strength if everything goes well.  But without any effective PP time, not many players can excel beyond that in this league.  

 

I keep in mind that they actually scored fairly well (2nd in the league) in the early goings last year.  And while he wasn't god awful yet, Giroux wasn't on fire then either.  It was the whole offense functioning better in transition and on the rush.   

 

But they were still a losing team because the back end was so terrible.  I desperately hope Hakstol really start holding them back because of this and not because that's what he wants every night even when the back end can hold it's own a bit better.

 

I just don't know what to make of Hakstol yet.  He does a lot of things I hate (the line juggling, the handling of the goalies, the complete inability to know when to call a G.D. timeout for instance).    But I'm not ready to call his systems crap yet.  Based on what the beginning of last year looked like, they might in face be brilliant-if and when the defense isn't completely inappropriately matched to it.  

 

Lord willing.